Renegade Health Radio: The China Study Examined

Monday Jul 7 | BY |
| Comments (20)


In this podcast:

  • Proof that small changes to your diet can dramatically change your genes.
  • What it is about the standard Western diet that almost universally wreaks havoc on people’s health (no matter what their genetics say)?
  • Why the China Study isn’t necessarily the end-all be-all nutritional study, and why many vegans ignore this critical element in the study.
  • The one secret for managing your health that could save you your money and your life.
  • How the most basic of conclusions taken from the China Study can be applied to any diet in the world.
  • Find out what the China Study didn’t tell you about animal protein.

Click the play button to start the podcast:


Subscribe to Renegade Health Radio on iTunes. Click here—and leave us a comment.


Kevin: Renegade Health Radio. Kevin Gianni here with Frederic Patenaude. Frederic, what’s going on, man? We’re going to rock it today.

Fredric: Yeah! I think we did an interesting topic last week on the Paleo diet and got a number of comments. Maybe some people decided to ban us and never listen to us ever again. And I do think that some people missed the point, you know? Some people said, “Well you were talking about this stuff and you don’t mention any studies.” Well, it’s a podcast. All the stuff we mention is backed by something, like by science, but we don’t have time to go into a two hour discussion talking over every point. We just want to open your mind and make you think differently about something while you’re probably washing your dishes, driving your car, jogging around the city, or whatever else people are doing when they’re listening to this podcast.

Kevin: Yeah. And you know, whether it’s backed by science or junk science, I mean, who knows anymore. We have no idea about a lot of this stuff, but we do like to open up your minds. And Fred, I think—I could be wrong—but I think a lot of people who posted some of those comments on the blog, they didn’t even listen to the podcast. That’s my guarantee, because a lot of the comments were absolutely against…almost like, kind of like we’re flying in the face of what we said, saying that oh we did this and talked about how the Paleo was bad. We didn’t say anything about that. We were just questioning some of the relevance of the philosophy behind it, really.

I mean, that’s kind of…and we were talking about a little less protein and how people take the liberty to eat, you know, suddenly it’s Paleo and now you can drink grass fed butter in your coffee. And I’m not knocking Dave Asprey on that either, but I mean like, so come on, how much of this stuff are you going to eat? I mean it’s kind of just like when you start to get off your diet, you just eat as much sugar as possible. You know that’s wrong. So now maybe you’re on your diet and you eat as much meat as possible? I mean there’s an extreme kind of behaviour going on that I think people need to really pay attention to, or else they’re just going to end up not healthy. That’s the bottom line.

Fredric: Well, we got a comment that I thought was pretty interesting. Do you want to quote it, Kevin? This is a comment from Isabelle and I think this is someone who is totally getting our podcast.

Kevin: I think so, too. So…is it Isabelle? Yeah, Isabelle. I want to thank you for putting in this conversation…adding to this conversation. So she starts with, “I think people need to understand Frederic and Kevin are touching upon topics, giving personal perspectives and opinions while not delving into the subject matter in-depth in the time allotted in the podcast.”

So yes, yes thank you! You’re amazing!

And you know, she pulls up a great point about the Paleo diet and the Paleo movement that maybe we didn’t even speak about as eloquently as this. And so I’ll read this paragraph and then we’re going to get into the topic. The other thing that she brings up that she wants us to talk about today.

She says, “What I like about the Paleo movement and any other movement, as such, is the goal toward a cleaner, healthier diet and ultimately respect for animal welfare. Albeit, indirectly, I eat grass-fed, non-factory-farmed. Any movement that embraces a more holistic approach to eating is moving in the right direction.”

Fred, can you do like a “woo-hoo?”

Fredric: Oh yeah!

Kevin: “I am glad to see the world embracing a more nutritionally sound and quality based diet. The upside is it seems everyone across the board these days can agree upon processed foods being out.”

One more “oh yeah!”

Fredric: Oh yeah!

Kevin: “And whole sourced foods being in.”

Fredric: Woo-hoo!

Kevin: There we go. I mean, what an amazing way to eloquently say exactly what we feel about this. Yes, Paleo is getting the bad out. It’s awesome. I truly think it’s what you leave out of your diet, not what you put in your diet, is what keeps you healthy.

And the respect for animal welfare—I think anyone—vegans, raw foodies, breatharians, Atkins, all of these people, anyone can agree, most people can agree that the way that we’re treating animals in a conventional way and all these types of really poor mistreatment of living creatures—I think that needs to go. We all can agree upon that. Paleo is producing information that is allowing people to understand what that actually means. So people are going to grass-fed, grass-finished—people know what grass-finished means now! Which means that the animals are not just grass-fed, but they are fed grass their entire life before they are slaughtered. I mean, that’s getting closer. It’s getting closer.

Fredric: Now the question also that she asks that I’d love to answer in this podcast is to talk a little bit about “The China Study” and other indigenous cultures that we’ve mentioned in previous podcasts.

Kevin: All right. Do you want to start with The China Study or do you want me to start with it?

Fredric: Well, yeah, start with The China Study. I think we’re not going to go into the details of The China Study, but for people who don’t know The China Study…first of all, The China Study is a study but it’s also a book by T. Colin Campbell. So those are two different things right? The book is not the study, but it’s a book that promotes a plant-based diet, a low protein, or when we say “low protein” we mean less than 10 percent of calories or somewhere in that range. And it’s based off the author’s experience with the actual China Study, being in China, and also his previous work studying nutrition, the affects of protein on animal and cancer growth and so on, which I find to be the most interesting part of the book. Not the actual China Study.

But The China Study is probably the largest nutrition study ever done on the different counties in China and how they eat and how this ultimately affects their health. So basically, the conclusions of the book, The China Study, is that animal products tend to lead to more degenerative diseases such as heart disease and cancer. I think that’s the general conclusion, but the book is about much more than this. It’s about other information, other studies that have been done, kind of converging in the direction that the author is ultimately going to.

Kevin: And for me, I’ve used The China Study as reference in the past, and at times I still do use the book as reference for evidence of eating more plants, eating less animals. I mean, it’s kind of just one of those things that make sense. I mean, the epidemiological research that is in this book and also in the actual original study is good for one example of possibly eating more plants, less meat.

I have some problems with The China Study, though. I have some problems with it. One is it is studying indigenous Chinese people, and the problem with that is that not all of us are indigenous Chinese people and we don’t have the same genes. So we’re looking at…you know, we have some of the same genes, but we don’t have all the same genes. So we’re looking at people who have adapted genetically as well as, you know, situationally, to the foods that they’re eating. So that’s important to know.

So I mean, you can’t just switch over to the diet of the Chinese as…maybe, you can’t switch over to the diet of the Chinese if you are from say, I mean, your genes are different if you’re from Northern Europe or other areas. Now someone might argue that with me, but it’s kind of one of those things where each of these cultures, when they’re living in their areas, they develop the genes and they develop the actual expression of their genes, which I mean, more specifically, for the foods that they’re eating. So their bodies adapt and then that starts to change over a period of time. So their genes do change. Some people argue that they don’t. They do. Fred, you can explain the lactose gene after I’m done. Actually, why don’t you do that now?

Fredric: Well, I want to talk a little bit…maybe I want to argue with you a tiny bit about this. I do think you’re right that the genes change based on where you live and your ancestry and so on. And like, the example you wanted me to mention is the lactose tolerance gene, which is a gene that essentially appeared in a third…currently present in a third of the world population that allows people with that gene like you and me, I guess, to digest milk, and the lactose specifically, which is the sugar in dairy products, to use it as a source of energy.

So that’s kind of proof that the human body can adapt pretty quickly in a matter of a few hundred generations to a change in their diet and so on, because people with that gene were more likely to survive when they had no other sources of nutrition.

So that being said, I think that there must be general processes by which the human being works and a diet that could work essentially, or the reasons that lead to disease, possibly the foods that lead to disease, would be similar all across the world. But just like you said, there are some differences. Some people are more sensitive to certain things. Some people, as we know, tend to get more health problems when they consume certain foods. But with the experience of an Asian diet and so on, I think it’s possible to…in fact, I know it’s possible to take a diet that is more Asian like, which is more based on, let’s say, rice and vegetables or grains and vegetables, and feed it to a Northern European person with health problems and they will recover. And also when you see people coming from those regions moving to the United States and adopting a Western diet, they do get sick.

So I think there’s something to be said to the affect that the general rich Western diet, which is rich in calories, sugar, protein and fat, leads to disease, and a diet that is low in calories overall, but more specifically, high in nutrient per calorie and probably also low in fat or lower in fat and lower in protein than the Standard American Diet, leads to better health all across the board. That’s my belief based on the research.

Kevin: Yes, I can agree with that to a certain degree just because of the fact that if someone’s unhealthy, a Northern European is unhealthy, the diet that they’re going to be eating that is Chinese is going to be not…well, the natural Chinese diet, I mean, it’s not going to be filled with processed foods by any means. It’s going to have less meat. It’s going to have less high density foods that are more difficult to digest. So yes, I can agree on that.

The other challenge I have with The China Study is that they way people present it. I think what happened is the vegan community and even the raw food community…in two ways, so the vegan community in one way and the raw food community in another way, embraced it, and then they glossed over the fact that the Chinese in this study do eat a little bit of animal protein. And depending on how many calories you eat per day, there is a percentage of calories from animal protein. And if you eat about 3,000 calories it equates to about one egg a day or every two days.

So the question is, is that one egg a day or one egg every two days significant enough to provide additional health benefits? And that’s an important question, because you know, you only eat a little bit of certain foods to have the health benefits from them. And in the case of something that has animal protein, that’s a high density nutritional food. So that does have a lot of amino acids once the protein is broken down, and it has other different vitamins as well that may be helpful or may not. I don’t know. I don’t know the answer to this, but that’s the question that I always think about when I think about The China Study and how vegans have glossed over the fact that there is animal protein in the diet. And then raw foodies suddenly assume that just because you can do high vegetable food, low protein diet, raw foodies just assume that that just translates over to eating raw foods, where the Chinese eat very little raw foods.

So I mean, you have to think about how the food is much more easily digested if it’s cooked, how raw foods are much more difficult for people to digest, particularly people who have digestive issues. I mean, you can’t just like take the science and say, “All right, well then it just applies to raw foodies, or it applies to the breatharians, so 80 percent carbon dioxide and 10 percent oxygen, 10 percent nitrogen.

Fredric: [laughs] You like to come back to the breatharians, don’t you?

Kevin: [laughs] I do, because I think it’s ridiculous. I really do. I’m sorry if you’re a breatharian and you’re listening to this. I think you’re doing something ridiculous.

Fredric: Did you want me to tell a breatharian joke before we continue?

Kevin: I do, yeah.

Fredric: So there’s a group of people that go to a breatharian restaurant, right? It’s one of those restaurants that are for breatharians. And so the server comes and…the waiter comes and asks what every person is going to get. So the first person says, “I think I’m going to have the cool arctic air.” Fine, sure, of course. And the second gets the tropical scent with ylang ylang flowers in it. So they get that. And the third person says, “You know what? Nothing for me, I’m fasting.”

That’s a pretty bad joke that I learned from David years ago.

Now that everybody has forgotten what we were talking about, let me comment on the thing you were talking about. And I do ask that question when you mention, what is the amount of protein that is healthy to eat? And if those people were eating it, doesn’t that mean something even if it’s a low amount?

I think if you look at The China Study and you look at similar studies, there seems to be a threshold above which too much animal food seems to be problematic. And that threshold is between 5 and 10 percent of total calories. So that kind of goes with what you said, like an egg on a 3,000 calorie diet. That would be less than 5 percent of total calories.

So could that be beneficial? Probably. Maybe. Who knows? But the thing that’s for sure is that I think we can put animal foods in the same category as other rich foods like nuts and seeds and so on. In the sense that they’re rich and concentrated foods. And animal foods have another particular characteristic is that they’re rich in protein and have other things that let’s say, plant foods don’t have. So, is that beneficial? Do we need that? What is the amount?

I think that if you’re sick and you’re battling disease, my opinion is you should aim at a lower amount of all of those concentrated foods and stick with the high-water-content foods, the lower-protein foods, the high-nutrient-density foods. I think that’s what most of the cleanses, most of the detox diets, most of the healing diets are doing, anyway. It just varies.

And if maybe you’re active and you’re building, maybe you need more of the concentrated foods. And I think the way that Asians are eating their meats and eating those foods is more as a condiment, whereas in the West, we tend to kind of put a big piece of steak on a plate and then that’s the center of the meal, and then we put stuff around it as condiments almost to the meat-based food that is the center of your plate. So it’s a totally different way of looking at it.

Kevin: Yeah, and you mentioned about being sick, you know, to eat less. It just depends. If you’re sick from a vegan diet, or if you’re sick from not getting enough of the nutrients, then you might need to switch and add more protein, as well. Because that’s kind of what happened to me, my own personal thing.

BUT, we’re but not knocking the vegan diet here, guys. I want to be very clear here about that. We’re not knocking raw food. We are knocking breatharianism. But, what I want to say here is, get your blood tested. And you know what? Forget it! No! Even if you’re breatharian, get your blood tested! It’s fine. I shouldn’t knock this. If you are breatharian, get your blood tested, continue to be breatharian, continue to get your blood tested, and if your results are fine, then we’ll talk. Then I’d like to hear about that. I’d like to see them and show me the results.

But here’s the thing. Do what you enjoy, right? Do what you think is healthy. Get your blood tested. Get your omega-3, get the omega-3 test, you know, that we have on the site. Do some other allergy tests, do whatever tests you want. Do a fitness test for heaven’s sake. See if you’re improving in your fitness, your heart rate is improving. And then continue to eat that way and do another blood test six months down the road. If everything’s still fine, keep doing what you’re doing. Keep doing that process and then you’ll determine if your diet’s working for you or not.

And I wish I had known that back when I started the vegan diet, because I would have seen my numbers decrease, my hormone numbers decrease. I would have seen my B-12 levels decrease, my vitamin D levels decrease, my cholesterol drop to levels that aren’t good for me, and my HDL and LDL ratio go out of whack, my pregnenolone dropping to about a seven, which is about the pregnenolone of an 85-year-old man. I would have seen all these things happening and I would have stopped before…well, I probably wouldn’t have stopped before then because I was kind of very indoctoratinated into the vegan philosophy, but I eventually…I probably would have stopped sooner and probably wouldn’t have had to rebuild as much as I had to do.

Fredric: I totally agree Kevin. I think apart from being a breatharian, there’s not that many things you can do in your diet that are definitely going to be damaging like that, but I wanted to say something about the breatharian diet. You kind of got me riled up on breatharianism, because you know, although I don’t think…in fact, I am convinced that nobody actually is a breatharian. I did meet some fake breatharians, people that claim to be breatharians, like all breatharians are fake breatharians. But they claim to live on air, right? Do you know who Willie Brooks is?

Kevin: Yes.

Fredric: Wilie Brooks called at my house in San Diego when I was living there in my early 20’s. So he wanted to talk with my friend, because he had convinced my friend to start eating burgers, right? From being a vegetarian before. And Wilie Brooks is this guy who’s like a spokesperson, we should say, for the breatharian diet. He actually owns the website, and the term might actually come from him.

But he was also caught with the quarter pounder, burgers with cheese from McDonald’s. And in his website he talks about how he found that the double quarter pounder with cheese from McDonald’s is a fifth dimension food, so it has a special base frequency. So if you’re a breatharian, you need to kind of go back into that base frequency once in awhile, and that the perfect meal to do that is the double quarter pounder with cheese from McDonald’s with diet Coke, because the diet Coke acts as a binding agent, which binds all the sugars and toxins from the meal, of course, and it is a catalyst that draws out the toxins to the digestive track and escorts them out of the body as waste.

So that’s how my friend Andrew ended up eating cheeseburgers after being a vegetarian for awhile. But you know, it’s just crazy that there are people out there sharing this information and passing it as actual truth. I don’t know what goes on in their minds.

Kevin: Here we go. “It is better to have some diet Coke in your bloodstream before starting the meditation exercise. You may drink as much as you desire of diet Coke in the 20 oz. and one-liter sizes at McDonald’s with caffeine in the plastic bottles only. The double quarter pounder with cheese meal at McDonald’s is the other part of this diet.”

Fredric: You found that online?

Kevin: Hold on! “For listeners in Europe, if you are interested, substitute the hamburger royale with cheese for the double quarter pounder with cheese and Coco-Cola Light for the diet Coke. Drink only the Coca-Cola Light.” In all caps! “And it is also acceptable to combine two quarter pounders with cheeseburgers to make one double quarter pounder if you can’t get the double quarter pounder with cheese where you live.”

Fredric: But do you know Wilie Brooks said, there was like, you can find it on YouTube, there’s like a guy who did a little film on the guy. He followed him and so on, and you can hear Wilie talking, and he’s kind of this funny crazy black dude who’s really thin, anyway. So he looks actually pretty healthy. I mean, the guy is like 70-years-old or something.

Kevin: 77.

Fredric: He looks like he’s much younger, right? And he’s very active and so on, and he apparently is a breatharian aside from, of course, diet Coke and double quarter pounder with cheese from McDonald’s.

Kevin: We should get Wilie on the show.

Fredric: Yes we should get Wilie on the show.

Kevin: And in deep respect for his work, regardless of what we think about it, you know, just not like, you know, we’re poking fun at him here, but I mean I’d like to hear what the guy has to say about this stuff.

Fredric: But there’s also a part of his website you can get a consultation with him, but the cost is a billion dollars. He’s not even kidding.

Kevin: And there are no refunds.

Fredric: No, no refunds.

Kevin: That’s what it says. No refunds in red, here.

Fredric: All right, well, that was a little bit of fun, but you brought it up Kevin. You brought up the breatharians.

Kevin: I did, I did. So anyway, Isabelle, I want to thank you for your comment. Frederic and I both want to thank you for your comment. We really feel that you’ve encapsulated kind of what we do here, and so thank you for your contribution. And I hope that you enjoyed this one. Maybe we should have touched on The China Study more than we touched on breatharianism, but I think you get the point, and I think everyone else could as well.

So thanks for listening all the way through, guys. Please put a comment up on iTunes. If you’re listening to this on iTunes, we’d appreciate your comments. It helps us stay relevant in the iTunes world so other people can hear this information, if you think other people should hear this information. Who knows, maybe you’ve now abandoned us because of our views on the Paleo diet. But anyway guys, we will talk to you next time.

Fredric: See you next week.

Kevin Gianni

Kevin Gianni is a health author, activist and blogger. He started seriously researching personal and preventative natural health therapies in 2002 when he was struck with the reality that cancer ran deep in his family and if he didn’t change the way he was living — he might go down that same path. Since then, he’s written and edited 6 books on the subject of natural health, diet and fitness. During this time, he’s constantly been humbled by what experts claim they know and what actually is true. This has led him to experiment with many diets and protocols — including vegan, raw food, fasting, medical treatments and more — to find out what is myth and what really works in the real world.

Kevin has also traveled around the world searching for the best protocols, foods, medicines and clinics around and bringing them to the readers of his blog — which is one of the most widely read natural health blogs in the world with hundreds of thousands of visitors a month from over 150 countries around the world.


Comments are closed for this post.

  1. Clancy says:

    I thought that your podcast was interesting for the most part. I have one question about your description of lactose tolerate gene. You stated that 1/3 of the human population have this lactose tolerant gene, and it was developed “quickly” in a hundred generations or so. I am just wondering about your definition of “quickly” since I would not define a hundred generation or so with the adverb “quickly”. I also would like to hear the specific basis or research for your statement about the lactose tolerant gene and its development. Thanks for sharing the info on the China Study and I am looking forward to checking out your other podcasts.

  2. mary says:

    I was hoping to learn a bit more about what your website posted as the discussion topics. I heard jokes about cheeseburgers and breatharians and some anti-China Study chatter, but no answers to the following:

    –Proof that small changes in your diet can change your genes
    –What is it that wreaks havoc on the health of those eating the standard Western diet
    –The one secret health change that can save money and your life
    –What basic conclusions of the China Study can be applied to any diet
    –What doesn’t the China Study say about animal protein

    Will these issues be discussed further at some point?

    • These are teasers, of course, but we do address all these topics! For example: What basic conclusions of the China Study can be applied to any diet: Don’t eat more than 10% of total calories from animal foods.

    • Mrs. VW says:

      Sorry, Kevin, but I have to agree with Mary. There were several questions you listed that I thought were going to be answered (Mary pointed them out), but never heard an answer. I have listened to several of your podcasts and hate to be so negative, but a lot of it seems to be like you were talking to a friend (and I realize you are friends), but not actually giving out too much relevant information; but just shooting the breeze at times. I feel like about 1/4 of the podcast was information and the rest just a waste of my time. I have listened to a lot of podcasts from different health sources and they usually stick to the topic. You both go off on tangents for several minutes, then try to get back to the topic. You need to stay more focused and you’d be a lot more meaningful to your audience. I am not trying to hurt anyone’s feelings, and I am just expressing MY opinion.

  3. Yvonne says:

    Yes, I think you should interview some Breatherians! But not crazy ones, interview somebody who is serious about the life style.

    When I lived in Cincinnati I met a group of Breatherians at a spiritual fair. I was convinced they were making fun of me, they heard I have a European accent so they thought they could get away with it. I lived at a friend’s house at that time and when I came home I told her. To my great surprise she said yes, there are such ppl, she had heard of them. I had to google the phenomenon b/c I simply did not believe it. Then later I went to a spiritual meeting where some other ppl talked about vibrating energy in the same frequency as vitamin C, using it on ppl who had tested for low vit C, and the vibration helped them get rid of the deficiency. Last year I came across a man on the Internet who does long distance energy healing, sending vibrations of vitamins and minerals to paying customers (you pay what you can afford). At that time I had been gluten free for a while but bought a bread at my local health food store which I thought was gluten free, only it wasn’t, and I got tinnitus, different sounds in my ears, drumming in one and a high pitch sound in the other ear. The energy healing stopped the tinnitus. I was ecstatic! Later I wondered if it maybe was just a coincidence, b/c I recieved the energy at the time I realized the bread was not gluten free and so I stopped eating it. After a while the high pitch sound returned to the one ear and I still have it. It is extremely irritating, difficult to fall asleep. I want to find out if I can fix it myself, so I won’t depend on the energy healer, I hate to depend on others. I am my own guinea pig, I have so many herbs and pills here that I could almost open my own store. *sigh* But anyhow, obviously energy healing works, and I think Breatherians can live on energy from the air, and on water, as they told me. I wish I could be a Breatherian! Honestly, I do, b/c I am sooo disappointed with my health results and all the different things I have tried and been basically struggling with my health my whole life.

    I became a vegetarian 20 yrs ago, then vegan, also tried raw food, now paleo… sort of… it’s mostly veggies and some animal protein and fats. I juice, make smoothies, limit fruits/berries to 1-2/day. I know the Gerson Insititute recommends flax seed oil and that’s what I take, 1 capsule/day, together with one capsule hemp oil, and 1 tbs coconut oil. I also use organic butter from grass fed cows in Irland, Kerry Gold, imported to the US. I am grain and dairy free. You would think I am the healthiest person on the planet but you would be shocked if you saw me. You could tell I am sick just from looking at me. Maybe it is b/c of the Candida I have been suffering from ever since I was forced on chemo after a cancer surgery years ago. To beat Candida is extremely difficult. I have tried all things ppl recommend on the Internet. I follow the Candida diet, eat raw saerkraut for probiotics, exclude carbohydrate rich tubers, beans, peas, lentils, all flours except almond and coconut flours. I have not tried any pharmaceuticals (Fluconazole etc), but have tried everything else.

    One thing I wonder about is fats. I now follow what neurology specialist David Perlmutter, MD, says about fats in his book Grain Brain, namely that fats are important for brain health (Alzheimers and other diseases like Parkinson). I have memory problems which I assume are caused by Candida, but can’t be sure, it could be an onset of Alzheimers (I 59 yrs old). I also have hand tremmors (Parkinson??) I have been on a low fat, high whole grain diet for decades, until 1.5 yr ago when I dropped all the freakin grains and pulses. If I have Alzheimer’s then it is b/c of the low fat diet! Maybe you can look into the fat topic? I don’t think you would want to recommend a low fat diet if you knew it is causing Alzheimer’s.

    Other than that, I enjoyed your podcast, thanks. 🙂

    • Perry says:

      Yvonne: Don’t listen to these guys foolishness about low-fat dfiets. EAT MORE FATS!!! Only good ones though: Fish oil, coconut oil, butter, and animal fats. I like olives too, but the canning probably makes the oil a bit damaged. One of my few vices I guess.

    • Hi Yvonne!

      I have lived with a person who only ate around 500 calories a day and the rest came from life force (the prana in india and the chi in china). She had a normal body weight. She said she felt that she should eat a little to ground herself……anyway that is not why i responded to you. I felt the need to tell you about the following…

      I have healed crohns disease without any change in diet just by integration of deep unconscious emotions. The result of integrating them results in much better health (one becomes aware that food is not the cause of bad health but more like a contributing factor and that the blockages in the feeling body are the cause), a deepend awarness (which can lead to non-duality), maturation of personality and you very clearly feel what your body wants to eat and how much. So one stops trying all the different diets and gets to know what the own body wants. The process is not easy by any means as one feels all the suppressed stuff but the results are indescribable.
      If you are interessted in this buy the book from Michael Brown called “the presence process” that is really a stone of wisdom and it has a 10 week process in it for emotional integration. Another very good book but not as good as the presence process is David Hawkins “letting go – the pathway to surrender”.

      i wish you the best

  4. joanne says:

    Thanks for all you do!

    Ran across Dr. Laurence Wilson and Ayurvedic thinking relating to food. He has many articles free on the web. Great info. One of the things that he says is that the time period before the Aquarian Age, The Picean Age was a very Yang energy so to eat vegetarian was a very healthy thing. The Aquarian AGe is a very Yin astrological energy that is with us all the time and that you need to eat Yang foods to be healthy. He said that most diseases he sees today are Yang deficient or too much Yin. He would be great to interview and/or discuss.

    Don’t forget the Expressive ARts for healing as well as food!!

    Thanks again. Joanne 941-773-7220

  5. Perry says:

    Saying that you’re against calorie-dense foods like meat is the equivalent to saying that you are against $100 bills because they are worth more than $5, $10, and $20. Illogical.

    Why do you guys want to live so long eating your boring food? 100 years of suck food? You gotta be kidding. i’ll take steak, ribs, and a dozen eggs please.

    • Joe says:

      Sorry Perry, but i disagree. The bill analogy is way off. If you eat 500 calories of spinach and 500 calories of SPAM, you will get 2 very different sets of nutrients.

      Plus, taste is subjective and taste buds change. For one, try telling a drunk its more interesting being sober… his answer is obvious, but does that mean drinking heavily is good for our health??

      I grew up on a farm with home reared meats…these days I couldn’t be happier with a plant strong diet. Nothing like half a water melon on a hot day.

      When I was a kids, my favorite thing in the world was milk and coco pops. Well, I stopped drinking that a few years right before my hayfever went away. Anyway, I had a gulp by accident the other day when I was half asleep and wondering to the fridge. (I meant to take my almond milk)… the cows milk was disgusting. I honestly was amazed at how I loved it for so many years.

      • Perry says:

        Of course those foods have different nutrients than plants. Of course spam has different nutirents than spinach. Of course quality meat has different nutrients than garbage “meat”. You say my analogy is off, and it’s not. Your entire response is flawed by using a healthy food (spinach) to compare to a garbage food (spam), or interjecting your personal opinion on milk and garbage grain cereal. Irrelevant. That’s not at all what my comment correlates to. Quality food is a given prerequisite, and I never advise eating anything other than that. And thus, I take issue with anyone who says that foods are not quality just BECAUSE they are denser in nutrients. ANIMAL PROTEIN AND FATS HAVE NUTRITIONAL VALUE, even though they are obviously DIFFERENT in the specific nutrients that plants offer. I never said that one replaces the other entirely. Just as $5 and $100 have different values, they both HAVE VALUE. The point is that it takes a hell of a lot more. As these guys even readily admit in their other works, many raw foodies and vegans and such don’t even eat ENOUGH calories. Thus, my point stands that these guys bash anything that is calorie-dense, like animal proteins and especially fats, and for the completely flawed reason that they are calorie-dense, NOT the types of nutrients themselves. Geez.

  6. chusmacha says:

    OK, Kevin, please fill me in on how and where to start with my blood test. I purchased the Doctor J. E Williams Blood Test Blueprint last year. I have it right here on my computer somewhere. What’s my next thing to do? I told my doctor about BTB and wanting to get my blood tested, but he never got back to me. Pretty cool how this works.

  7. Isabel says:

    Woo hoo! Yes, it’s a podcast. It’s supposed to be fun, enlightening, informative. With a little bit of renegade and rogue thrown in to make it totally awesome. That’s why I love you guys. Let’s all remember to keep our minds open. Thanks for the additional info!

  8. Joe says:

    Hi Kev and Fred!

    I have a question for you – perhaps an interesting topic for the next podcast…

    Can you give us your thoughts on Fats. (Big topic I know) but… There is a lot of confusion surrounding this…

    On the one side, Drs like Esselstyn are strongly against all oil – even olive oil. He says specifically that it causes inflammation in the endothelial lining, and he has the case studies and success stories with his heart patients.

    Dr Gregor suggests even coconut oil may not be a good idea, although also suggests that plant fats are not like animal fats.

    On the other side, Mercola, various paleo supporters, and some vegan athletes like Brendon Brazer add coconut oil, or like Mike Mahler who uses fats liberally. Some vegan diets liek that of Gabriel Cousins are very high fat. Mercola and many Paleo people really push high fats diets – even though many of the fats come from refined sources. But, some people seem to be getting positive results.

    Then there is cholesterol. essential, yes – but necessary to consume in the diet? Does it feed cancer cells?

    I’d love your thoughts on whole food fats Vs refined oils – plants fats versus animal fats – saturated fats / EFAs – and whether you think a typical plant strong diet is high enough in fats to satisfy hormonal, structural, brain needs etc.

    A lot to discuss!!

    All the best from Italy, and thanks! Joe

  9. Sonya says:

    I love your podcasts! I have my own health website, am a rigorous researcher and I love the way you share your content. Not every word we say must be backed by science: experience, observation and opinion definitely needs to be a part of the picture.

    And I must admit it: I enjoyed listening to you guys poke fun at breatharians, even though to some extent, I do believe some people might be able to live on energy, or whatever it is. To me, it’s just too easy to “not believe” when my mind can’t get around something. I am definitely curious and somewhat amused by the subject.

    I worked at a fasting clinic here in Quebec for many years and a few people came in for 21 day water fasts to try to become breatharians, by following the Jasmuheen protocol. They went through the same detox process as everyone, lost weight and finally, at the end of 21 days, decided to eat again.

    I remember reading of a guy on a FB group, on his forty something day of “breatharianism”, starting to lose his eye sight. As a fasting supervisor, I know once the fast has gone too far (body has used up most fat reserves for neoglucogenesis), the body goes into protein utilization, which is mostly stored in vital organs. At that point, the person has lost over 40% of his body weight and is in a life threatening position.

    Many who try fail and do put themselves in danger. Maybe because they are cheeseburger and coke deficient… ?!

    Get Willey Brooks on the show. Have him explain to me why cheeseburgers and Diet Coke is the way to go. If that is the recipe, it seems to me a good portion of Americans are well on their way to breatharianism.

  10. Mark l says:

    There is hardly any actual health information in this podcast episode, instead you waste time talking about A fantasy diet of breathing. You want people to subscribe and to be interested in this podcast you need to have some real substance, something that people can actually implement in their diet. thanks for trying though.

  11. Hello,

    Thanks for the podcast. I agree with Kevin about the fact you have to be careful about what to recommend in case of disease. There are two types of diseases. Diseases of excess and diseases of deficiency. If the person is unwell because of deficiency, you really wouldn’t recommend to have a detox type of diet (high in juices and veggies) but rather a diet rich in minerals and dense in nutrition like meat stocks, bone broths, meat, animal products and so on.

    For diseases of excess then the detox diet, or the gerson therapy seems to be a great protocol. But it has to be said that those protocols are not life long diets but simply to rebalance the body and rid it of toxins and excess. I also suffered from deficiency and am currently on a diet which is dense in nutrition and minerals and also high in fat and animal produts (moderate in protein although not limited and high in fats). I do however have to prepare all my food and do not use any processed foods. I’m careful about the quality of the food I buy or source it at the farm.

    All the best

  12. Satori says:

    Wiley is getting paid by McDonald’s. I’m sure of it. LOL! This was the best renegade health radio episode EVER!

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