Renegade Health Radio: Let’s Talk About Running

Thursday Mar 6 | BY |
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In the third Renegade Health Radio show, Kevin and Frederic talk about: Running!

In the third episode of the Renegade Health Show, Kevin and Frederic discuss running and exercise. Fred is now running in freezing temperature, and will share his experience. Kevin, a long-time runner, talks about problems with running forms and why it’s probably a bad idea for most people to wear Vibram shoes. Tune in to discover this and more!

Listen here now:

Click the play button to start the call:


Let’s Talk About Running

  • Kevin’s participating in the “Tough Mudder!” Will you be there?
  • Fred talks about running in really cold weather for the first time. Do you brave the cold temps?
  • Kevin tells the story of his great run in the pouring rain, and how he and Annmarie play tag team with Hudson while taking laps around the track.
  • Should you try running barefoot? Using Vibram shoes?
  • Have you tried ChiRunning, or read Danny Dryer’s book? If not, you may want to look into it, especially if you enjoy running and want to continue doing it with less risk of injury.
  • The meditative aspects of writing—where Kevin gets his best ideas.


    Kevin: Renegade Health Radio. Hey guys, it’s Frederic Patenaude. I’m Kevin Gianni.

    Frederic: We’re on the phone this time. This is going to be a little different.

    Kevin: It’s going to be a little different. We’ve now done three shows and we’ve had three different meetings.

    Frederic: That’s true! Yeah, Skype, the phone and live or whatever. Both in person, right?

    Kevin: Next up it’s going to be a string and can method.

    Frederic: Exactly!

    Kevin: Or telegraph or something like that. We’ll run out of mediums. We’re trying to get it straight over here. We just, Annmarie/Renegade Health, the offices here, we just moved into another office in the building so we took over another space and our Internet is a little choppy today so I can’t be on Skype today and Frederic is traveling, and, you know, just trying to make it right for you guys. I think the quality of information is more important than the quality of the call, but we’re working on the quality of the call. I keep saying call. I’ve been doing calls for so long. I’ve really never done podcasts so excuse me for saying that. This is podcast.

    Frederic: Whatever it is, it’s audio, and by the way, we’re getting a transcript. Some people are asking us for a transcript, so the future podcasts will also be transcribed and available for you to read on the website.

    Kevin: Great. Hey, Fred, do you have something you wanted to share with everyone?

    Frederic: I had an interesting comment from the last podcast that we did on what’s the natural cause of death. So someone says, Perry says, “I don’t understand why people want to live so long. I like what comes with youth—novelty exploration, power, energy, a sharp mind, attractiveness, sexiness, stamina recovery, whoa. What’s so great about being old? You get none of those things. Some free time to count your money again? Maybe I’ll change my tune later, but I’m sure a total of 50 years will be enough of this stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid under-evolved world for me. Exit, stage right.” So that was a real comment we got.

    Kevin: Well thanks for listening, Perry. As we were saying before we started, I just really don’t think this Perry has a kid. Perry believe me, when you have a kid, you’ll want to stay on this Earth as long as humanly possible. That’s about all I can say.

    Frederic: Yeah, I don’t think Perry has a job either, or an apartment, or is old enough to take care of things. Gel the future kind of things.

    Kevin: A lot of assumptions here, but you know, Perry, if you are listening to this podcast, write us back and tell us a little bit about yourself. We’d appreciate it. Hey Fred, do you know I’m training for the Tough Mudder?

    Frederic: Yes, you told me, but should I pretend that I didn’t know? Actually, you almost fooled me because I was in Berkley recently and Kevin didn’t mention anything about the Tough Mudder. This is a race he is going to tell you about. It just came up in a conversation. Someone else says, “Hey,” his friend Nick, you know, “How are you doing with your training for the Tough Mudder?” Something like that, you know. It was a perfect indirect way of having some awesome thing about yourself be told. This is how it’s supposed to be. Like you want to brag, you don’t brag directly, you have other people brag about you. I’m impressed that you’re doing—you have to do it first, right?

    Kevin: Yeah, I have to do it first. I haven’t done it yet, so don’t give me any credit until I do. But I have mixed feelings about it. It’s one of those things where maybe ten years ago when I was single and working out like a madman and just had different priorities, I think it might be something that I’d want to conquer or even just like prove to myself that I can do something like this. But these days, you know, I don’t really feel like I have that much to prove, at least physically, on that level, and I don’t really need people barking in my ear, giving me orders when I’m running around and trying to do some of these obstacles. I don’t know. I have a little bit of a mixed feeling about the whole thing.

    Frederic: For people who don’t know what we’re talking about, can you say a little bit about what is it?

    Kevin: Probably a good idea! Tough Mudder is…what’s the best way to describe it? It was an event created…I believe it was created in some way or another to be somewhat charitable to wounded warriors. I don’t know if that came in before or after, but it’s kind of like a tough-guy obstacle course, but it’s not only men who are doing it. There’s actually a decent number of women who do the Tough Mudder as well.

    Essentially, it’s anywhere between a 10- to I think 12-mile run, and in between, I think you go through 20 some odd obstacles. Again, I don’t know the data here because I think less is better in this situation. We know how to train for it, in terms of running and running up hills and doing stadium stairs and a lot of body weight exercises like push-ups and maybe some kettle bell training. But it should be an interesting thing. It usually takes about four to five hours to complete probably at my level. I’m not trying to win. I know I won’t win. Somebody might say what kind of attitude is that and I say it’s an attitude that doesn’t set yourself up for huge disappointment. That’s what it is. You can check it out at You might have some fun just looking at some of the videos and deciding if it’s something for you or maybe get a group of your friends together. Who knows? But we’re doing it in May, so if you have any interest in joining us, I guess you could sign up in May for the Vermont one.

    Frederic: Yeah, I don’t think so, Kevin. But I must say I did my own Tough Mudder the other day. When I visited Berkley, California I was—I started running again because the weather is—I stopped running like back in November because the weather got really bad here. I know there are people that are running outside in cold weather and I was just not one of them. So I started running and when I came back here, I was missing it, you know, just being outside. I mean, the gym is just kind of depressing when that’s the only exercise you do. So I wanted the outside. I thought, you know what? I’m just going to try to go run in freezing weather. That was two days ago. It was -10 degrees Celsius, which is what, 15, 10-15 Fahrenheit or even lower, probably. It’s freezing but a beautiful day. Just sunny weather. I did like every person now in 2014 does when confronted with a problem is, I Googled it—how to run in cold weather. So I got some great tips. Found an article on, so I had all the gear, put it on and went running. I must say I had a pretty good time. It’s not as bad as it seems. As long as it’s sunny, you know, it’s not like snowing or something crazy like that, yeah, I was happy to do it.

    Kevin: There’s a video on…I don’t know if you can find it on You Tube, but it’s a newscaster who finds two—a couple, a young guy and a young girl, running in like the middle of a snowstorm. There must be like a foot of snow and they’re like, “Oh yeah, it’s great. It’s great for stabilizing muscles and it’s fantastic to just get out in the fresh air.” The newscaster says, “Well, are you guys afraid of falling?” They were like, “No, no we never fall.” So the newscaster says, “All right, see you later.” And the camera pans as they’re like running off in the distance and you see this poor girl just totally wiped out on the street. Running in the snow might have a little bit of a challenge.

    Frederic: It’s not, I mean, the trail that I normally go to, it’s sort of an old railroad track. They’ve done that all throughout Quebec because those railroads are not used anymore. Not every single track, but the really ancient ones, so they’ve turned them into biking and running trails. So it’s pretty cool. It’s like 5 or 6 or 8 kilometers where I live that you can go and use and it’s pretty nice, but I didn’t realize in the winter that they don’t clean it up. They don’t remove the snow or anything like that, so it’s just hardened layers of ice and snow. I realize you can walk your dog and stuff on that stuff—people do it—but running…I realized that was not safe. So what I did is I stayed on the streets because snow doesn’t accumulate on the streets where people walk and so on. So that’s where I ran and tried to keep it a little safe.

    Kevin: I’ve been running in the rain here. I will tell you that if there’s one exercise in one particular condition that I think is just the most amazing thing on the planet it’s running in the rain at about 60 degrees outside. So when the temperature is 60 degrees Fahrenheit and it’s raining and the rain is a little bit cold.

    Frederic: Oh yeah, I know that.

    Kevin: You know, you almost feel like you can’t, like you just don’t sweat. It’s just almost like the perfect weather for exercise. We’ve had a couple of those days here. The other morning it was pouring here, like absolutely pouring, and I get up and I said to Annmarie, I said, “Do you want to take Hudson to the track?” What we do is we do a circuit on the track, so we’ll take Hudson and Annmarie will run a lap while I have him, just kind of playing either inside of the track or on the track. He likes to jump on the letters of the King Cobras, which is the middle school sports team, so there’s letters that says “The King Cobras.” He jumps on those.

    Then Annmarie will take him and then I’ll run a lap, and what we’ll both do is we’ll sprint the hundred meters, the long hundred meters, and then we’ll kind of jog on the curves and then sprint the hundred meters again. So I asked her if she wanted to do this the other day and she’s like, “No, it’s just too rainy for Hudson.” We just didn’t want him to…he’d been out in the rain the day before. We didn’t want to kind of get him sick. So I literally stood like back and forth with the door open because it was pouring so hard for about five minutes trying to decide if I really wanted to brave the rain. And so finally I just looked at her and said, “All right, I’m doing it.” Then I just ran right out into it. I didn’t think about it anymore and it was probably one of the best runs that I’ve had in the last couple of weeks.

    Sometimes you just got to do it, and I was thinking to myself, It may not have to be the perfect run, or even if I walk a little bit or even if it’s just too much rain and I turnaround, I think the lesson for me always is just show up. Just show up to do whatever. Just show up even if you just show up at the gym and you get there and you do two exercises and you’re like oh man, I just feel awful today. Just take off. It’s cool. You did more than you probably would do if you stayed at home and just stayed in bed or something.

    Frederic: And you kept the habit going.

    Kevin: You keep the habit.

    Frederic: Sometimes you think, I mean you think, like you thought to yourself that you would not like running in the rain and you ended up liking it.

    Kevin: Yep, just like you did with running in the cold.

    Frederic: Yeah, exactly. I mean, I used to live in Vancouver, B.C. and I loved the running there because it’s the kind of weather that you’re describing all the time or it’s very often like that, and it almost never freezes and it’s perfect for running. That’s like the most running that I ever did was in Vancouver, B.C., because I just wanted to go everyday. The worst is really humid, hot temperature. My heart rate goes through the roof and it’s just very difficult. What do you think, Kevin?

    Kevin: It’s almost like a slog. I remember running in Austin a couple years ago when we were traveling around, what’s that Lady Bird Lake there, the lake that’s right there? I think it’s called Lady Bird Lake and I think it’s maybe, you can customize how long you want it to be. It can be anywhere from 2 to 3 to 4 to 5 miles or something like that, I think. I remember running around there in just dead, middle of the day, just because it was the only time I could do it and it must have been 105 degrees out or something like that.

    In Austin, it’s not hot like Phoenix hot. You know, Phoenix hot is dry. You dry out really quickly, but it doesn’t feel super, super hot. But in Austin, it’s just so hot and so humid and I remember just coming back and just feeling like I had just been hit by a bus. It was just one of those “man this is just so hard.” It’s almost like the humidity slows you down it’s so thick. Then the heat is just so oppressive. You’re right about the heart rate. It does really kind of bring your heart rate up. I don’t know if that’s a negative thing. I guess it just depends on high it’s going up, right?

    Frederic: I think it’s a question of adaptation. Let’s say you’re going to run in Hawaii for a marathon or half marathon and you’re training in Portland, Oregon. You’re going to need some adaptation time for that new climate. So I think those first few days, in that climate, that the heart rate really goes up and you’re adjusting. But after you’ve been running in that climate for a few weeks or whatever, your body will adjust and I think the heart rate is going to go down.

    Kevin: I’ve always wondered because some of the American sports teams here, why they never practice up in the mountains to be able to improve their oxygen intake. I’ve always wondered why that doesn’t happen. I know that some of the Olympic athletes, even the summer Olympic athletes, train up in like Steamboat Springs and some places in Colorado. I’ve always wondered why they didn’t come in the off season to Colorado to have this high altitude training so when they come back to sea level they just have better oxygen uptake. I have no idea why they don’t do that and maybe some do, and maybe that’s a secret that they don’t like to publish.

    Frederic: Let’s talk about running a little bit. We didn’t really plan on talking about this topic, but I think it’s interesting because there are a lot of misconceptions about exercise in general, and I know, especially in sort of a natural alternative Paleo movements, people have all kinds of ideas about exercise and what you should eat for exercise and after exercise and what kind of exercises you should do and there are even ideas running around that cardio like running and cycling isn’t good for you. You should only do interval training and so on. I mean I have a few thoughts on that. Was wondering maybe if you wanted to share some stuff about that because I know you have a big, a huge background in fitness.

    Kevin: Yes, I started running, oh man, years and years and years go and I hurt myself running a marathon and for me that was kind of the first time I had really hurt myself to a point where I had to stop running because of the injury for a certain period of time. I was lucky then, though, to be able to find Danny Dryer and Danny Dryer is the guy who wrote the book ChiRunning and also ChiWalking since then.

    Danny is a fantastic guy. If you ever get a chance to go to a workshop of his, see him in person, train with him, whatever, I would totally recommend it, particularly if you like running, because he is going to save you years of wear and tear on your knees, hips, back, ankles, plantar fascia, he’s going to save you a ton of time. He’s going to spare you; wait, he’s going to get you more time on your feet.

    So I learned some of the principles that he talks about, and I can’t say that I am a master of ChiRunning, but some of the principles that he talks about are really beneficial to anyone who wants to enjoy this type of hobby for or type of exercise. I consider it more of a hobby than exercise. Makes it better that way, for me. I do it as exercise, but it’s one of those things where I love doing it so it doesn’t really seem so much as an exercise like bench press. Like bench press is an exercise to me. It’s almost like a death sentence sometimes. Oh my gosh, it doesn’t seem like it has any purpose.

    But anyway, I think the best thing, kind of going into the principles of running and in particularly what Danny teaches, is that our bodies are meant to run very efficiently and we don’t do that. We can probably talk for hours about the type of shoes that you can wear, your running form, and we can talk about injury prevention, but I think the biggest thing that is kind of a misconception and maybe even a myth in today’s running lexicon, or kind of just the forums that we kind of hang out in—particularly in the alternative health running forums—is that we should be going back to barefoot. Some people are going to like say that I’m talking nonsense right now, but I thought about this for a long time and studied it as well.

    Going back to barefoot isn’t necessarily the best idea and here’s why: A lot of people are using these Vibram shoes and they’ve been running for years in regular running shoes and then they seriously just put on their Vibram shoes and start running, in their Vibram shoes.

    Frederic: Bad idea for most people, yeah.

    Kevin: It’s an awful idea. I’ve seen people with stress fractures, with injuries that become worse because of doing that, and the reason why is very simple. Your anatomy has adjusted to being in these clunky shoes that we call shoes that we really don’t even need but over a period of 20, 30, 40, 50 years, your whole locomotion, the way that your body moves has adapted to doing what it does with those shoes. In order to train to actually be a barefoot runner, you have to train for literally years to be able to retrain your body, and some people can’t even go all the way back.

    You have to be very careful about the type of shoes and that kind of theory that your body just naturally knows how to run barefoot. It’s a total theory and it’s actually kind of something that’s actually injuring people. I’m not saying that you shouldn’t run barefoot. I’m saying that the best way to do it is train very slowly and what I used to do, when I first, before I even had Vibrams, I would go to the track and I would run three laps with shoes and then one lap without and just totally barefoot. People would look at me like I was a nut job. This was before Vibrams became popular. This was probably about 8, 9 years ago. So I would do that and then I would pop my shoes back on for another few laps, run barefoot for another lap and I did that for years. I did that for like three or four years and then I tried the Vibrams and even then I still think that the Vibrams contributed a little bit to some of the recurring knee issues that I have now that I am working through using, going back to the ChiRunning technique.

    So Fred, what are your thoughts on running and running technique?

    Frederic: I think running, like what you said, at the beginning, that it’s more like a hobby for you. I mean that resonates with me, because people want an exercise that does everything. They want to find the best exercise, or is interval training better than running? Or is cross fit better than blah, blah, blah? And you know, every exercise does something different, so you can’t have an exercise that does everything. You want to find the type of exercise that does what you want, what you’re looking for, and I like running, like you, because of the high that I get and the feeling being outside and so on and the mood enhancement.

    Those are my main reasons to run, probably similar for you. I love the just going out for that and listening to music and being outside and there’s a lot of misconceptions about running. Running form is important, like you said. I learned a lot of from Shelly Stein who kind of coached me. She is going to be a writer for Renegade Health soon, as well, so you can learn more about her. She kind of taught me some basic stuff. I never got into ChiRunning, but I think a lot of her information came from that, so I kind of got a little bit. I don’t think I have awesome form, but it’s a lot better than it used to be, and I never got injured or anything in recent years.

    I mean people, spend a lot on exercise equipment. I see that all the time now that running is popular. I used to run near my mom’s place in Quebec like 10, 15 years ago, and you’d run in the summer and suddenly you’d meet another runner and then you kind of wave or say “hi” and then that’s it. You might encounter another person running on the way back or something. Now, in the summer, I mean, I meet people like every minute, every two minutes. There’s like a lot of people running. In the last, I don’t know, 3, 4, 5 years, it’s just become hugely popular again in North America after not being so popular for a while. And people run because it’s kind of a fad and they get expensive shoes and they get all this equipment and they don’t really need that. They just need to go out and run and learn how to run, maybe take a class on running, and people will take a class on lifting weights or they’ll take a class, but it doesn’t occur to most people to take a class on running because everybody thinks there’s nothing to know. But there’s a lot to know, right? Not a lot, but there is some to know, right?

    Kevin: Absolutely. I mean, the biggest fallacy that’s kind of ever happened, in running, is the idea of the heel strike. You run heel to toe and when you run heel to toe…well, let me go back a little bit more. The shoe companies, I guess they were noticing, I don’t know what was—I don’t even know what happened. I don’t know what made someone say that running heel to toe was the right thing, so what the shoe companies decided to do was create this really big thick padded heel in the shoe. That was an attempt to kind of pad the heel, which is not meant to actually strike first when someone is moving or you’re running naturally. You’re supposed to have a mid foot fall so the middle of your foot hits and almost the front and the heel kind of hit like one, two, like that, so the front hits and then the heel hits just to stabilize you. If you think about it, if you’re running heel to toe, every time you’re landing with your heel, you’re sending a shockwave straight up your leg so into your ankle, into your knee, into your hip, into your lower back. This is why a lot of people have pretty serious injuries from running. It’s not necessarily because of anything else, but the fact that their form is incorrect.

    Like Fred said, any type of lesson that you can take—and I definitely recommend—and you can tell Danny that we sent you over here, because I’ve had a love with his work for such a long time. Anyone who wants to have running as a hobby, and again, yes, it’s exercise, but as a hobby, really needs to do this because if your hobby gets taken away from you because you’re doing it incorrectly, in the form of an injury, it becomes very depressing.

    I know when I had my initial calf injury, way back when, when I ran that marathon, I was depressed for six months because I couldn’t run. That to me really affected my mood. It really made me feel bad about myself. I didn’t really want to do other exercises, but I was forced to do them because I wanted to stay in shape and I just kind of got into this funk.

    So if you have a hobby like that or an exercise that you love, learn everything about it. Learn all the techniques. Learn all the secrets and talk to the people who have been doing it for a long time. One other thing I do want to add about running is the mood and meditation aspect of it is amazing for me. So again, Fred, you were talking about mood enhancement. For me, I’m talking about just overall life enhancement when I run. When I get out there, I don’t even think about what I want to think about, but man, if I need it, it comes to me. It’s kind of like this thing where your head starts going and you’re running and maybe you get like a little rhythm or beat in your head and then suddenly you’re not thinking about anything and for me, answers start to come. If I am thinking about maybe something in my relationship, if I am thinking about something within a business or if I am thinking about an idea or trying to find a way to have a hook on an article or a chapter in a book, if I get out and run, the more that I do that, the more the answers just come. I don’t know if I am kind of channeling it or stepping into some other realm where I can get clear communication from whoever, but it just is one of those things where the more I do it, the more I feel that I am really just here, guided and protected and just getting the right information to make the right decisions.

    Frederic: I’m totally on board with that. There was a time where, I mean, I would get so many ideas running that it was like a problem because I wanted to find a way to capture those ideas. So the iPhone wasn’t invented, but I would carry like a portable recorder just to record my ideas running because those were like the best ideas. It’s just amazing and I get that a little bit, if I go take a walk, but much more running. [Crosstalk]

    Kevin: Go ahead.

    Frederic: I was going to say, and if you can’t run, you definitely can walk. This is not—and I use walking meditation as well because walking is exercise.

    Kevin: Yeah. If you’re listening to this and you’re like, “Man, I really wish I could run,” you can walk. It’s okay. It’s totally cool and you can read ChiWalking and learn how to walk better so you can save your knees even more.

    Frederic: That’s cool. Does ChiWalking use a metronome? Because I know that’s one thing that I was doing at some point that kind of helped me run with a metronome and follow the beat because I think one of the problems is people actually run too slow or they’re not moving their feet fast enough so that they spend less time in the air and too much time landing and so it places more strain on the whole body. By paying attention to that, you kind of get back in a rhythm. Especially if you’re going to run like more than 5k at a time or more than like 20k a week or something, then you should pay attention to that.

    Kevin: Definitely. ChiRunning does a metronome and you, I think it was 85, somewhere between 85 and 90 and you just time your foot falls with the metronome. And another reason why you’re not doing slower strides is because when you’re doing slower strides, it means that you’re using your muscles more because you are using them to propel you and in this case, with ChiRunning, you’re working with all the forces of chi or you’re working with gravity to be able to let your body lean and then your feet just kind of move you along. You’re using some muscles to stabilize you and to push, but not so much as allowing gravity to let your body lean forward, and then having your feet there so you just stay up.

    At first, sometimes, it’s actually a little bit uneasy trying to do it because you’re like, “Wait, am I leaning forward trying to fall? Am I bending at my waist and I’m falling forward? Am I going to fall?” Once you get up to like a really nice speed, you realize that your gas pedal is just your lean and sometimes you’re leaning so far ahead and your feet are kicking up behind you that it just feels kind of surreal. It doesn’t necessarily feel like a normal type of run. It just feels like almost like gliding.

    Frederic: It’s like kids run like that.

    Kevin: Yes.

    Frederic: It’s really amazing. Since I’ve learned that, I’ve been watching when children run like for no reason. And you watch them and they do the falling forward motion exactly like that, and you watch their feet and the angle of their feet is really the right angle. It goes to 90 degrees. It’s perfect. Then you watch people that are like painfully running on the same tracks, as a sport, and they have it all wrong, right?

    Kevin: Yeah, and you can see a children running. When Hudson runs up and down the sidewalks now and you just look at it and you’re like, “Wow, like that really is good form,” and then you put shoes on children and then their form starts to disintegrate a little bit. Then it’s a lifetime of form disintegration and then there’s bunions and plantar fasciitis and ankle issues and knee issues and calf issues and lower back issues and that’s what we do.

    Definitely, if you have kids or if you’re trying to get someone who is younger to run faster or just have healthy lower extremities for their lives, two things: one, make sure that they run less in shoes so less shoes; and two, make sure they don’t wear heels, because heels kind of have this whole other process that puts a lot of strain on the lower back. It tightens up the quads and all that sort of thing. It’s crazy. It’s all this backwards information. It seems like things were okay and then we step in with science in many ways. Not to say that all science is bad, because there’s a lot of science that Fred and I both really appreciate and like, but some scientist steps in and changes everything for the worse, and then we’re the ones who have to deal with the fall out from all this.

    Frederic: Without mentioning the gurus who have it all wrong and say the wrong things often and put you in the wrong path with the false advice that they’re spreading, I mean, that’s often the case, like you mentioned with running.

    Kevin: Some people say fat-free. Some people say sugar-free. Some people say coffee-free. We say guru-free around here.

    Frederic: Awesome. So I think that’s it for today, Kevin. What do you think?

    Kevin: I think we’re good. Thanks for listening, guys. Put your comments below. We’d love to hear them.

    Your question of the day: What topics do you want us to cover in the future?

    Kevin Gianni

    Kevin Gianni is a health author, activist and blogger. He started seriously researching personal and preventative natural health therapies in 2002 when he was struck with the reality that cancer ran deep in his family and if he didn’t change the way he was living — he might go down that same path. Since then, he’s written and edited 6 books on the subject of natural health, diet and fitness. During this time, he’s constantly been humbled by what experts claim they know and what actually is true. This has led him to experiment with many diets and protocols — including vegan, raw food, fasting, medical treatments and more — to find out what is myth and what really works in the real world.

    Kevin has also traveled around the world searching for the best protocols, foods, medicines and clinics around and bringing them to the readers of his blog — which is one of the most widely read natural health blogs in the world with hundreds of thousands of visitors a month from over 150 countries around the world.


    Comments are closed for this post.

    1. JENNIFER says:


    2. Faith says:

      Yeaaaa! Transcript! Sorry guys, but I get really bored and impatient with your personal chatter. I want to skip to the relevant health stuff.

    3. Elena says:

      I would really appreciate it if you could include a written transcript of your radio shows. I am not sure if you have considered this, but these days when I see a post from you and find myself wanting to know what you have to share, I am very disappointed when I find that your offering is a radio program.
      In my situation, I can only read online.

      I enjoy topics having to I do with health and fitness, exercise and exercise recovery, vegan nutrition, improving fitness, improving health, etc.

      Thank you for,considering offering written transcripts of,your radio show. I would be so appreciative if you might be able to offer this, even if only occasionally.

      Thanks for your hard work.

    4. Holly says:

      Thank you! Love it! Been a runner for 21 years & naturally ran mid-fore foot strike & had people tell me I had it wrong & should run heel-toe. Tried that for a while & ended up back to a more improved mid-fore foot strike. Had a “guru” tell me a couple years ago that I had it all wrong with my running posture (leaning forward) & I should be upright. I’ve wondered if I would ever be able to run correctly – upright. Lol. I need to trust my body knows what’s best instead of “gurus”. Needed this as I’m just getting back to running after 3 months off due to falling on a treadmill & the emergency stop didn’t work & as a result my knees were badly banged up & injured. Turned out to be for the best since now that I’m back – I’ve taken to running outdoors again & had been in a rut of treadmill running. Now I don’t need a gym membership & I’m outside which is way better!

    5. Holly says:

      Also going to check out Chi Running/Walking.

    6. Elena says:

      Just listened to this radio show. I really enjoyed it.

      I also appreciated that you added that you will be making transcripts available for future shows. thanks!

      I just re-started running several months ago. I must have bad form. Since last month I have an injury that has made running painful, and even walking uncomfortable. It starts somewhere in my hip, gluten and travels down to my foot,,but is most painful around the glute and upper hamstring.

      Like you, Kevin, this has depressed me, because I was really looking forward to and enjoying this regular hobby as an emotional and mental uplift. Now I am slowly starting to simply walk, no running, it is just too painful.

      This is the first time I have had an injury from running that has lasted about a month. Most others have disappeared after taking a little time off.
      Do you have any advice for recovery like specific stretches, or other techniques to aid recovery and healing?
      What has helped you the most?

      Is it simply time away from running until the injury fades away with time ?
      I can understand how frustrating it must have been for you to take6 months off. I really hope I won’t need that much time off.
      I took 8 days off and when I returned to running the injured areas were back in pain almost immediately. So I am once again taking time off from running with no idea how long it will take to be able to return.

      Thanks for your input,


    7. larry says:

      I have been hesitant to say anything about the Renegade Health Radio show, but feel compelled to speak up now. I am very disappointed with the direction Renegade Health and other alternative health sources are going – to radio, podcasts, etc. – because the hearing impaired and deaf are unable to participate. I have a severe sensorineural hearing loss and rely on closed captioning/English subtitles/printed transcripts to fully understand and enjoy DVDs, videos, audio interviews, MP3 downloads, etc. And even with closed captioning I do not always get everything, It also is hard to lipread radio shows and audio tapes, CDs, MP3s, etc. :-). And I have difficulty listening to MP3 downloads and hearing all the words on videos. Thus I wondered if there is any way you could provide either closed captioning or printed transcripts for your radio shows. Otherwise I will probably gravitate away from Renegade Health. A better, probably more effective solution for everyone, would be a video show with closed captioning. Thanks for listening, and have a good day.

    8. Thanks for the information and website for Chi running. I have already checked it out and think it will be beneficial to me.

    9. Patrick says:

      Great information, thank you. I’d like to hear your point of view on “earthing” and what type of shoes you recommend for this. Thanks and keep up the great work.

    10. Jasmijn says:

      Hi there

      Just a comment about running barefoot, or in vibrams in this case. I would like to share my experience. Thanks to the five toes shoes I am able to run again without any pain in my knees! It took me a few months to get used to, building it up slowly and getting the technic right: start at your toes and roll down till your heel touches the ground. Then in the air you should relax your calve muscles. I would not go back to normal shoes!

    11. Gerry says:

      Good answer re: “…when you have a kid you want to stay on this earth as long as possible.”

      I do agree with the comments re: less chit/chat and more topic info plus answering questions.

      Would like some in-dept info re: Earthing, Earth Sheets, Earth Shoes, etc.

      Looking forward to more in the future.


    12. Sylvia says:

      Try Yaktrax for running on ice, they’re great! (you do need to wear shoes:) Thanks for the information.

    13. Evey says:

      Guys, GET TO THE POINT! My time is precious! Surely you know how that feels?!

      I clicked on this radio show to hear about the Vibram shoes and 16 minutes into it, you guys are still shooting the breeze about how cool it is to run in the rain. Not that you aren’t charming, but I have other stuff I need to do.

      How about, tell us about the shoes, since that was the teaser, and then you can do all the runner’s chit-chat afterward. People like me – who are interested in hearing about the shoes but couldn’t care less about running because I will NEVER run – feel like we’re stuck listening to a phone call that is completely irrelevant to us!

      Unfortunately, I won’t have time to listen to this long enough to get to the Vibram part…

    14. Jacki says:

      I’m confused! A while back you had Jonathan FitzGordon on talking about core walking and mid forefoot strike. And now it’s bad?
      Who to believe

    15. Sage says:

      I am 62, with children and am an activist. Though i don’t agree that youth is the reason for why one wants to stay alive (the wisdom of later years outweighs the drama of youth) but i do agree that the awareness of current people and the corruption of those in power can lead one to despair and why would one want to live a long time? It will take miracles to turn this world around and i’m not so sure that it’s not too late. Using children as a reason to want to live a long time, well, they leave and you aren’t so important in their lives. You as a parent, will not have the meaning or place in their life when they become a teen (through adulthood) as they do to you. I love being an elder but it is lonely, and that makes it hard. I suppose when my body wears out i may feel differently about liking the elder years, so maybe 60 would be a good time to pass on rather than 50.

      Well now that i’ve been totally depressing maybe an episode dealing with depression and anxiety would be helpful. A leading disability in this country right now IS depression and anxiety. Sadness is due to external affairs but depression is not a cognitive choice and is more related to chemical and hormone imbalance. What are good dietary things one can do to maintain optimal neuro/mood elevation?

      Another topic i would like to hear more about is on healing the digestive system. Our digestive systems are so compromised. We have no tolerance for lactose and gluten and people have allergies, inflammation, AND digestion problems. What few nutrients we do get from food aren’t able to be processed (leaky guts syndrome) properly. So many young people have complaints that were once only known to elders. I think digestion is the root cause for most physical problems. Will you give some insight into this area, how we can improve our bodies, without fattening doctor’s wallets through having extensive, costly diagnostic tests run? We should be able to heal ourselves.

    16. Michele says:

      I watched one of your videos before where you educated us on Chi running. I’m so thrilled to have learned about Chi running from you. I changed my way of running that day and have had wonderful pain free runs ever since. I did experience some hip pain later do to the wrong shoes I was wearing. So I do want people to know the importance of going to a run shop to get your running gate analyzed for a proper fitting shoe.
      Thanks again Kev. I love you and Annmarie. I use all her products too, 😉 they r awesome!

    17. Perry says:

      This is Perry. You talked about me in podcast. You said that:

      1) “I just really don’t think this Perry has a kid.” You are correct, I do not. At age 25 I specifically and resolutely decided not to have children and even got “snipped” just to make sure. I think people that bring children into this world are selfish unless they can make sure the kid is going to be VERY WELL taken care of. Well, I can’t do that, and since I’m not selfish…then no kid(s). And I don’t think that the responsibility to your kids should make you want to stick around as long as possible. You should just want to because you enjoy your life. I think people just create all kinds of repsonsibility, drama, interaction, etc in their lives so they FEEL like they have Purpose, when all they really have is constant distraction. Well, you can keep your little rugrats…I just want constant peace.

      2) You also said “Yeah, I don’t think Perry has a job either, or an apartment, or is old enough to take care of things. Gel the future kind of things.” Well, you’re wrong. I’m 37, have a career, my own home, and is twice the maturity of my age from my past experiences. So, with all due respect, screw you.

      I hope things turn out with all the abundance that I see for humanity. But I highly doubt it. Humans are stupid and just have to be in massive pain before they change and get their act together, whether individually or collectively. We’re screwed. I’m currently now 3/4ths done with 50, so there’s not much time left. Probably just enough to see 10% of my potential come to fruition, and to see all the world’s systems crash. If Humanity 2.0 (after the culling) potentially looks better, then maybe I’ll stick around longer. But I just see billions of people suffering in the years ahead under global geoengineering…and thus global “natural” disasters, mass starvation, mass hyperinflation, mass ingorance, and ultimately tyrannical oppression…and whether or not mw and my quantity-zero kids are personally OK in the midst of that doesn’t comfort me much when I’m filled with sympathy and empathy for the rest of the people.

      Lastly, no offense but you guys talk WAY to damn much about peripherals in these podcasts. Blah blah blah. Who has time to just “hang out” with you guys?? You could summarize all your actual main points in under 60 seconds. Life goes on, and rather quickly.

      Thx for the fun. Chop chop.

    18. Velda says:

      I was really interested in this segment because you mentioned Vibram shoes. My son got a pair of these for me for Christmas. I absolutely love them. This is the first pair of shoes I have ever owned that I want to wear. Quite often at the office I kick my shoes off and go around barefooted for a big part of the day. When I got my Vibrams, there was just no adjustment period for me. When my son got his, he said there was a big adjustment period for him. After listening to your show, I assume my adjustment period was less because I go barefoot so much of the time.

      Also, while I am not a runner, I am interested in learning about Chi Running – although I’m quite sure I won’t run – and Chi Walking. I will definitely look into it.

      Thank you for the information you are willing to impart. I am sorry that people like Perry feel it necessary to be so cynical and critical and judgmental. He says people that have children are selfish. That could not be further from the truth. Perhaps there are some that have children for selfish reasons, but having children is far from a selfish proposition. He sounds more like he would like to complain about the woes of the world, then try to do something about it, and then check out early. Sad commentary from this man.

      Thank you again for putting the effort into making yours and my corner of the world a little bit better!!

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