108 Comments so far

1. Sue on January 6, 2008 7:13 pm

   If someone feels that supplements aren’t right for them, they should just accept that there are as many different opinions about health and diet as there are people in the world. Big deal. I personally am not a supplement user but that is because I cook most of my own meals and go by the rule that the more colorful the organic veggies on the plate, the more nutrient rich the diet. But in this world today, most people are too busy to shop, prepare and even think about their food so in that case, by all means get supplements into your system.

   Secondly we have to stop beating each other up for making a living! The fact is there is nothing wrong with networking with the creators and sellers of products that we strongly support and believe in! In many instances I have been introduced to items that I found valuable in my life through affiliate marketing by people I have come to know and trust on the web. I think there is nothing wrong with endorsing something that you believe in and getting paid for that endorsement, especially if it is bringing good into the lives of those that choose to buy the product. I think of it as a commission for doing me a favor. The regular grocery stores sure aren’t doing that much.

   That whole mentality as demonstrated by Patrick is nothing more than revealing a belief system that says anyone out trying to make money is a bad person. Whatever! We all have bills to pay and I for one would rather support someone who is paying his bills by doing something he loves and at the same time serving others, than to support someone who hates what they do 40 hours a week and believes money is the root of all evil, so you must do evil to get it. It’s time that kind of belief system around money gets a broad back slap and replaced with a healthier perspective! It’s the only way we will begin to put money into the hands of those that are willing to do good with it, and take it back from those who do much less.

   More power to you Kevin! I totally appreciate you and all that you have shared with me over the past six or seven months that I have been aware of you and your business.

2. Lynn on January 7, 2008 8:39 pm

   Bravo. This is truth. Well said. Thank you!

3. On a Limb with Claudia on January 7, 2008 8:43 pm

   Good to know you’re not a guru. I don’t have to run you over!

4. Lazarita on January 7, 2008 8:54 pm

   Anger.

   It’s what turns people off.

   No wonder people stereotype vegetarians, vegans and raw foodists.

   We must not act overly defensive.

   We want to learn from others and always keep an open mind.

   Just my two cents.

5. Billy on January 7, 2008 8:55 pm

   Kevin: I am one of the 65 yoa that has followed your activities…..never knew you were a guru……….but then, I have always thought for myself and have not been a good follower. You have demonstrated that you have a purpose in your life………positive energy and positive influence and information……..allowing others to learn and make choices. How un-guru is that? Actually, it is very spiritual. You cannot reach those that cannot relate to being the best that they can be………not the rightest, greediest, richest, and indignant persons. I like you…….keep it up. The rightously indignant are the most unhappy, hateful, lost and negative individuals I have every met. They may be wealthy though. I am smiling here.

6. Primo on January 7, 2008 8:57 pm

   There are times when supplementation may be necessary to assist someone who has a grave deficiency. Patrick I don’t think you did anything wrong by your posting about supplements you find “essential.”

   Funny how people go to their doctors and never question all the prescription drugs that are prescribed. Someone’s getting paid for those, right?

   Keep up the good work Patrick…

7. Allen on January 7, 2008 8:58 pm

   1) Finding the best supplements takes time and energy, its so much easer to take cues from someone who knows more than I do.

   2) In most peoples diets, even if they eat truly healthily, there may be some “missing spots” where supplements can help. I think this sums it up. Quote: “…for most people they can’t fit everything into their diet, so for most people supplements are in fact helpful–which I think even for the most healthful… they can help as well.”

   3) The dog can chase its tail for only so long before it gets tired. Ego is like chasing your tail.

8. Joyce on January 7, 2008 9:03 pm

   What a tempest in a teapot!

   We are each responsible for our own health and well-being.

   As it happened, I was very pleased with Kevin’s recent article pointing out the kyolic aged garlic. I investigated further and then I bought it from my local health food shop - so Kevin didn’t make a cent, yet he provided me with some good information.

   I’m happy to find an alternative to the “aspirin-a-day” protocol to thin my blood. When an episode of atrial fibrillation strikes, pooling blood can clot and cause a stroke. But taking an aspirin a day has rubbed against the grain for me.

   I avoid drugs, both prescription and over-the-counter. And I do feel that most supplements are a waste of money.”Let your food be your medicine and your medicine be your food.”

   But,in my opinion,(that’s the operative phrase here) there are some natural alternatives to big Pharma’s concoctions made from whole foods that serve a useful purpose.

   I read about a lot of things,and choose to investigate and explore those that make sense for me and my situation as a cancer survivor.
   Wouldn’t it be nice if everyone looked at information in that light?
   I appreciate Kevin’s non-dogmatic approach with all his advice and communications. It’s there for us to use or not, as we see fit.

   Thanks, Kevin

9. Terri Shearer on January 7, 2008 9:03 pm

   As I read both posts, it brings to mind exactly what is happening in our political process these days. America is becoming a divided country and not a united one.

   We are all so entrenched in our own worlds with our own beliefs that we dare not go outside our box to see what others have to say.

   I believe that overall nutrition is quite important. Whether one uses supplements or not - don’t you think that should be the decision of that individual? Don’t you think that someone who takes the time to learn about health should also be able to determine if they are consuming enough natural foods with enough vitamins each day? If yes, then they definitely don’t need supplements. If no, then perhaps a supplement won’t hurt.

   In my line of business which is dedicated to helping people care for their loved ones at home versus a nursing home or other long term care facility, there are many different ways to go about this care. I feel it is my duty to cover many of the bases and let their physicians and other qualified health professionals help make key decisions for them.

   I propose letting what is so unique about our country - Freedom - dictate our health choices as well.

   Thanks Kevin for sharing this post.

   Terri Shearer
   http://www.homehealthcarebooks.com

10. Lou on January 7, 2008 9:04 pm

    My own investigation of the human health condition was begun over 20 years ago. During this time I have come to realize, among many things, the raw foods I eat are deficient in minerals values, specifically as soils around the world have had the mineral sources (rocks) removed to protect farming equipment. I also question the overall vitamin content in farmed, including organics, veggies and fruits consumed as raw foods. I for one practice and encourage the taking of supplements to “supplement” was I consider lacking in the raw foods I eat.

11. Andrea on January 7, 2008 9:04 pm

    Thank you so much for writing that Kevin–we truly appreciate all you are doing in this world! Thank you!

    You hit the issue exactly center on. It is about getting out of being part of the problem, or at least adding fuel to that fire, and instead being creative and part of the solution.

    Everyone is perfectly entitled to their own personal opinions and practices. No two people are the same, thank goodness, and nor will their diets be.

    I feel this is all a great lesson in practicing non-judgement (which is different from discernment) and respect towards ALL others. We ALWAYS have the opportunity to step into something else, in any moment, if we choose.

    What it all comes down to at the end of the day is ultimately healing ourselves and the Earth.

    Let’s be our own best examples.

    This is our own personal journey, and it is wise to practice gratitude and appreciation for all those who add to our experience, opportunities, and knowledge along the way, whether or not we find their opinions true to our own selves.

    Live and let live. We are talking about live foods here, after all

    We have such an amazing opportunity in front of us to transform ourselves–let’s use this energy in a productive and loving way.

    This is my personal feeling–and whatever you choose to think in response is perfect for you.

    Best Wishes,

    Andrea M

12. Michelle on January 7, 2008 9:05 pm

    From one non-guru to another…amen!

    Regarding supplements…unfortunately, not everyone can prepare each meal to bring their bodies into perfect nutritional balance. I work hard to fit in my hour of physical activity each day, but between working two jobs, teaching my kids, running a business and getting physically active each day…well, it’s a challenge to prepare perfectly balanced food.

    So…supplements are the answer for me. Besides, I don’t want to find out at 65, when I’m hunched over suffering from osteoporosis, that I should have taken supplements.

    For me, the risk is too great NOT to take them.

    Besides, my husband and I see noticeable differences in our skin when we take certain supplements.

    I think we all need to be in tuned to our own bodies and what works for us.

    Keep up the terrific work Kevin.

    Michelle

13. Dana on January 7, 2008 9:05 pm

    Your response is honourable to the situation that has arisen and i too think that every opportunity in life can be one of growth, not of accusing each other but rather a coming together to share information and make our own fair choices.

    I personally dont take supplements nor believe in them, it is like looking for a miracle in a bottle. Although some supplements may help short term I would rather get all i need from the huge array of green leaves that i consume in my diet. I love the green smoothie revolution.

    Rock on brother, it takes huge strength and courage to stand up and speak out like you do and I think it is honourable.

    Warm wishes
    Dana

14. malcolm on January 7, 2008 9:06 pm

    well said everyone,
    lets be kind
    each has their own path
    if you don’t like what someone is doing, don’t support them, but don’t slander them
    i think affiliations and networking is absolutely fine and its a powerful tool to get ideas and products out there
    if kevin or anyone at his level of knowledge is recommending supplements i’m sure they are of an integrity that they are whole food not synthetic isolated nutrients which could very well be harmful
    there is no black or white
    that is why we need to be in our own integrity and responsible for ourselves and the decisions and actions we will or will not make
    we have a health revolution to undertake for all the masses
    kevin is right about our small little percentile fighting over petty issues that are above and beyond the core message we all have that the majority of our populations need
    thanks kevin

15. Chelly Snow on January 7, 2008 9:13 pm

    Right on Kevin!

    I must say that I completely agree. There’s just not enough info out there to say what is the ‘best’ diet and I’ve found that what works for me, doesn’t work for my husband and vice versa. All of our bodies are different and I think that it’s awesome that there’s so many people that are reaching out to assist others in being a healthier, more vibrant human.

    We don’t see doctors sending each other complaints like this, they understand that depending on their background, the treatment will be different. An MD will prescribe pharmaceuticals, a surgeon will cut, a chiropractor will give an adjustment and a raw foodist will show them the path to raw food. They could all be right and they could all be wrong for that person! So I believe also that we really need to be working together in this, even if it means working with doctors that prescribe pharmaceuticals, because that’s one more person that may see how looking at the body as a whole a changing diet and the way we think… and switch over and how many more people can we then impact through that?!?!

    Thanks Kevin!

16. taylor on January 7, 2008 9:14 pm

    lets call them what they really are….superfoods….why??

    because they are super and can support super beingness…

    most organic foods we are purchasing unless we are growing them in our backyard…or buying them from a local farmers market or CSA
    are not SUPER FOODS nor will they support a super healthy vital being living in today’s challaged environments and stress.

    I feel blessed that there are those like Kevin in the alternative health community who have taken it upon themselves to do the research and inquiry to seek out and make available the most vital superfoods and health giving information and saving us the time and energy and research in doing so… I am happy to pay for them, knowing they are simply the best of the best.

    With the simple addition of an organic raw greens powder in your morning smoothie….you have done a world of good for your health and over all well-being…and that’s just a greens powder….I could go on and on…

    Exploring the world of super foods is a wonderful world…with delicious incrediable health giving gifts galore…

    Thank you Kevin for being a leader in offering
    alternatives that are simple, effective and lifegiving!

17. Suz Stapler on January 7, 2008 9:15 pm

    I am studying to be a holistic nutritionist. Kevin, I appreciate that you need to make money, everyone does. I also appreciate that you don’t think of yourself as a guru. I truly don’t feel that anything you sell is outlandishly priced. Anything I feel that is too expensive or not necessary for me to have, I have the option to not participate in it.

    I feel that supplements are important. Even if you cook almost everything you eat and buy all organic food, there’s something else that you haven’t considered. You have to think about the soil. Our produce has gotten less and less nutritious over the years. So now, you almost have to eat all organic.

    For me, I buy what I feel I can afford. So can all of you.

    Kevin, please keep up all the good work you are doing. I for one, appreciate all of your messages.

18. Evelyn on January 7, 2008 9:19 pm

    You website isn’t the first place I’ve seen those supplement references and you weren’t selling the products, merely informing people who might be interested. I for one do take some supplements, but I’m very selective. As we age, our bodies become less efficient at either absorbing or manufacturing some nutrients that we need to be at our best. I see no problem with either choice (to supplement or not to supplement). Each individual’s biochemistry varies a bit within the “norm” and each of us decides for ourselves what is and isn’t needed.

    I’ll take a wonderful bit of garlic over an aspirin any day.

19. Wendy on January 7, 2008 9:19 pm

    While I agree with most of what has been written by other people who have commented, I can empathize with Patrick’s criticism.

    On the Web, we are inundated by brilliant Internet marketers who are seemingly trying to offer quality information, but are actually trying to hard sell a product. It’s easy to get frustrated when you may hold the belief that people who are trying to benefit the greater good (i.e. those in the health movement) should not be salesmen as well.

    It’s all about forming relationships of trust. I’ve been at your site long enough to trust your motives, Kevin, without begrudging you the need to earn an income. But that was something developed over time. It seems like maybe Patrick didn’t give you enough of a chance.

20. Noah on January 7, 2008 9:22 pm

    I’ve seen this attitude for years in several alternative communities. However hard a leader works, however devoted they are, however much study and research they do to educate themselves and others, there is ALWAYS someone who points to them as not enough, and therefore a traitor to the cause. The issue at hand is to show folks who are interested the many options of healthy living and eating. With the massive destruction of good food sources and soils, this is a mighty endeavor. Keep up the good work, Kevin. The complainer is just another version of the prankster in a red robe and sword.

21. Wendi on January 7, 2008 9:25 pm

    This has been coming up a lot lately. It truly is important that we see the natural health movement in a bigger way and that we all work together.

    Suppose we use the analogy of a beautiful sphere that is covered in a random pattern of colors to represent the natural health movement. Each color is part of the sphere; some colors are similar (red and pink, orange and melon, etc.) and tend to not be very different from each other. But, some colors are completely opposite (red and green) and stand out a bit when they are next to each other on the sphere. However, they are all part of the sphere and when viewed as a whole they create a beautiful texture of colors that wouldn’t be possible if the sphere was only one plain color.

    Okay, maybe that wasn’t such a great analogy, but it’s pretty obvious that we are all working for the same thing–better health for ourselves, our planet, and all the living things on the earth. Fighting and arguing doesn’t move us closer together. I think you are very clear in this message, Kevin, and I’m here to hold hands with everyone else in this movement–creating one large connected circle of love and understanding.

    Lots of love to you,

    Wendi Dee
    http://www.purejeevan.com

22. Robert McCully on January 7, 2008 9:29 pm

    Hey Kevin,

    Sure is great that you see the perfection!!!!! I happen to agree that supplements seem necessary but certainly understand the opposing views. Keep up the great work…….

    Vegan Bubba

23. bo on January 7, 2008 9:30 pm

    I believe the poster is correct in his thinking. The only person I give any creedance to is Mike Adams, the Health Ranger.

24. Joan Rodriguez on January 7, 2008 9:35 pm

    Nothing happens purely by chance… yes people sell products that they believe in. If they didn’t believe in the product, they would be hypocrites. What is wrong with having a good feeling about providing products that help people and supporting yourself and family? So what if they make money on them, we all have bills to pay. If you have a problem with people making money on products that help people, then how about if you pay their bills?! Personally, I don’t want to sell products that I don’t believe in. In fact, you can’t sell something you don’t believe in. Your customers will see it and feel it and they won’t buy from you because they will realize you don’t really believe what you are saying about your product. You have to believe in your product.

25. Carolyn Dean on January 7, 2008 9:38 pm

    You never did address the point he was trying to make. You side-stepped it completely, I think because it was valid. You keep advocating the use of supplements and just happen to sell them yourself and if we ever slick on whichever supplement you are currently pushing, we are sent directly to your company to purchase. I absoluely enjoy your emails, but he is right. Every site I go to pushes something and whatever they push, they just also happen to sell.

26. J. DeHart on January 7, 2008 9:41 pm

    I have found supplements to be necessary for me. I feel better. I would not even be able to move my knees or shoulders if not for supplements.

    I appreciate the advise/experience of others. I am not going to get it from my doctor (the other “guru”), who told me I did not need supplements, because I know for a fact that I do. I feel like the snake oil salesperson is the “other” side who says I ought to take a bunch of drugs.

    If this person feels that way, its perfectly ok, and you don’t need to defend yourself. He is right too, not perhaps with your individual motivation, but he is on the look out for not getting ripped off. It does happen, frequently. Apparently something you did or didn’t do sent up a red flag for this person.

27. George on January 7, 2008 9:41 pm

    I believe we must consume what our bodies need and will accept. I had a Vitality Analysis done and they recommended a warm diet of vegetables not raw. I’ve eaten Sunrider herbal products for almost 5 years and my body has regenerated itself, and now I have more energy and look and feel better than when I was much younger. At 69 I can work circles around the people who work for me who are barely 30. Proper nutrition and exercise keeps our bodies tuned and we have to accept responsibility for our health. Everything I’ve read from you is good for some but we have minds to make a decision wheather its right for us. Its your opinion, which everyone is entitled to. Keep up the good work!

28. Suzy Karasik on January 7, 2008 9:59 pm

    Seek union over separation

    “Beliefs separate. Loving thoughts unite.”
    – Paul Ferrini

    Our ego focuses on how we are different from the rest of the world. We connect with soul when we experience how we are the same.

    Any time you separate yourself from other people or from situations, you know your personality is in control. At such times, shift your perspective to build connection and you will move into soul.

    “As a holistic being you shatter the illusion of your separateness and reveal your connection to everything. This empowers you in a way that the ego-driven self could never contemplate.” Wayne Dyer

    I received this today from my HigherAwareness.com folks, it is always timely what they send. I was compelled to post. Your response was well done and very professional. I happen to reside on the supplement side, but am open to whatever anyone believes and always want to learn more.
    Be Blessed !

29. Terry on January 7, 2008 9:59 pm

    Everyone is right in their own mind, but that doesn’t make it right for everyone. I really enjoyed the way you handled the email Kevin,team up for the good of all. I don’t want to make anyone do anything, but thanks to you and others much like you, more and more good info is getting out to be able to make educated choices.
    Keep up the good work and thanks for being there.

30. newbie on January 7, 2008 10:07 pm

    I think both Patrick and Kevin have interesting points to make, but perhaps if each had been a little more gracious to the other, there could have been an interesting discussion rather than what appears to be an unpleasant group condemnation of someone raising an issue.

    As for myself, I’m on a journey trying to discover what I can do for myself to make me healthier and don’t know who to believe. I will probably study nutrition and/or naturopathy to make up my own mind.

    It is good to remember that when you’re not feeling well, you are a bit vulnerable. At the time when you’re least inclined to read lots of information and analyse it, turns out to be the time you need to be able to do it the most. It can make it hard trying to sort out fact from fiction.

    When researching ‘natural’ health sites there is a feeling that maybe this is the real truth vs the medical profession, but the truth is there is little regulation and anyone can say & sell almost anything. The amount of people lecturing on nutrition who have no formal training concerns me.

    I think it’s good to be able to have an open dialogue about concerns we have as health seekers. As ever, it’s the way you ask a question, not the question itself.

    I think Patrick has a valid point, I too am concerned if someone tells me something is good for me and then wants to sell it to me. (How impartial is that?) How can we be confident that that advice is in our personal best interest?

    It saddened me to read the way the response was written. What does it mean to ask Patrick to be a ‘team player’? Is he not allowed to question something that doesn’t seem right to him? I think it would have been more constructive to separate the personal concern expressed from the general issue of the marketing skills of natural health professionals.

    I hope we can all feel free to raise discussions (constructively) about anything we are concerned about with the confidence that people will respond kindly.

    I heard a phrase recently that goes something like; whatever the question is, love is always the answer.

31. Suzy Sikora on January 7, 2008 10:09 pm

    From my own experience and research, I know that in a perfect world we would NOT need to take supplements to assure good health. However, if we have any history of taking medications, eating the Standard American Diet, consuming alcohol or other recreational drugs, and exposures to stress and/or toxins in the environment… or even if we’ve simply subsisted on the foods produced by today’s large-scale conventional agricultural industries, then we are most likely deplete in some form or another. Sad, but true.

    My suggestion to Patrick would be to have a Nutritional Deficiencies analysis done by Spectracell Laboratories (http://www.spectracell.com/lab/fia5000.htm) to be sure he doesn’t have any himself (most people living in today’s world have at least a few). For the record, I make no money at all by suggesting this.

    This brings me to my next comment about making money. I completely understand where Patrick is coming from in being suspicious about anyone hawking a product that they also happen to sell. For me, it’s similar to reading a study touting the benefits of dairy, only to find that the study was funded by the dairy industry. (At least journals report that now.)
    However, I completely agree with the person who said it’s about trusting motives, and that typically requires a bit more probing. It might be a knee-jerk first response to think that anyone advocating this or that might also be making a profit from it, but this is not always the case, and I have not found it to be the case with Kevin Gianni’s information.

    I, for one, have come to respect Kevin’s opinions. I have come to trust that what he is offering is well-researched information, and he offers it with only good intentions. That he believes in something strongly enough to endorse it does not detract from the message.

    A huge Thank You to Kevin Gianni for what he’s doing, and -frankly- I appreciate it when someone in-the-know is willing to share what works for them.
    Kevin, I’m thrilled that you included your findings on supplements and that you do all that you do! Please, keep it up!

32. Nimisha Raja on January 7, 2008 10:16 pm

    I think the key here is that information is presented, and then people are free to make their own choices.

    There’s more than one road to success. I think Patrick may have meant well, and could have said the same thing in a different tone, and the message would have been completely different.

    I personally don’t believe in taking supplements on a theoretical level. But in reality, due to my uterine fibroids, I HAVE to take an iron supplement. And I take a sublingual B-12 because as a vegan, I don’t think I get adequate B-12 without it. So do what’s right for you. And by all means, express your opinion. But do it with kindness, compassion and thoughtfulness.

    I think we’re all trying to help make this world a better place. Let’s not forget to do exactly that.

    Nimisha
    Toronto, Canada

33. helen on January 7, 2008 10:34 pm

    Kevin;

    I wanted to respond to Patrick’s thoughtand wanted to know what he would do if he was told he had two months to live?Would he spend those two months arguing and debating who said what and
    why they were doing what they weredoing or would he appreciate every moment he had on this earth?!I ask this question because 10 years ago I was in a wheelchair at the age of 30 years old and given two months to live!! I had gangarene in my leg and it was travelling fast and then on top of it all I had ulcerative colitis and rheumatoid arthritis. The doctors said that if I did not take prednisone within the next two hours and then start a treatment of harsh antibiotics they would give me two months at the most to live!What would Patrick do when faced with this decision?? My decision?? No drugs whatsoever because that was why I was in that toxic state because the drugs would only deplete my
    immune system which is the most important thing in recovering so what to do. I knew the body can and will heal itself if fed with whole food
    supplements and that is exactly what I did. I started taking Sunrider whole food supplements which what it does is it firsts cleanses the body then rebuilds the body and then the body can heal itself. With these supplements my gangarene was cleared up in 7 weeks my ulcerative colitis was cleared up in 4 months and my arthrits cleared up in one year and now 10 years later I am still on the products and completely healed with no side effects and people who see me now have no idea that I was once in a wheelchair because of the vitality and clarity and vibrant energy I portray.. How each one of us treats our body is a matter of choice. We can choose to have quality life or choose to be sickly majority of our time on earth..

    Helen

34. Anja on January 7, 2008 10:43 pm

    Kevin;

    Thank you for doing what you do!

    I have followed both of the raw summits and heard a lot of opinions from different people. One thing that I remember from the first raw summit that you hosted, is, that you always focused on staying “neutral” and providing researched information.

    Yes, you may voice your own opinion and say what works for yourself but you also point out how important it is for each individual to find out and decide what personnally works for themselves. That is what I always honoured about you.

    Now a few words about Tim on Running Raw. He is a fantastic sport and a very dedicated man! I value his success and efforts a lot and his story always inspires me and helps me to stay on my path to a healthier lifestyle.

    And I have to add to this, so far all people that somehow crossed my ways since I re-connected to “experiencing raw” are inspiring beings and all of them seem to be healthy, loving and amazing people that respect their own choices and the choices that others make for themselves.

    Anyhow, a note on i.e. oregano supplements - they really work. If you don’t believe it, contact the holistic estetician that is listed under contacts on my website http://www.connectwithmotion.com and ask her to send you some “before and after” pics of fungal nail infections treated with oregano oil and capsules (internally & externally) in combination with regular footcare treatments (pedicures). And no, I have neither an affiliate program in place with her, nor do I get a discount for posting this information.

    Love and light!

35. Mary Martha Pazos on January 7, 2008 10:50 pm

    Kevin, I loved your approach to this situation. Instead of replying in an offended tone, you spoke of open, non-judgmental communication promoting unity and understanding, without curtailing the need for all of us to examine our differences and grow.

    On the other hand, Patrick seems to feel disillusioned about unscrupulous marketers and is probably taking out his feelings in the negative letter he writes to you.

    Whereas I have NEVER felt pushed into buying anything from you, it is true that some abusers do exist. We do need to develop a sense of discrimination to help recognize the insincere.

    Those who promote products that they believe in are entitled to a commission on sales, but Patrick is complaining about a person pretending to give an impartial evaluation of a product, when in fact he is selling it for a profit. I doubt that you did this, but this is apparently one of the things he is upset about.

    As to supplements, there is such a vast difference among them. Some are synthetic and can have a negative effect on the taker. Others should be taken under certain restrictions. And there are those that have restored health. You cannot lump supplements into one category and make a blanket statement about them.

    Thank you for opening this point up for discussion. And thank you for being you. I think you’re a fine person, and I enjoy reading your articles, even when I don’t agree with everything you say.

    It would be wonderful if we could all learn how to express ourselves in ways that are constructive and conducive to making this world a better place.

36. RawFoodGuy on January 7, 2008 10:51 pm

    I worked at the Optimum Health Institute for about 6 years, where I taught thousands of people about raw food. I worked for room and board all that time. When I moved to Florida in 1971, I hoped to continue sharing about raw food, and started giving talks at a local Wild Oats. AS word of mouth spread, every Wild Oats manager in South Florida invited me to give talks. They were, of course, free, though I had hoped to build interest in raw support groups and eventually a small income. I never had any pretensions of becoming highly paid or a “guru.” Just wanted to make enough to support doing what I did very well and loved.

    However, in 2001 it was still too soon in Florida. Although my talks were well attended for two years, I almost never saw the same face twice and never got support groups off the ground. I also was unable to generate any income at all. As a result, after many years of working hard for what I believed in so much, after making contributions to people that I know transformed lives, I was broke. I had to stop my talks and focus my energies on another career to pay the rent.

    The moral of the story is that my idealism not only didn’t pay, id undermined my ability to continue making a contribution to the raw food movement. Fortunately, I hope all that is about to change. I continued to maintain and occasionally add to my little website, http://www.RawFoodLife.com, over these years, but otherwise didn’t think of it in “business” or financial terms. It was a service I was offering to share about raw food. Then a few months ago I discovered that without my knowing it, I had created and built a site that is now one of the top sites in the raw foods community. RawFoodLife.com is number 3 or better in most Google searches on raw food subjects - something many businesses find hard to achieve when trying to. And it gets several hundred visitors every day. So I decided to completely update the site, make it look more modern and add some products. Am I selling out now? Of course not. Now I may be able to actually get back into raw food full time, something I cannot do unelss the raw foods community likes what I am doing enough to support it. People vote with their dollars. It is my most heartfelt wish that I can start writing and teaching about raw food again on a full time basis, something I haven’t been able to do for 6 years.

    Very few people can afford to make raw food their full time careers. Very few raw foodists, with the exception of a very few so-called gurus, ever make significant money doing this. We do it because we love to, we are driven to share our lifestyle, the healings we have experienced and the joy and spirit that living raw brings to our lives. We need at least a modicum of support to accomplish this. I know of no raw food leaders that think of themselves as gurus (and I have met most of the well known ones in my 12 years as a raw foodist or 40 as a vegetarian/vegan. If I make a decent living writing about raw food, selling a few worthwhile items and sharing my experiences I will consider myself a very fortunate person. If raw food authors and teachers are unable to support themselves, you will not have access to their knowledge and experience, without which the raw food movement may well dwindle and die, only to be remembered as a curious fad. Who wins then? Agribusinesses like factory factory farms, making millions by teaching the world untruths about nutrition, and in fact hiding the real facts about what they manufacture and how it destroys health? Is that what you suggest is better. The deceivers and murderers of children who import deadly, chemically corrupted foods and products from China should make plenty of dough, but not the poeple trying to make things right?

    I am not a guru. On my website and in my forthcoming book(s), YOU are the guru. I seek to support people in empowering themselves through knowledge, education and understanding. I hope that you and others find that such endeavors by me and other raw food teachers worth supporting or you may well lose it.

    Live Raw,
    Robert
    (IM: RawFoodGuy)
    http://www.RawFoodLife.com

37. Rae on January 7, 2008 10:57 pm

    Patrick brought up 2 important issues: the issue of whether supplementation is necessary (and the possibility that it may even be harmful), and the credibility of information that is being provided by someone who is also selling you something.

    I think that it was brave and appropriate for Patrick to share his perspective - and I don’t believe that it benefits anyone to shut down that feedback in the name of eliminating ‘negativity,’ or to shame him for not being a ‘team player.’

    If people within the raw movement really want to be supportive, then we all have to be willing to be self-reflective - and to not ostracize those who disagree with what we do or believe.

    In fact, Patrick brings up an issue that is really relevant to the state of the raw movement - namely that many of the people who provide information are also making their living from the sale of products.

    It makes sense that people who have changed their lives through a raw lifestyle would want to share that information with others, and also financial stability is a good thing :), so why not combine the two together? For example, why not create or import product that will help others in the ways that you were helped?

    Because it weakens the credibility of the information being provided when it is tied to the need to sell product.

    (here’s an extreme example to help illuminate my point) - for example, if doctors sold drugs as well as prescribed them, could we trust their diagnosis of our problems? could we trust their recommendation for a solution?

    It doesn’t mean that some of the information provided by the doctor wouldn’t have merit, just that we would need to be aware of the context in order to make the best use of that information.

    I’m not trying to villanize people who make money by selling raw lifestyle products - of course things are not clear cut, and so many people benefit from the information provided by Kevin and others. I am so grateful that so many people are dedicating themselves to helping others become healthier.

    I’m just suggesting that, just like any information, it’s important to understand the motivations of the writer as much as possible - isn’t this what we’re asking the general public to do in relation to pharmaceutical companies funding research? Yes, this is a different scale, and no drugs don’t actually help people to heal (unlike raw food!!!), but the principle is the same.

    What do you think?

    in peace - Rae

38. RawFoodGuy on January 7, 2008 11:12 pm

    I should add to what I already wrote that I think some people do go too far trying to turn raw food into a business. There are some people who charge several thousand dollars for a seminar on the raw food buysiness. I subscribe to some of their stuff just to see what they are doing. I don’t want to do it that way myself. But here is what I noticed.

    First, the business side of raw food has spawned numerous new website. Yes, people ARE trying to make raw food a business. That is a good thing - it spreads the word. I can’t do it all by myself, nor can the big gurus. The more the better - and to get more, it needs to be viable in the real world.

    Second, the entire internet, is filled top to bottom with people trying to make a buck, usually with little or no concern for the health and well being of their customers - and in some scenarios, just the opposite. Business is the engine that drives the internet. The power of the internet is that it can be, when uytilized properly, a level playing field because in many ways it is free and fosters so many freedoms. But it needs the negine to keep going and stay ahead of the folks who would try to control it for their own ends, from governments like CHina limiting YouTube to governments like the U.S wanting to tax Internet sales, to corporations that want to track ever click you make and sell it (called data mining) to other companiues so they can try to manipulate your buying behavior.

    So again, I have to bite my lip. I personally am a bit turned off by crass commercialism, marketing manipulation and conspicuous consumption. But I am a still a hippy from the sixties…however, after turning 60 myself I have added some pragmatism to my idealism. I hope my website, http://www.rawfoodlife.com, can set an example of how to balance all the free info I provide with a small dose of reality.

    - Robert
    (RawFoodGuy)
    http://www.RawFoodLife.com

39. Kevin Gianni on January 7, 2008 11:13 pm

    Thanks so much for all of your posts so far. I think these posts from Robert and Rae are well thought and explained.

    Remember, this site isn’t all about me

    Not even close! It’s about you as well… please keep posting.

    And I hope this doesn’t discourage anyone to post negatively about me or what I talk about. That was not my intention at all.

    Please, if you don’t like what I do, tell me! I want to hear it… I’m not perfect by any means

    (And, of course, I might open it up for discussion, but that’s what we’re here for… to learn, discuss and be better people.)

    BTW: I imagine Patrick probably unsubscribed to my list before I posted this, so he may not be here to comment on this most recent comment. If anyone knows him or thinks you might, please tell him that this is here so he can comment.

    I will send him a personal email as well.

40. Craig Pepin-Donat on January 7, 2008 11:14 pm

    What I have found over 27 years in the health and fitness industry is that no matter what you do and no matter how hard you try, there is always going to be someone that finds fault in your approach. I am extremely critical of the supplement industry in my book The Big Fat Health and Fitness Lie, but the truth is the average person (who by the way is not eating a raw diet…not by a long shot) DOES NOT get everything they need from food. In fact, with all the chemicals pumped into the food supply to enhance taste, texture, color and extend shelf life, you get more poison than you do nutrients. Then there’s the government fortification program where they try to pump synthetic nutrients back into the poison food that has been stripped of all of its nutrients from the processing. So for the real person in everyday life trying to stay healthy (this coming from someone who does NOT sell or promote supplements), I am a believer in simple supplementation and I have interviewed hundreds of professionals who concur who are also NOT selling anything. And the last time I checked, we are living in America and anyone who PROMOTES AND SELLS SOMETHING THAT THEY ACTUALLY BELIEVE WILL HELP PEOPLE AND AS A RESULT MAKES MONEY SO THEY CAN PAY THE MORTGAGE, IS NOT A BAD THING. There are plenty of jerks out there selling crap and making a ton of cash off the ignorance and insecurities of those who are trying to find answers to improve their health. Kevin Gianni is NOT one of those people. To the nit wit who wrote that little rant, why don’t you go out and write your own book and create your own website all from just an idea in your head like Kevin did. Then you can make your own rules and we’ll see how you make a living. Reality bites.

41. rod on January 7, 2008 11:23 pm

    I have always received relevant and useful information from you Kevin.

    It has assisted me with insights and a different view that usually give me the needed information to better understanding at deeper levels.

    Thanks
    Rod

42. Heidi on January 7, 2008 11:40 pm

    I think (quality) supplements are a great thing. However, I must say that I was turned off by the way that the price increase was worded. By saying, “buy now, price goes up next week”, it made me feel as though I was being taken advantage of. Perhaps if it would have been worded differently: maybe “introductory sale this week, prices go back to normal next week”, it would not have been offensive to people. I felt as though I was being purposefully gouged.
    Heidi

43. Heyward on January 7, 2008 11:41 pm

    I was getting really stressed about food and then on the conference call you said “Do the best you can with what you have and where you are.” That was the best advice I’ve ever gotten. I felt a huge rush of relief and instant calm. I went back to eating cooked foods and meat (and french fries!) but with more salads and green smoothies than I ever ate before. The more salad I eat, the less french fries I want.

    Kevin, I like how you constantly remind everyone to eat what is best for them. The one constant I have seen between you and other health food names-David Wolfe, Shazzie, Brenda Cobb, Dr. Graham and Mike Adams- is that you have all created a diet that works very well for you.

    We’ve all felt like Patrick at some point. When that happens, when we feel unhappy with you guys, it is a sign that we are not doing our work. We are not observing ourselves and our reactions to foods, because if we were, we’d have little time for anything else. Use Kevin (and co.)’s suggestions as a jump-off point and then observe yourself. Eventually, through a process of trial and error, you will be feeling so good people around you will be asking what you’re up to. You’ll have so much data you won’t know where to start. You might think to yourself, “Geez, I could fill website with this stuff…hmm…”

44. kat on January 7, 2008 11:48 pm

    I think your information is very useful. I enjoy reading your blog and getting email alerts about natural health.

45. Rawmaste on January 7, 2008 11:51 pm

    Responding to Billy’s post “The rightously indignant are the most unhappy, hateful, lost and negative individuals I have every met. They may be wealthy though. I am smiling here.”

    I measure my wealth by the health of my body, mind and relationships. I am not interested in righteous indignant wealth. I am however, interested in making a decent buck or two by passing along the best information I have learned along the way, and continue to learn. We are fortunate that we have this medium to share all of our different knowledge with each other. What an awesome and fun way to learn, not to mention meeting some fantastic people too. Imagine if we had to sit in a library and read mounds of books. I enjoy the connection that happens with the people I meet on the Internet, as well as all the great information everyone shares. I feel the best action is to take what works for you and leave the rest. And remember to share the good stuff with as many others as you can.

    I’m with ya Kevin (and you too Billy). Keep up the good work! (=^_^=)

46. Gerry Karr on January 8, 2008 12:07 am

    I too am put off by self- appointed health experts who sell the products they are recommending. These experts are promoting and are partial (not impartial.) This includes linking to a friend’s website selling the products.
    I am also offended by Kevin’s “free” information that is linked to a pay site with a special time stamped offer.

    HAPPY NEW YEAR to all, and let’s be a little more honest in 2008, OK? If you are selling, it’s fine, but don’t try to obscure it- realize we are smarter than you think, and slippery marketing practices offend us.

47. Luke on January 8, 2008 12:22 am

    Hey Patrick, You may not know that your fruits & vegetables are on supplements. My in-laws own a large farm and must supplement the soil with liquid nutrients. The plants need them to produce in otherwise depleted soil. If supplements didn’t work they wouldn’t use them. Keep in mind Jack LaLane takes over 50 supplements daily, and is very healthy at 93. I started a multi-greens supplement a few years back. I used to get sick 2-3 times per year every year with colds/flu. That no longer happens thanks to a supplement. Like anything else, there is good and bad. Lumping all supplements together in the same category is kind of like saying that all food is bad.

48. Christine on January 8, 2008 12:37 am

    Kevin, I enjoy your information so keep up the good work. It is a good thing we all have choices.

49. Laura on January 8, 2008 12:51 am

    Kevin,

    I agreed with the majority of your reply to Patrick. However, sometimes we need a little conflict in our teamwork. Not even two people can face the same direction 100 percent of the time, even if they’re both sincerely working toward the same goal, as any happy couple will tell you! If a person within a team feels they’re not allowed to speak up when they don’t agree with the rest, they end up repressing their feelings, and eventually feeling resentful. It’s better to bring up one’s differing opinion, albeit in a non-hurtful way, and work on getting the team facing forward once more. You may even finding you agree with the dissenter! Of course, that would be in a perfect world … lol

    I would also like to take a small amount of space to respond to something Rae said above. I’m not sure if you realize, Rae, how much money the pharmaceutical industry puts into getting prescribers to sell their meds for them. Every time a drug store fills your prescription, that information goes to the company that made the drug. They compile the information, and attempt to persuade doctors who are not prescribing their meds into prescribing them, or they reward doctors that do sell a lot of their meds for them. I work for a medical practice that is more scrupulous than most - our doctors dislike the system and believe that if the drug companies didn’t spend all that money on “marketing,” medicine wouldn’t cost so much. Even so, you wouldn’t believe what we get from these companies, and we refuse a lot of stuff. (I know it seems that I’ve gotten off topic - I apologize.) My point is, even the people doing their best to make us healthy obtain rewards for getting us to buy certain products.
    I’m not saying don’t buy prescription meds, or distrust your doctor, but to be aware that with every financial decision that we make every day, there someone is trying to influence where we put our money. (For a lot of people, food is the area where they choose to cut their costs. In places without easy access to farmer’s markets or co-ops, healthy food is much more expensive than processed junk.) Getting angry at someone on the internet for trying to sell you something is like getting angry at a TV network for running ads during prime time. It’s just as much your decision not to buy a product recommended on a website as it is not to order a weight-loss program from an infomercial.

    Keep up the good work, Kevin.

50. Carol Kraft on January 8, 2008 1:16 am

    I don’t see Kevin as a guru. Patrick if you were around for Raw Summit 1 you would know that Kevin presented a broad range of opinions in his interviews which reflects a person who is open minded,respectful and humble enough to let a diversity of opinions
    to exist on his site. The interviews are not about him but just getting info out.

    Having said that I get concerned about using the word “guru ” to slander or judge someone. It is like using the word “fag” or “homo” to put someone down which is a very homophobic response. People here in this site are so guruphobic that if a real, genuine
    guru (and they do exist!) passed their way they would not know it. I find that very sad.

    Keep up the good work Kevin and Patrick I hope you find the info you need free from fear so you can make clear decisions and discernments for yourself and others. Judgement of others is often based on fear.

    Carol

51. Robert Ringin on January 8, 2008 1:40 am

    Hi Kevin, thanks for giving me the info that you do so that I can make a choice as to what works for me.
    I was introduced to Herbs & Natural Therapies; in 1990; by a fellow-member of my Golf-club when he suggested that I throw away the antibiotics I was taking for an ear infection; had been on them for 8 days; & take 1500mg. of Echinacea 3 times a day, which I did, & the ear infection cured in 2 days.
    I searched the Web for info, & was amazed at what the effect of Enzymes had on the body & began eating more fruit & salads & fresh produce, but I was still feeling a little lethargic; but didn’t have the feeling of “emptiness” or the feeling that “something was lacking;” & I stopped eating the fats on meats, & with further research on the Web, I found out about what Starch does to the body, & I drastically reduced my intake of Potatoes, Rice, Pasta & anything made with White-flour.
    My enrgy levels went through the roof, & I now play golf 3 or 4 times a week & don’t notice it, whereas previously a once a week gmae would leave me very tired.
    I sup[plemnt with a small Multivit & Mineral daily along with Glucosamine [500mg daily].
    I had a Prostate problem back in 1994, & the Medicos; in their wisdom, or lack thereof; wanted to remove it.
    Once again I searched the Web & came up with a regimen of Herbs & Minerals & Oils, [ a total of 12 all up] & within 3 months my Prostate problem was resolved, & I have helped a few other guys with the same remedy also.
    I guess I should mention that I am 69 years of young [ going on 35 yrs.], & ican jog or run whenever I take the fancy & not run out of puff or collapse in a heap.
    My suggestion to Patrick is that he try a decent diet, & don’t eat fatty or starchy foods or anything made with White-flour & give it a go for 3 months & he might feel a heck of a lot better & have more tolerance towards other peoples advice & recommeendations.
    Keep well all,
    P.S. I have’nt had a cold, or been to a Medico for the past 13 years, it works.

52. Syllyb on January 8, 2008 2:05 am

    Respecting individual paths and personal truths, can we set those aside momentarily for simple Laws of Nature or facts, especially presented in ways that make us think perhaps differently than we did before. It can be enlightening…

    How about just stating that supplements are some of THEE most highly refined “foods” you can get.

    Seriously, if you haven’t considered it, maybe consider it… if Parsley or any WHOLE food is stripped of all it’s other 15 or so components so that ALL you are left with is Pharmeceutical grade Selenium, it’s been refined or fragmented. Highly refined.

    Then we can reflect on simply if we’re on the path toward or away from refined foods. Toward or away from Whole foods?

    No judgement, no opinion, just undisputable facts. The supplement has no inherent right or wrong. If we refine out either element in water, the hydrogen or the oxygen, it’s no longer water, is it? If we need water, taking in an excess of just one of the refined elements is going to be better for us and do for us what the water could not in it’s complete form???

    If you wear a size 9 shoe but a Free pair of your favorite brand was available in size 12, do you take it and wear it? You wouldn’t… MORE is not better. Yes, if you had NO shoes you may take them in that difficult circumstance. Make sense? Just think it through…

53. George on January 8, 2008 2:30 am

    Kevin- you do put yourself out as a guru.*****”Kevin Gianni is an internationally known health advocate, author, and film consultant. He has helped thousands and thousands of people in over 21 countries though online health teleseminars on living and raw food and abundance, optimum health and longevity. He is also the creator and co-author of “The Busy Person’s Fitness Solution”*******

54. Vivien Rossaak on January 8, 2008 2:31 am

    Hi, Perhaps we can invite Patrick to expand more on his beliefs? He says supplements are not necessary - what is he eating? We are lucky to find really fresh veggies and fruit for sale - but, just how organic is it? Is the certificate displayed? Anyone can grow ‘organic’ vegetables, but they are not necessarily so without proof. I also think the soil is depleted of nutrients and maybe even they are in imbalance. I believe for the very best nutrition you should grow the food yourself, and eat it within an hour of picking. It takes up to three days for a salad packet to hit a supermarket shelf - and look at all those pre-packed Avocados, they are sometimes there for more than a week. What nutrition is left? I agree that one should not go overboard with supplements, but I do think some are necessary. It all depends which country you live in and just how ‘fresh’ is fresh.

55. George on January 8, 2008 2:51 am

    Kevin- you do put yourself out as a guru.*****”Kevin Gianni is an internationally known health advocate, author, and film consultant. He has helped thousands and thousands of people in over 21 countries though online health teleseminars on living and raw food and abundance, optimum health and longevity. He is also the creator and co-author of “The Busy Person’s Fitness Solution”*******????????????????????????? What the hell is that about?
    You apparently don’t have ANY training or formal education to back up what you talk about.
    I have enjoyed some of your teleseminars and would listen to them again, but there isn’t one I’m interested in buying. Not enough hard info.
    I’m not interested in being a team player. We are all individuals and have the ability to make up our own minds RIGHT OR WRONG. We are all a bunch of bananas or health nuts– and that’s ok.
    Screw Monsanto and everybody that works for them. Your attitude is such a pansy point of view. These people have declared war on the natural world and humanity. And Kevin is whining “why can’t we all get along….” What a wimp!
    The only thing we have going for us is our ability to fight. So everyone- keep on fighting. If you can’t, pull that microchip implant out of your ass because you now know its there. At least take off your rosey glasses and see the truth.

56. slim on January 8, 2008 2:56 am

    I speed read thru the debate and comments and was wondering if we really need vitamins and minerals above and beyond what might be contained in our food supply. Not that our foods are so rich with nutrients, but from what I’ve been made to believe, there is no way that the human body can absorb dead or inert, or whatever you want to call them, nutrients from lab processed chemicals!!! My understanding is that we need to get our nutrition from whole foods.
    This is not to say that ’supplements’ cannot be beneficial. I believe there is a difference between barley grass, greens, etc and vit C, vit D, etc etc. I think that people are kidding themselves by consuming lab manufactured chemical vitamins and thinking that they are absorbing these things. But if Kevin or others wish to educate us as to which ’supplements’ may be bene