Renegade Health Radio: Our Beef With the Paleo Diet

Monday Jun 30 | BY |
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Yes, the Paleo Diet is more popular than ever. While it has some good to offer, we think it’s totally off track in some very important ways. Today, we present you our uncensored thoughts on the Paleo Diet in the latest episode of Renegade Health Radio.

In this podcast:

  • The Paleo Diet: Is it just another fad? Could it be the Atkins Diet repackaged under a new name? 
  • How genetics really affect your health and where Paleo gets it totally wrong. 
  • The one critical mistake most Paleo eaters make that could send them to an early grave.
  • Where Paleo gets it right: the tips that can save your life! 
  • Why you never need to fall victim to diet extremes again.
  • How you can easily create the diet that works best for you (our tip that has never failed anyone who’s tried it).

Click the play button to start the podcast:

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Click here—and leave us a comment.



TRANSCRIPT

Kevin: Renegade Health Radio. Kevin Gianni here with Frederic Patenaude. Fred, how are you?

Fredric: Hey Kevin. Good, good, I’m doing extremely good. How’s everybody doing?

Kevin: [Laughs] Who are you talking to?

Fredric: The audience, the broadcast listeners.

Kevin: At the count of three everyone say, “Great!” One…two…three.

Fredric: Awesome!

Kevin: Today we’re going to talk Paleo. [In a low voice…] Paleo, I am Neanderthal, I eat meat.

Fredric: I am Mark Sisson. I make funny.

Kevin: Oh man, I did an interview with Mark Sisson. I like the guy.

Fredric: Yeah, yeah, I liked him, too.

Kevin: He was very informative. It was a good interview. I think I did that for the great health debate. Do you remember the great health debate?

Fredric: I debated Mark Sisson, but not live.

Kevin: That’s correct.

Fredric: [Laughs] It was a pre-debate.

Kevin: That was a debacle, that great health debate. I had experts calling me and telling me that they didn’t want to be next to other experts and that they didn’t want to be involved anymore. Some of them didn’t even know that they did an interview with me. I mean, it was crazy.

Fredric: So you don’t want to setup debates? We’re going to debate a little today, I guess, because we’re going to talk about Paleo.

Kevin: We are. So here’s the thing. We got to— what’s up?

Fredric: Why are we talking about Paleo, by the way?

Kevin: We’re talking about Paleo because one of our listeners wrote in and…let’s see. Susanne Elizabeth wrote in and she wanted to know a little bit about Paleo. She got the sense that maybe I was eating a little bit more Paleo than raw. And I guess that sense is somewhat true. So she wanted to know what the deal is. Like, she hears a lot about it. I’m sure you hear a lot about it. I’m sure some of you are eating a Paleo diet. And so I think we’re going to give some uncensored thoughts on it today. Would you agree, Fred?

Fredric: Oh yeah.

Kevin: All right man. Why don’t you start. What’s the deal? Paleo?

Fredric: Well, I think Paleo is a fad right now. It’s a diet, but it’s also very popular, right? I don’t necessarily disagree with some of the Paleo diets, the recommendations, but where I disagree, it’s more where it’s coming from. So sort of not necessarily the conclusions, because some of the conclusions are pretty sound, like, you should not eat certain things, you should eat more blah, blah, blah. And we’re going to get into that. But it’s more how are they getting to those conclusions. I think it’s kind of not totally…I wouldn’t say totally misguided, but I think it’s kind of misinterpreting the science of how the human body evolved and how we’re supposed to eat.

I don’t think we’re supposed to eat in a certain way because our ancestors ate that way, and now we’re supposedly not adapted to the current lifestyle that we have. It’s true. In some ways, that is true, that we’re kind of misaligned with our current environment, like with exercise and so on. But I think the way to look at diet is more to look at what we’re supposed to eat by doing tests and by doing research on what works best regardless of what people ate in the past. It could be completely different.

So that’s kind of how I approach it. But I do think that some of the Paleo ideas are true, are interesting, but I think there’s way too much of an emphasis on certain things that are not necessarily right on the money. Like the total avoidance of grains, the war against sugar in all forms. And yeah, I think there are different ways to look at. And certainly I’m not a big fan of the whole idea in general. And I think that some of it is just the same old information that’s been recycled. So it’s nothing new. It’s just now we’re wrapping it under Paleo, but eating like a diet of vegetables, fruit, no grains, and some meat is just…I mean, that’s a diet that’s been around forever. It’s not like a revolution. So that’s kind of what I think about it.

Kevin: It’s Atkins, but with like organic meats. [laughs]

Fredric: Yeah less…more of a variety of the greens and maybe more fruit and so on. But I think the gluten-free diet—not gluten-free for people that are actually intolerant to gluten, but just like grain-brain books that are specifically against grains and gluten…Wheat Belly, I think is one of them—is a disguised Paleo diet. They always eventually go into Paleo. And yeah, so let’s fight a little bit about this. What do you think Kevin?

Kevin: I was hoping I was going to be able to fight with you on this one, but you’re kind of coming to the same conclusions that I have. We’re not Neanderthals anymore and it’s foolish to think that we are. And it’s foolish…it’s almost like the whole supposition of the diet, or the whole like base of the diet, is that we need to go back to eating like a Neanderthal. And it’s actually kind of silly because it’s not true. We’ve evolved.

And if you look at any species of animal…and I’m researching this for my book, so it’s kind of right on the top of my consciousness right now…is you look at any species of animal, particularly animals that you can see multiple generations of—and I’m actually speaking to some breeders for the genetic chapter in the book, and breeders, they’ll say, whether they’re breeding goats or dogs or any type of animals, or pigs, some of these animals live shorter than humans. And so they’ll see generation after generation a lot faster. And also they give birth, too, and in some case they give birth to a lot more babies, particularly all at once. Some don’t, but some do. And so they see what the food that they feed the animal does not only to the animal, but also to their offspring. And it happens very fast. Particularly it could happen over a 20-year career as a breeder. You can see a lot more animals coming through and you can see the changes the food has actually…the physical changes, whether they’re fatter or shorter, weaker or stronger, you can see those changes occur right in front of your eyes.

With humans we can’t in many ways because our lifespans are much longer. We only have zero to…well some people have eight or nine or ten kids…but we don’t have that many children, and we might see their children and maybe we’re lucky enough to see their children’s children, but that’s it. So we’ve only expanded three to four generations. Where with some animals, particularly really small animals like mice or things like that, I mean you can see so many generations so fast that you can really see what food in particular can do down the chain. And how genes actually can change too.

And so our genes are much different than Neanderthal genes. And if you take a 23 and me test…I got my test back and I’m actually 2.9% Neanderthal, which I think is the 88% of Neanderthal, so that means I’m like super Neanderthal. So if there’s anyone qualified to be eating a Paleo diet, I guess maybe it’s me. At least we still exist in this world at Neanderthal status. I wonder if there’s kind of like native peoples, if there’s like some, if we could start some sort of society and it would be like, “Hey, I’m a Neanderthal. I have rights.”

But I want to look at this in a way that make sense to me and I want other people to look at this in a way that makes sense. And just saying that Neanderthals used to eat this way and this is how we should eat is incorrect.

But with that said, we do have to go back to nature. And you’re listening to this call, or this…I keep saying “call” on these! If you’re listening to this podcast—too many calls in my life—if you’re listening to this podcast, you know this stuff. You know this going back to nature. And I think Paleo in many ways becomes restrictive where it doesn’t have to be as restrictive as it is. I mean, you can eat fruit. Come on guys, it’s fruit. You can eat fruit. Maybe you don’t want to eat a ton of hybridized sugar-bomb bananas, but we can eat some fruit. We can eat some berries, it’s cool. We can eat some mangoes. We can eat some pineapples. It’s fine. Just do it and enjoy it. But we don’t need to take diet too far.

I think what happens is, Fred and I have been there, we’ve been to the extreme. We’re done with that. It doesn’t do anyone any good. It doesn’t do your friends, your family members, or yourself any good to be in that extreme stage of diet. So Paleo is cool. So is raw food. So is vegan. But when you start to take it to the extreme where you’re only including certain foods into your diet and excluding a whole bunch of them without the flexibility or the leniency on yourself, then that’s when it starts to become a problem.

So whatever diet you want, just do it, but also know that you’re not going to die if you include some of the other things that some of these dieticians or these experts or these pundits or these gurus are telling that you should never ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever eat, because I guarantee you there’s an example, someone said, besides the processed food, I guarantee you there’s an example of one of those foods being eaten by a long-lived culture. And then you say, “Well what?” Expert so-and-so says don’t ever eat salt, and then you look at the salt content of the diets of the Okinawan’s, like sea salt, the salt content of the Okinawan’s, and you’re like, “Well they eat a decent amount of salt. What’s up?” So that’s my thoughts on it.

Fredric: I like that. And I wanted to talk about something, because one thing that worries me about the Paleo diet being so popular is it’s kind of giving people like a free license to eat as much meat as possible. So it’s sort of like a disguised Atkins Diet in some way.

And I’ve seen people like in health conferences that we’ve both attended to, and they…I don’t know how these people eat on a day-to-day basis, but to me, like a meal that is a plate that has a big steak and some vegetables, I don’t think that’s a health meal to eat everyday. And even Mercola, which I don’t really agree with most of the time, but he had a very interesting article on his website this week. And it was about a warning to people following a Paleo Diet that they could be encouraging cancer growth.

So the bottom line is that a lot research is coming out that too much protein is feeding cancer by increasing levels of IGF 1 in the body, which is a hormone that increases growth. So we need it when we’re growing up, but we don’t need it so much later in life, especially if it makes cancer cells grow faster.

The research that’s turning up is not that protein is bad, but that excess protein drives cancer. So excess protein would be for most people over 100 grams a day. Something like that. So when you get above what the body actually needs, you start getting into that dangerous range. And I think if you eat animal products like…even if you eat them everyday, one of the meals, you’re not necessarily going to run into those kinds of protein levels. But people consuming a lot of whey protein, consuming meal after meal that looked a little bit like the meal that I described, a piece of steak with some vegetables, I think you’re kind of looking for trouble. I’m actually worried about it for some people following this diet, because I don’t think it’s very healthy. I don’t think it’s going to live up to the hype in the end when you see a lot of people running into health troubles, long term, doing this. So I think there are benefits, but I’m worried about this part of the Paleo Diet. What do you think Kevin?

Kevin: Well, one of the things that kind of comes off of what you just mentioned is digestion. If your digestion is poor, which I would say there’s a large percentage of the population who has poor digestion. Their gut micro biome is totally screwed up. They’ve had either chlorinated water or taken antibiotics or they’ve have some sort of trauma to their gut biome. I mean, this is going to mess up your ability to digest protein, period, whether it’s plant protein or it’s meat protein, protein from an animal source. ACL levels can be low. Digestive enzymes can be low. So that causes digestive stress that not only can cause stomachache but also can cause certain depletions. Your body’s trying to make up for the lack of minerals and things in the diet, or you’re not getting enough minerals because you’re not digesting properly. You’re not getting the amino acids because you’re not fully breaking down proteins. It could cause inflammation in the gut as well because you’re not fully digesting your food.

So like, if you have poor digestion, you’re overloading your body with animal protein, you’re in for a bad situation. I mean, that’s going to turn out bad 99.9% of time. So that’s one side of it, you got to make sure your digestion is shored up.

And the other side is, what are you doing this for? So like the question is this: Do you want to eat a lot of protein, get really strong, increase the IGF, increase the amount of hormones that are coming into your body from the animal foods? Do want to get strong and muscular and be active for a period of time, and then die young of cancer? Or do you want to go towards…that’s just a hypothetical, I’m not saying you’re going to do that, but I’m just saying that’s a hypothetical. Or do you want to live like some of these cultures that have lived the longest, some of the cultures that Fred and I have researched, some of them not so long-lived, but was up there that I’ve actually visited, the Karo in Peru.

So I mean like, if you want to live like these people and you want to have a long, healthy life that over a period of time, you’re happy and healthy and active, then you want to look at their diets and they don’t eat a lot of meat. They eat a lot of plant food. And in some cases, it could be 80-plus percent volume of their food. And the times when they do eat animal foods, they not only eat just the muscle meat, but they also eat organ meats, they also eat bone broths, some of them drink fermented milk products. So you have to kind of include that whole thing in the whole spectrum.

So if you’re just eating muscle meat, you’re just not getting it. You’re not going to the level where these long-lived cultures actually have already been and know that these are some of the things that are causing longevity.

And then finally one last point is that I definitely agree that Paleo, under the Paleo umbrella, people do take a lot of liberties. It kind of started in the West [inaudible 0:16:44.8] kind of way. It’s just like, “Oh eat as much grass fed butter as you want because it’s grass fed.” Or drink as much bone broth as you want. Or do this and do that. Eat a whole cow in six days or something like that. It’s just a joke. But you have to be very careful about that extreme because even in some of the cultures that eat meat or drink blood, like the Maasai, they don’t eat that much meat. Do you know what I mean? They don’t.

And Dr. Williams brought up a really interesting point to me when I was interviewing him for the chapter about what to eat, which is another chapter in the book. And he said what happens is that sometimes health experts or people go down to these areas where there’s long-lived cultures and then they watch them during a certain period of a season. So let’s say they come in March and all they’re eating at that time is like sweet potatoes or something like that. So now the assumption is like, “Oh man, they only eat sweet potatoes.” And I’m learning this with the Karo. Like I’ve only been there in times when they’re eating a lot of potatoes. But once summer rolls around the hillsides up in the Andes, they kind of brighten up with growth, and there are berries, and there are greens, and there are all these things that they pick for a short period of time.

And so there’s a lot of variety in their diet that you just don’t even see. So for the Karo you assume they just eat potatoes. The Okinawan’s there’s a point where 85 percent of their diet, maybe more, calories were from potatoes, sweet potatoes. And you’re like, “Wait a minute, this is Japan. I mean, don’t they eat fish and sushi and seaweeds and all that sort of stuff?” Well no, they do at certain times. And they eat through seasons. And so it’s really interesting to think about that too when you’re dealing with like this long-lived culture. So maybe when the Maasai are drinking blood, animal blood, or eating animal meat at a certain period of time, and then they’re doing other things throughout the year.

Fredric: Yeah, totally. I think we misinterpret what other cultures are doing. And like you said, the free license to do all sorts of things and call it Paleo is just to me becoming a little ridiculous right now. I mean, when I start to worry is when I see a lot of people embracing the Paleo, or it could be any diet. I was worrying when raw food started to become popular because it was like a fad and people were doing all sorts of crazy things, right?

So I think, I mean, with Paleo it’s the same thing. It’s become a little like tampered with and I see people like just being…not putting things in perspective. Avoiding every single grain of grain, and they’re not…they’re going to count the years since they’ve touched a grain of rice or any kind of grain. It’s a form of purity: “Oh, I haven’t done this.” But you look at their overall diet and yeah, it’s pretty good compared to most people. But is it necessarily better? And are you looking at some of the problems that could be caused by, like you said, too much protein and the wrong emphasis on certain things?

What do you think, finally, Kevin, about the emphasis on the “no grains” of the Paleo movement? Because I think it’s become a battle horse. It is what most Paleo people agree on, is that we… some people have a slightly different lifestyle and diet recommendations, but they all agree on no grains.

Kevin: We’ve had grains in our diet since, what now?…I mean, cultivated grains…10,000 years I guess is kind of the number that most people state. And then even before that people have eaten grains. So I mean, you kind of look…looking at it this way, I mean, that’s enough for our bodies to start to actually get used to them to some degree. So I just think it’s not true.

That doesn’t mean that…and so let me say this again. I don’t think it’s true for every individual. How about that? I think some people, they tend towards being able to process animal proteins better than others. But then also some people tend towards more vegetarian, more vegan type diets that include grains. And so to me, that in itself is kind of where I kind of like put up my flag and say, “All right.” In my diet I include grains, I include some grains. I don’t eat that much wheat. I mean, every once in a while I will. Maybe once in a while have a Craft Beer. But it makes me puffy. So I know that this is not necessarily the right combination of grain, or grain and alcohol, or whatever for me. But I can eat a little bit of rice, or I can I have a little bit of quinoa, or I can eat some of these older grains, barleys and things like that.

So for me, that’s me, personally. But again I tend to not care too much for them, and I actually tend to not crave fruit, either. But that’s me. So if I was to go out there and tell you, “Hey, this is the diet you need to eat.” I would be horribly mistaken to think that that’s a diet that everyone else needs to eat. But that’s what I found that works for me over the last 10 some odd years.

And so I urge you, and I’m sure Fred would too, to just find out what the heck works for you. Don’t put yourself under some sort of label and try to fit. I mean, I think the best example of this is…I was just talking to a long-time fan of Renegade Health and she’s become an acquaintance of ours and interviewed her for the book. And she was telling me a story about she had some acne when she started on the raw food diet and then the only thing that she can think of, because she believes that the raw food diet is so pure and so good and the right diet for her, that she’s experiencing detox symptoms. And then she tries all these new things and she still got acne. And she’s like, “Well people are telling me your body is still detoxing.”

And then two years later or three years later, and this is maybe not her story but someone else’s story, five years later, oh you’re still detoxing! And that’s BS! You’re not still detoxing. The diet isn’t working for you. Your hormones are screwed up. Your digestion is all messed up. So it’s just kind of one of these things. But she was labeling herself as the diet being purity. And Fred mentioned this before: Paleo being purity. And the reason why Paleo isn’t working it’s for two reasons. One, because you’re doing it wrong. That’s probably BS too. And then the other reason is because your body is just not adapted to it. It’s just not the right diet for you.

Fredric: And I think when people give advice about the Paleo Diet, generally it can be pretty good advice on improving your diet. Eating more fruit, eating more root vegetables versus grains and so on. All of that is awesome. But you got to take a look at your blood tests and see if you’re heading in the right direction. Because I worry a little bit about some of the Paleo people out there that are not only saying that there’s a certain diet that works and you should avoid grains, but they’re now saying like the numbers that we were told by doctors, for example cholesterol levels, well you shouldn’t worry about it. It’s become like intellectual masturbation at this point. Like they’re getting so off track with their recommendations that they’re now telling people that if their cholesterol is way off the charts that it’s actually normal. And when you look at long-lived cultures, you look at native tribes, they don’t have those cholesterol levels. So you want to make sure that you’re not developing heart disease with your diet through maybe too much saturated fat, too much of the wrong stuff.

Just like Kevin said: If it’s working for you, if you’re tracking your results, then keep doing it. There’s a lot of great advice in Paleo. I think it’s pretty cool that some of this stuff is becoming mainstream, like the diversion to eating so much dairy, which is good considering how much dairy Americans eat and how much cheese. It’s just over the top. I mean, a little here and there is okay, but we’ve gone over the top with this stuff. So I think a lot of this advice is great and the greens and so on. And yeah. So I just want to say just track your progress and don’t believe all the hype, right?

Kevin: And it’s so much more mainstream than like raw food has ever been, which is good, because there’s very similar principles in raw food as there are in Paleo. I mean even to the point where you don’t eat a lot of grains in raw food, right, I mean that’s like kind of—

Fredric: Yeah, exactly.

Kevin: They’re definitely harder to digest when they’re raw. So it’s a good thing that it’s out there. Don’t take it so seriously. Don’t take yourself so seriously. And before we go I do want to say one thing. I was at a store in Pittsburgh when I was in Pittsburgh recently, and I saw this bar. It’s a Paleo bar. And I think it’s called the Epic Bar. And so I looked at it, I’m like, “All right, whatever. What is it?” It’s like a lamb rosemary snack bar. So think like Lara Bar, but with meat. But not beef jerky. Not like hard and chewy, but actually soft and mushy. And I was like, “All right, what the heck. I might as well buy one these and see what it taste like.”

This thing was the most disgusting tasting thing I’ve ever tasted in my life. If you’re trying to do Paleo, skip the bars, have a piece of fruit, and get on with your life. Have the meat later. You don’t eat it in bar form. It was so awful. Maybe someone likes these out there, I don’t know. But man, I never throw away food and this was just like…I took one bite and just, I like literally walked over to the trash can and just dropped it in there.

Fredric: Oh you’re pretty courageous Kevin just to try that. I’m impressed.

Kevin: I’m saving everyone else out there who’s listening.

This has been Renegade Health Radio guys. Have a good one.

Kevin Gianni

Kevin Gianni is a health author, activist and blogger. He started seriously researching personal and preventative natural health therapies in 2002 when he was struck with the reality that cancer ran deep in his family and if he didn’t change the way he was living — he might go down that same path. Since then, he’s written and edited 6 books on the subject of natural health, diet and fitness. During this time, he’s constantly been humbled by what experts claim they know and what actually is true. This has led him to experiment with many diets and protocols — including vegan, raw food, fasting, medical treatments and more — to find out what is myth and what really works in the real world.

Kevin has also traveled around the world searching for the best protocols, foods, medicines and clinics around and bringing them to the readers of his blog RenegadeHealth.com — which is one of the most widely read natural health blogs in the world with hundreds of thousands of visitors a month from over 150 countries around the world.

22 COMMENTS ON THIS POST

Comments are closed for this post.

  1. Noel says:

    First, you make the claim our genetics have evolved but don’t back it up. How have we evolved? What genes have changed?

    Second, you know paleolithic man ate all kinds of fruits, plants, roots, tubers, and other carbs right? Eating a paleolithic diet means eating these foods as well, they’re not restricted.

    You and a lot of other people, including “paleo” eaters, are confusing the fad with what an actual paleolithic diet means.

    • Noel, good point! An example of recent human evolution is lactase persistence. A significant percentage of the human population has evolved the ability to digest the sugar in milk: lactose. Normally, the enzyme required for digesting lactose stopped being produced after weaning. This happened in the last 10K years.

      Paleo authors prohibit whole grains and beans (they usually do), but my point is that research shows these foods are healthy.

  2. John says:

    Paleo eating is not a disguised diet of any sort, it is what it is. And now you are bashing protein consumption of over 100 grams per day. you have no scientific basis. If you stop protein at 100 grams, i would like to know how many grams of carbs you suggest.

    • John, with all respects: We don’t usually quote studies in podcasts: It’s meant as a discussion. The study I referred to can be found here: http://www.cell.com/cell-metabolism/abstract/S1550-4131(14)00062-X (In parts, the author has done many more studies). But it would be false to say that this is the only study on the effects of overfeeding protein driving cancer risks. T. Colin Campbell has done a lot of research in that field.
      I personally recommend not aiming for grams of protein but rather percentage of calories. More podcasts will be found on the topic. Kevin and I have slightly different views on this.

  3. Annie says:

    I’ve listened to a lot of “so called” experts over the last 20 years, and quit listening to you all, as more and more I found the advice, extreme, narrow minded, or just plain wrong, based on my own life experience. For me, I’m the only expert for my body. That doesn’t mean I don’t continue to research, but I’m my own experiment. I’m finding a combination of Paleo and intermittent fasting is working well for me to solve some issues I’ve had all my life. There is no one way to live a healthy life, as you Kevin, found in your continued search for truth. I think it’s just too bad more people don’t take my approach and quit listening to others. Also, to Fred, you said you were worried about people following some of the paleo ideas, but worry is not good for you either, and non productive. Everyone has the right to find their own path, even if it’s wrong. They deserve the chance to figure that out on their own, just as you did. I have found grains do not work in my body, but that is only me. So I don’t eat them. That doesn’t mean everyone shouldn’t. To each his own.

  4. June Louks says:

    Kev – Watch Cowspiracy…you might make some major edits after watching it. xxJune

  5. Danny says:

    The main reason the for all of the gut dysbiosis these days (and autoimmune, chohn’s, etc.) is heavy metal poisoning. Many who are detoxing from mercury and lead are on the Gaps diet, controlling carbs because of raging candida flare ups. Candida flourishes under gut dysbiosis and that may be why some demonize carbs and sugar – because for them, it causes major health downturn.

    Mercury impairs neutrophils, the part of the immune system that controls yeast. Until the heavy metals are out of the body, yeast will be a continuing problem. Thus many turning to no/low carb fad diets like Paleo.

    In 5-10 years there will be more and more testimonials about this and it will become the mainstream ‘conventional wisdom.’

  6. Dee says:

    I didn’t seem to hear the ‘tip’ – “How you can easily create the diet that works best for you (our tip that has never failed anyone who’s tried it)” ?? …did I miss it? …can someone please enlighten me to what the ‘tip’ is???
    Thanks!

  7. Chris says:

    The best diet in the world is the one that makes you healthy and happy.

  8. WhiteTruck says:

    I think you guys are stereotyping people finding their way thru the Paleo Lifestyle. Many “Paleo” people do eat starchy tubers and white rice. High protein daily intake isn’t suggested by at the people leading at the forefront for some of the reasons you’ve stated. Furthermore, the main reason it’s recommended people limit their fruit consumption is to keep their blood sugars level stable, especially for those who have a diabetic or pre-diabetic conditions. The reason the diet is becoming more popular is because the diet works! People all over are reversing all different kinds of diseases on the diet…..and that for me is worth 100 times than any study could ever prove.

  9. Neil says:

    10 years ago and back further, I would have been still interested for this information and everything else that I have been involved with in the health and fitness industry over the years. Now, it’s boring, no offence, and skimmed through and listened to about 3 minutes in total. Again, it’s not your fault, it is just that I am in a different place now. It might be cool for you guys because, lets face it, you are young and just learning, but quite frankly in 10 years from now, most of what you are involved in now will probably become quite boring and broken down to some simple basics. I am certainly not claiming to know what I am talking about even though I am well into my forties and been involved in sport, health and fitness through my life; but I have come to understand human health better than ever before with utilising common sense and wisdom.

    I eat the way I want to eat based on what is best for me and also what I believe to be the fundamentals of healthy longevity – but I certainly don’t want a classification of being called a vegan, paleo, etc etc.

    I agree with Annie below, these are the people who are actually closer to ‘finding themselves’ than most. However, it’s really not that difficult. Media and marketing has made it difficult, but the truth is, good health is remarkably simple, yet varies from person to person. I have developed 9 pillars of human healthy longevity, and it is currently being placed outside ( utilising paths and symbols) withing the walk trails of our health retreat, called Natures Paradise in Perth, Western Australia.

  10. Annette says:

    I’m glad you broached this topic guys. It seems to me that things that become fads in the mainstream usually have a problem or aren’t balanced. My motto is to eat food the way God made it and as close to the way He made it as possible. Get away from extremism for the most part, get in tune with your own body and learn what makes you feel the best. If you need to do a vegan diet for a while to heal something, then go for it. If you need to do a paleo style diet for a while to heal yourself of something, then do it. If you need to do macrobiotics for a while, do it. Learn to listen to your body and make the necessary changes, and most importantly, get professional advice when you need it. Balance and sensibility is the key. 🙂

  11. k says:

    Good day, just finished listening to your Paleo discussion on your podcast. Do you have any comments/recommendatiion on the Paleo diet for Autoimmune?

    There is a Autoimmune Paleo protocol which I read about. Wondering if you would share your thoughts.

    Thank you.

  12. Ken says:

    I have to admit when I think of the Paleo diet I think of limited thinking. The blood alone which is the best way to cause disease and illness. I do not believe we ever ate that way. Some of the oldest culture in our world has limited meat eating the majority being a plant source for food.

  13. Thanks to you, Fred and Kevin for discussing the question I sent in(and, I imagine, others have asked as well). It can be very confusing at times, all the info that keeps coming into my inbox, newsfeeds, blogs, etc about Paleo. The last Thyroid Summit I listened to, it felt more like a “Paleo Summit”. And, for some one like me, who can’t chew most foods, much less digest them, lots of meat, and fat, is a disaster.

    At the same time, I get twice, if not many more things from those who are on the raw food diet(fruitarian, 8010/10, etc). However, concerning the later, I hear more from them things like, “I healed cancer, candida, etc, from going raw.”

    I like the balance that you both gave, esp since I lived “labeled” all my life, in so many areas and now, I feel weary with labeling, even how I eat, though it is currently mostly raw. I’m working on finding more of a balance, esp since I’m working on healing some a new Autoimmune disorder.

    Thanks again!

  14. Daniel says:

    Ok so it seems that the main issues you guys have with the paleo diet is: too much protein intake, and avoiding all grains. So for the protein intake that could possibly be true for some people but this can be fixed by adding more fat to your diet and lowering protein. Just a minor tweak. And even if ancient grains MAY be ok it’s clearly proven that diets without any grains are healthy so I don’t see a problem there either. You guys even mentioned the Maasai tribe diet and said they didn’t eat that much meat…how is that so?? From what I’ve read is that their main food source came from cows and that they ate about 2/3 saturated fat in their diet. Overall this whole podcast was trying to discredit paleo and it doesn’t seem that you guys came up with much at all.

  15. Anna says:

    What I respect about the Paleo movement is their interest in the quality of food. They generally aim to consume organic, local produce and meat from properly raised animals. I don’t remember Atkins followers being into that, and to me that makes Paleo very much superior. I cheer about any food movement that tries to avoid GMOs, mono culture, feed lots, and poultry factories.

    I agree with you that any “extreme” diet should only be pursued for a limited time and results checked periodically via blood and saliva testing. From what I’ve read in paleo/primal diet books, most authors recommend copious amounts of vegetables and don’t suggest anything particularly extreme; rather, they recommend things that contradict current conventional wisdom but used to be normal 100 years ago, like preferring saturated fat to vegetable oil.

  16. Yvonne says:

    Yes, you are correct, everybody is different and so their diet needs to be different too.

    I know somebody who was on the raw food diet for a year, lost 100 pounds and got rid of Candida. He is not on the raw food diet anymore.

    I had cancer yrs ago, chemo destroyed my immune system, I have had Candida ever since but not understanding it until a year ago. I have tried to get rid of Candida for a yr now, following the Candida diet, taking herbs, probiotics, any advice you find online I have tried it. I still have Candida. I have not done any pharmaceuticals (Fluconazole etc) b/c they destroy the good bacteria which I have worked so hard to build.

    I was a vegetarian for yrs, then a vegan, also tried raw food, but last year I happened to listen to Dr O’Bryan’s gluten free webinar and realized I have been suffering from gluten my w-h-o-l-e life!!! What a shock it was!!! I am now gluten free, and had to switch from vegan to paleo. It was a challenge to begin eating animal protein, my mind and emotions were not onboard for such a change, I really struggled, trying not to think about the animals who gave up their life for my dinner, after 19 yrs on loving beans as my protein source. But the truth is, my body feels physically better on animal protein diet. My dinner tonight is vegetable soup, but I also had a small piece of boiled salmon.

    PS: I got cancer while on vegetarian diet. I lived in Sweden back then and the Russian nuclear power plant in Chernobyl exploaded and the winds blew the fallout all across Europe and Scandinavia. The vegetarian diet, full of anitoxidants, helped to make the cancer grown slow, very slow. After chemo I didn’t know what to eat b/c my US oncologist told me to stop soy protein, which I did. Later I became vegan. But now paleo. End of story.

  17. Caroline says:

    DO Read Deadly Harvest by Geoff Bond – Anthropolgist and nutritionalist – is explains the why of all of it, and once read, you will have your questions answered why you are changing your life to eat this way – I had a live blood test after 6 months eating the San Bushman way with a bunch of friends – they all had candida, parasites, clumpy red blood cells blah blah and I had free swimming red blood cells literally smiling up at the microscope and no nasties at all … the microbiologist said – “Ah, you must be Geoff Bonding!!”

  18. Isabel says:

    I have been enjoying Fred and Kevin’s podcasts a lot recently (as someone who typically prefers reading), and I have to say that these discussions are just that: food for thought and open discussions on topics for people to glean information from.

    I personally love to get information from all sources and find which pieces hold true for me and which new insights I can incorporate into my lifestyle or do further research on.

    That said, I think people need to understand Frederic and Kevin are touching upon topics, giving personal perspectives and opinions, while not delving into the subject matter in-depth in the time they have allotted for the podcast. These are points they are touching on.

    What I like about the Paleo movement (and any movement as such) is the goal toward a cleaner, healthier diet, with, ultimately, respect for animal welfare (albeit indirectly i.e. grass-fed, non-factory farmed). Any movement that embraces a more holistic approach to eating is moving in the right direction. I am glad to see the world embracing a more nutritionally sound and quality-based diet. The upside is it seems everyone across the board these days can agree upon processed foods being out and whole-sourced foods being in.

    The way I see it, is in the broader, enlightened picture, we’re all moving toward the same idea and the same place, each movement doing it in its own way…ultimately coming to the conclusion of a “whole” diet. This is good news! The Paleo, raw, gluten-free diets are all converging to one point. I can’t wait to see the entire world awaken to the intrinsic power and frequency of food as “source energy.” Shifts are happening quickly.

    Kevin and Fred, I would love to hear a podcast on The China Study or these other indigenous cultures you’ve mentioned. I would be fascinated to learn your sources or directly from yourselves the way some of these tribes and cultures live.

    Also, another podcast on organic produce vs. conventional produce and what your thoughts are on whether all organic is best or some conventional is okay (mainly due to costs of organic), and also thoughts on local farmers’ market produce.

    Keep ’em coming, I am thoroughly enjoying the banter, the insights and topics, and vast repertoire of information you both have.

  19. Melina says:

    Sometimes people do need to have a strict diet when using food as medicine in order to heal difficult health conditions so please consider not perpetuating questioning attitudes toward those who need to do this and maybe realizing that by saying that you can be loose and more carefree in your food choices that this can create more ammunition against people who do need to eat strictly to heal. Many people already negatively judge those who need to be strict so maybe consider mentioning that it is often quite necessary to be disciplined. Personally, I go down hill if I eat any non-low sugar fruits so I need to stick to that discipline. But, yeah, I agree that high protein diets are not healthy, which is what Dr. Weston Price advocated. I feel he presented a very balanced approach. Dr. Price did not advocate eating huge amounts of meat like most paleo gurus. The isolated Swiss group that he studied did eat a lot of quality golden raw butter though and thrived on it. I eat 3 tbsp of quality raw butter a day and have improved so much by adding this in. But, I eat as much protein as Dr. Rosedale recommends, which is low. Dr. Price also did not advise avoiding grains and beans that are properly prepared. Research often shows that some groups from during the paleo era did eat wild grains and some groups did even collect and store them. However, if people are dealing with dysbiosis and injured microbiomes sometimes they need to exclude them. I think quality raw grass-fed dairy is an amazing food and many pastoralists historically thrived on often better than some of the other indigenous groups that did not include this kind of quality dairy. But, again please don’t make those who need to be strict sound like they are uptight and unfun, it really creates a challenge for those of us that do need to be disciplined to stay well.

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