Meat Eaters and Vegans Both Don’t Want to Listen to Science They Don’t Agree With… (Commentary on Dr. Cousens’ Commentary) : Renegade Health Exclusive Article

Tuesday Mar 15 | BY |
| Comments (40)

sprouts from the tree of life
These sprouts at the Tree of Life were amazing!

After listening to Dr. Gabriel Cousens’ commentary, I wanted to summarize a few points, highlight some quotes that were valuable and add some of my own thoughts on what he said.

I think the most valuable aspect of Dr. Cousens’ contribution is the fact that he has many years of clinical experience – what this means is that he has seen and tested patients over a long period of time.

This is one reason why I respect what he has to say (along with Dr. Mercola, Dr. Goldhamer, Dr. Williams and others who have real clinical experience.)

What they say is not a reflection of what they’ve read, it’s a reflection of their true experience.

When it comes to your own health, I think it’s extremely valuable to put your trust in people who’ve been in the trenches, not necessarily in the books.

(I will note, personal experience can be extremely beneficial to listen to as well!)

Here we go…

1. The Lesser and the Greater.

Dr. Cousens explains that the Great Health Debate was a flat discussion. Not meaning that is was boring, but flat because most experts only talked about nutrition without many other considerations.

I totally agree with this.

Focusing on nutrition is a very shortsighted approach – which Dr. Cousens says is “the lesser.” The greater is a holistic approach that includes many more aspects than the narrow detail explained in the Debate. If you just focus on the food, you’re going to be unbalanced.

Dr. Cousens also makes sure that we understand his “greater” approach is also for spiritual enlightenment more so than any dietary accomplishment.

2. What is it – the meat or the processed foods? Or both?

Dr. Cousens and many of the other experts explained that as meat intake increased so did the incidence of disease over the last century. But over the last 100 years, the other thing that has increased is the intake of processed foods. So my question is this… is it the increase of meat or the increase of processed foods, or a combination of both? (Or EMF’s, or radioactive materials, or mercury poisoning, or…)

We truly don’t have the science to separate the two in a way that we could definitively say one or the other.

In my opinion, the excess meat and the processed foods are likely both to blame, but I wonder how much just the meat or animal protein is contributing to the greater picture. I also wonder if it’s a combination of the meat and processed foods as well that may set off negative gene expression.

Lots of wondering here, but if we want to get closer to the truth and help everyone understand why eating less animal foods than we’re eating now is better for the population (which almost all diet experts with any sense will agree), we have to get the science right.

It just makes us all that much more credible.

We can piece together some arguments now, but they’re just that – pieced together.

3. Animal agriculture does suck resources.

During the Debate, there was some argument on the blog about whether or not animal agriculture was wasteful in terms of the larger environmental picture. Some people who commented said that industrial agriculture farms are just as resource intensive as animal factory farms. Because of this, they felt eating more plants was not a viable environmental solution.

I can’t agree with these comments at all.

Many of the industrial farms are subsidized and now support the feeding of the factory farmed animals. So these farms are the first cog in an extreme energy and resource suck.

I’ve heard similar numbers before, but Dr. Cousens says that you can feed 200 people with the amount of food it takes to feed 10 cows.

Feeding 200 with grain is much more efficient than feeding 10. There’s also a tremendous amount of water used for the grain needed to feed the cows as well.

But, let’s look at reality here as well, you can’t feed those 200 people GMO corn – which is what many of these industrial farms are producing.

We need stop the subsidies to replace these crops and devise a new system in order for the environment and the global population to benefit from the food that is being grown.

That’s the most daunting task of all.

4. Problems with the low fat vegan diet.

Dr. Cousens explains that one of the biggest clinical challenges he sees with low fat vegan diets is that these eaters do not have enough omega 3 oils, are at risk for reduced brain development and regeneration, and can have damage to neurotransmitter receptors. This makes total sense, considering they eat relatively little fat at all – in this case – if you don’t eat it, you can’t get it.

But to be clear, Dr. Cousens also says 70% of the population as a whole is deficient omega 3, so it’s not limited to low fat vegans.

He also clinically sees people with low vitamin A, vitamin D, vitamin K, and B vitamins. The first 3 are fat soluble vitamins, so it’s likely those eating a low fat diet will be low in these as well.

One of the biggest rubs I have with many of the low fat advocates, is that they also don’t believe in testing as a benchmark to determine health.

So if they’re not testing these levels and they say they’re fine, we really don’t know if they’re deficient or not until they start showing outward signs of – in the case of low DHA and EPA – insanity.

5. Dr. Cousens says his diet is very high in minerals.

I would agree.

One sign of sufficient minerals is maintaining your hair color. Minerals support the adrenals and when your adrenals are strong – you have strong Jing energy – your hair is less likely to turn gray.

Dr. Cousens does not have much gray, if any. (I’ve seen him in person many times as well, and don’t believe he dyes his hair.)

5. “Can’t confuse a long term diet with a treatment diet.”

One of the best and most resonant quotes of Dr. Cousens’ talk was this.

“You can’t confuse a long term diet with a treatment diet.”

Treatment can require different circumstances that are not appropriate for long term application.

I think many of us who are into raw food have believed that raw food is the only long term solution (you may still believe this.) While this belief isn’t necessarily incorrect, it’s not 100% right for everyone either.

Sometimes the treatment runs its course and you need to switch up what you’re doing to thrive.

6. In today’s conditions, you can’t get all you need from food.

I wish this statement was not true, but evidence of mineral depletion is available that proves we’re not getting the same amount of nutrients that we used to be.

This does add to the argument that we may need supplementation (not excessive) that is supportive of our nutrient needs.

You can determine this by testing and determining what is valuable and what works for you.

7. Studies on vegan babies.

Dr. Cousens shares some interesting research on vegan children and their growth up to 4 years.

In a comparative study on vegan children done by two of his Master’s students, the researchers found that vegan babies at birth were in the top 88 percentile in height at birth. At years 1-4 they were in the upper 50-60th percentile.

This is promising research – at least up until 4.

I would like to see further research through the developmental process, which I’m sure will come out eventually – if it’s promising for vegans!

If it’s not, we’ll likely never know.

8. You can find a negative example for any issue… meat eaters go crazy, raw foodies with deficiencies.

If you look for it, you will find it.

Dr. Cousens makes this very clear.

If you want to find a group of raw foodists who lose their teeth, you’ll find them. If you want to find a meat eater who goes crazy, you’ll find one (in fact a lot!)

His point, and mine too, is that we really can’t use these extreme examples to prove a point and create fear about diet.

We need to look at the overwhelming evidence of people doing well on a diet, not the crazies.

What we can determine from this evidence is that if you eat a lot of plants, exercise, manage stress, like your life, and have lots of friends chances are you’ll be OK.

If not, you’ll be one of the extreme examples no matter what you eat. 🙂

9. “One of the problems with both the meat eating world AND the vegan world is that they don’t want to hear any science that they don’t agree with.”

The best quote of the 2 hours. Maybe even of 2011.

10. Dr. Cousens shares that we can’t look to the past for all our solutions.

I agree, but I also think we need to rewind a bit first before we go forward.

Basically, I think it might be valuable to erase the “progression” – not what we’ve learned – of our diets over the last 50-60 years and start over with the knowledge we now have.

To heal the planet, we need to be reconnected to the earth. The last 50-60 years have literally unplugged us from our energy source.

11. Other points:

– Science can prove that you can eat meat as a condiment and live healthy. Dr. Cousens acknowledges that this is true. I respect him for explaining this. If you want spiritual enlightenment, as Dr. Cousens explains, you will have to eliminate the animal foods.

– Live food successfully treats inflammation.

– There is a clinical use for salt when you have adrenal weakness or possible low blood pressure. Flat, patent statements against anything can get you in trouble, since food can be medicine.

– You need to eat for your constitution. The reason a high carb, low fat diet doesn’t work all the time is because 60% people need high protein.

– The low sugar, live food diet is most successful for diabetics. In Dr. Cousens’ clinical research he’s seen an average drop of A1c levels of 5.6 (this indicates blood sugar levels) over a 3 week period. Other low fat, high carbohydrate diets show a 1.2-1.5 drop in 22 weeks.

– The localvore argument is relatively weak compared to other factors. If you abstain from meat, fish, and dairy 1 day a week, you save more energy and cut carbon emissions more than you would if you ate locally.

– Animal foods have more concentrated pollution. Mercury is a big problem in fish and has been for years. We can’t ignore this and the expert in the debate that says it doesn’t matter how much mercury you take in is very incorrect.

– You have a 3 times increase of risk for leukemia if you drink milk (type not qualified – which I’d like to point out.) Dairy can also cause lymphatic congestion.

Finally, I’d like to thank Dr. Cousens for continuing the discussion that was started with the Great Health Debate. My vision was to hit a big old reset button and get everyone thinking about the basics again and I think it was relatively successful.

Having the experts and having you continue the “debate” and eventually transcend it – which I think Dr. Cousens does in some aspects – is where we create meaningful, lifesaving knowledge.

UPDATE: Dr. Cousens emailed me after this posting and requested that I add these comments of his. I gladly will do so here…

1. The distinction between the lesser and the greater where we are scientific on one level does not apply to spiritual discussion. One is a philosophy and one is the science of nutrition. This is why I made the distinction. It would be great to clarify the difference between talking on a spiritual point of view (greater debate) versus a scientific point of view (lesser debate).

2. I was talking about a broader view of veganism, which I call a plant-source-only diet, is a more spiritual view without so many intellectual details. For example, bee pollen which I use is technically vegan because bee pollen comes from the flowers and not from the bees and the bees don’t ingest it in any way. At the most technical level you can say you are taking advantage of bees because you are brushing the pollen off their legs, which is true, but we are talking about a spiritual relationship that with the animals that is not a reductionist relationship where there is a flow of energy, such as in the Vedic and Torah traditions. This was the model I was sharing from all traditions who live in harmony with the animals and don’t create a wall of separation in order to do no harm.

What I am talking about is a plant-source only diet that involves a relationship with the animal kingdom, but doesn’t involve any death or the spilling of blood. This is a broader view of moving from the culture of death to the Culture of Life and Liberation.

I want to know your thoughts: What did I cover well and what did I miss from Dr. Gabriel Cousens’ talk?

**
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Kevin Gianni

Kevin Gianni is a health author, activist and blogger. He started seriously researching personal and preventative natural health therapies in 2002 when he was struck with the reality that cancer ran deep in his family and if he didn’t change the way he was living — he might go down that same path. Since then, he’s written and edited 6 books on the subject of natural health, diet and fitness. During this time, he’s constantly been humbled by what experts claim they know and what actually is true. This has led him to experiment with many diets and protocols — including vegan, raw food, fasting, medical treatments and more — to find out what is myth and what really works in the real world.

Kevin has also traveled around the world searching for the best protocols, foods, medicines and clinics around and bringing them to the readers of his blog RenegadeHealth.com — which is one of the most widely read natural health blogs in the world with hundreds of thousands of visitors a month from over 150 countries around the world.

40 COMMENTS ON THIS POST

Comments are closed for this post.

  1. Nurse Martha says:

    I find in working with patients, that each person needs to find their own set of foods that work well for them. This includes ensuring micro and macro nutrition as well as generally feeling of well being, elimination and based on blood tests.

    http://www.motherearthnews.com/nature-community/the-truth-about-vegetarianism.aspx

    This article I think gives us a good view on what monofarming is doing to the land and I haven’t heard anyone take that into account. I agree factory farming is horrible and not good for us or the animals, but we cannot continue to grow food without resting the land either. The land benefits from

  2. Veronika says:

    Even though I don’t do 80-10-10, I thought I should clarify something about the lowfat vegan folks. I know that one of the lfrv leaders, Harley (durianrider), DOES advocate blood tests, and even posts his blood test results on his YouTube channel.

    Durianrider has several videos that talk about why blood tests are useful, and his results show he’s in the healthy range for everything he got tested on (which was a lot). Interestingly, I don’t know if he tested his DHA & EPA levels. I asked him on his Facebook wall but didn’t get a response yet.

  3. Eridawni says:

    Nicely done Kevin.

    He did spend quite a bit of time clarifying Dr. Price’s studies…

    I plan to view his commentary again tonight. So powerful.

  4. Rhianna says:

    “If you want to find a group of raw foodists who lose their teeth, you’ll find them. If you want to find a meat eater who goes crazy, you’ll find one (in fact a lot!)”

    I have not heard of meat eaters “going crazy.” What is meant by this specifically? Meat eaters and vegans alike may “go crazy” (there are many forms of crazy!) and have deficiencies and tooth problems. This may depend upon the individual, their genetics and upbringing, overall state of life force/vitality, absorption of nutrients, quality of food, emotional health, stress, etc. We still belong to the same species of humans, after all.

  5. Thomas says:

    According to your hypothesis that mineral deficiencies cause hair to turn gray, Dr. Williams has a mineral deficiency. He is also a few years younger than Dr. Cousens.

    Have you ever considered genetics? Have you noticed family patterns with this? 🙂

  6. Amanda says:

    Great post! You mentioned so many interesting and important points. Thank you for drawing attention to them 🙂

  7. Mira Katyal says:

    How can we find out what is good for our individual constitution? What nutrients are missing, what organs are clogged and need to be detoxed? What food combination will lead to MY optimal health?

  8. Patricia Gran says:

    We have to look at the increase of meat consumption over the last 90 -100 years the same as processed food. The meat in the grocery stores is not the meat of 100 years ago. Nor are many of the fruits & vegetables. Eating organic meat is not enough – meat(if you are going to eat it) should be grass fed & grass finished. Raised sustainably on rotating pasture land. Ethically, this provides open, natural land for the environment. Land for bee feeding, ect. Still saving grain – though grain is not a food the human digestive track is meant to digest – so we should not be trying to feed the world with it. In its natural state, few grains are eatable. And massive grain fields strip/deplete the land. Feed the world with a vast array of vegetables, some fruit, some clean sources of animal products, be it eggs, insects, honey, ect should you choose to. Just as with knowing how our vegetables & fruit are raised and sourced, we need to know where our animal products come from and how they are raised.
    Not all meat is created equal. I most certainly would rather see some eating organic vegan or vegetarian than eating factory farmed meat fed GMO grain and pumped full of antibiotics & hormones!

  9. Frank says:

    Hey Kevin,

    It seems to come to “everyone’s right” and “everyone’s wrong”.

    I’ve been looking through the Primal Blueprint material by Mark Sisson (see also Mark’s Daily Apple). In there he emphasizes more meat and NO GRAINS (due the inflammation effect. He references to a lifstyle like Grok – our ancestor, hunter-gatherer.

    Nice if the food sources were ‘clean’ and not altered and farmed like today.

    An opinion – health reform maybe needs to look at the food industry first and maybe the non existence of physical education in the school systems. Then again that opens a can of ##### that no one would be willing to go through. (Could end a political career!)

    Any education provided on health, nutrition and physical fitness is going to be biased. People need to realize that there is no one size fits all. A no immediate cure. People need to be responsible for their health and well-being the best they can.

    Thanks

  10. QC says:

    I would like to let everyone know that I have had an intensive blood test (following Dr. William’s protocol) done after a year’s 801010 diet. The result came out great, 80% of what I tested fell in ideal range, about 18% were normal. Only my adrenal & general inflammation are slightly off. Prior to that my blood was very bad, I was having RA, chronic fatigue and IBS…

    My point is that we 811lfrv do do blood tests 🙂 and my result was not that bad, I also have sufficient minerals.

    My husband is a type 1 diabetes. He is also on the 801010 diet and doing great. He has reduced his insulin intake in half, and feeling great, full of energy with good endurance.

    Another point is that my husband and I both have long term adrenal issues. We have tried to take sea salt for therapeutic purpose, but we both found it not useful. It caused water retention in both of us. Also, we haven’t had much gray hair, at least not visible. Not sure whether it’s genetic or what…

  11. margaret p. says:

    Hi, I have found all the speakers very interesting. I am a diet controled diabetic or type 2, I have been for about 15yrs, my sugar level is about 6.5 most mornings. But has been higher, up to 23. But if I watch my sugar in take, over all I eat, it is fine. I am mostly, 75 to 80% raw, have been for 2 yrs. But I can’t consider myself cured just because I keep my blood sugar level low. As soon as eat something high in sugar, it will go up again. Like sweet potatoe, or similar. So I am wondering how Dr Gabriel Cousens can say, lowering your blood sgar level means you are cured?

  12. QC says:

    One more thing. I went to Hipporcrate for their 3 weeks program. (I believe their diet is similar to Dr. Cousens diet.) Dr. Cousens said that almost none of his diabetic patients have ketosis. 2 days after I have arrived at Hippocrate, my ketone went up to the top. The reason why most type 1 diabetes are not affected is because they have a lot of fat reserve. So they can burn their fat for fuel without ketone running too high. But my body fat was very low (under than 10% at that time), so almost immediately I got into troubles.

    What I wanted to say though, is that when people are thin, or they get to the desire weight, they should start checking their ketone. If left unchecked they might run into problems.

  13. Veronica says:

    Will someone please clarify for me what is the 80 10 10 diet?

    Veronica

  14. Mario S says:

    Thanks so much for the help. From my over 60 years of work and research as a minister- teacher I’ve experienced many of the different
    regimes for health and found what works for me;
    Mostly raw smoothies, liquids, organic produce, coconuts, seeds, nuts and alkaline ionized water. Supplements I find helpful are D3, Mineral salts, including Sodium Chlorite to elliminate all pathogens and parasites along with Zeolite to sop up the toxins, heavy metals etc.
    When I craze on commercial foods my body gets ill immediately so it must be polluted..then I take the Zeolite-AV ( AV= added Humic acid)and MMS= Sodium Chlorite and the illness vanishes quickly.
    You may want to carry these two Master Minerals esp. in this radiation age..we all need extra help and spiritual truth.
    Courage and wisdom to us all,Mario.

  15. Anne says:

    Hi there,

    I think greying hair or not has more to do with genetics. My mother is 73 and has very little grey in her black hair AND she’s eaten balanced meal including meat, dairy and eggs all her life.

    I have been mostly Vegan for the past 25 years and at 46 only have a white hair here or there but not noticeable at all.

    However my mother’s sister (my aunt) who has always been careful about what she eats had a head of white hair in her twenties.

    Anyway, all this to say that I believe greying is more genetic than acquired. Of course you can worsen your lot for sure with stress in all its forms.

  16. Gail says:

    You did great, Kevin. Sometimes I get so excited reading your blogs because I feel like I found my soul-thinker (can’s say soulMATE!)and that makes me so happy to find someone else that thinks the way I do! So, I’m delighted to see you run with it and be so successful, as well as successfully eloquent and logic in your presentation.
    I agree with Mira, #7..how do we find out what WE are; what WE need to do, what areas of healing and protocol WE need..

    LOL..I’ve taken the various quizzes to determine if I’m a this or that (as in a Protein person or a Carb person; or as in Ayurvedic – a Pitta?, etc.) and I don’t know! I’m always “all the above”! So, how can one know for sure when I always seem to be combination of everything?

    Ok..didn’t listen to the Cousens or Rainosheck. Just can’t sit at my computer, glued to it for 2 hrs with too much else to do. If I had an mp3 player and these were on mp3, then at least I could make dinner, walk the dog, put the laundry in..while listening to the talks. Otherwise, we’ll have to narrow it down to 30 minutes max.

    Item #5 is what I’ve been saying all along – yay! If I had one wish for me – it would be to go away somewhere for 90 days at one of the centers and be detoxed clean as new and then start all over again. Where would that dream place be; what would I do and then what would be the lifestyle choice then?
    Items 8 & 9 you could substitute almost any topic – money, politics, religion, etc and have the same. That’s part of the problem.
    Love where you’re at; respect where others are at and leave it alone. Be willing to learn, be willing to teach, and be willing to keep quiet when it’s time. Be willing to look for commonality.

    Love ya, Kevin!

  17. Samantha says:

    @Rhianna
    By the term “going crazy” I think Kevin is referring to part 1 (I think it was part 1…maybe it was 2?) where Dr. Cousens talked about working with a group of people who had schizophrenia and when Dr. Cousens got them to stop eating meat entirely their schizophrenia disappeared and they began to function normally. But when they went back to eating meat they became schizophrenic again. I personally am not saying that eating meat causes schizophrenia; there are many reasons why people develop mental disorders- diet, environmental, fitness level, spirtual/karmic/energetic, etc, but that’s what Dr. Cousens found through that work. That being said, there’s really no question that eating factory-farmed meat is not going to make you healthy and people are finding that animal meat is often not the best or only source of many nutrients, as some meat-eaters argue against vegetarianism/veganism. Protein is a good example of this. (If you really want good protein, go for spirulina or chlorella- much higher than in meat.)

    I also agree with Kevin and Dr. Cousens that diet is only part of the equation. Yes, you are what you eat, but you can eat the healthiest food the planet has to offer but if you’re eating it for the wrong reasons, or if you hold onto negative feelings, memories or injuries etc you’re holding yourself back from reaching a higher state of consciousness and health. You have to do things that feed your soul, not just your body- and for everyone that’s something very personal and unique that they need to explore. Sometimes people get so caught up in dogma and winning arguments that they punish themselves just to prove a point- and who really wins when that happens?

  18. Virginia Harwood says:

    I think your comments are right on!!!! Gabriel Cousens is ahead of his time and a brilliant guy…I could listen to him all day…it all reinforced my inclination to go towards all plant based diet…thanks so much Kevin for all your effort…the whole experience has been wonderful!!!

  19. Abby says:

    Full disclosure: I eat an omnivorous diet. I follow Michael Pollan’s approach of eating only “real food”, and have started leaning more and more towards a Paleo diet. I do love the Renegade Health Show, even though I’m not a veg*n or a raw foodist, I find lots of interesting information. I’m not going to tell anyone their diet is right or wrong, we all make the choices we feel are best/healthiest for us.

    I would like to address to point #3. I grew up on a farm and in a farming/ranching community. There is a HUGE difference from buying meat from your local independent farmer versus factory farmed meat from the grocery store. I’ll share some pictures I took a few months ago while back home visiting my family.

    Farmers that raise pastured livestock do so on ground that is unfit for farming. The land may be too hilly, rocky, sandy, etc.
    http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj237/abbyful/Pics/IMG_2412.jpg

    Cattle should not be fed grain. It’s bad for the cows and bad for the humans that eat the cows. (Meat from pasture-fed livestock or wild game is leaner and higher in Omega-3s.)
    In the picture, the right is beef from a pasture-raised grass-fed cow, the left is from a corn-fed cow: http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj237/abbyful/Pics/IMG_2431.jpg

    Farmers that properly feed their livestock may supplement with hay. This is rarely grown in “crops”, it is most often cut & baled grasses from ditches and waterways.
    http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj237/abbyful/Pics/IMG_2421.jpg

    Many independent farmers raise both crops and livestock. After crops are cut, they will move the livestock onto the land to eat the stubble.
    http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj237/abbyful/Pics/IMG_2406.jpg

    Cattle are also kept on the “wind farms” around where I grew up. It would be troublesome to maneuver farm equipment around all the windmill bases, but it works perfectly for pasture land.

    And as far as greenhouse gasses go, there are essentially the same number bovine as there were 500 years ago in the USA. We’ve just traded bison for domestic cattle.

  20. Kevin…you did a great job in critquing my 2 hour monologue.
    The answer to argriculture is to recreate wide scale localorganic small farms . They may be up to 10% more productive than industrial agriculure. We have started a NGO i West Africa which is doing this and our plan is to train teachrs at the Tree in intensive veganic farming.

    Lowering ones blood sugar does not cure diabetes, but if you take people off all their diabetic medications and get the FBS below 100 for 3 months it is an obvious cure as it is evidence you have returned them to their normal non-diabetic physiciology. The person missed the second half of the sentence which is with them no longer being on medications.

    As I may have pointed out in the talk, at the turn of the century the cancer rate was 1-2% in men and women which suggesets a lesser role for meat…but the interplay of toxic and radioactive concentration in animal products plus junk food, and a high sugar diet…we have a highly toxic situation.Just like with the pesticide research…one toxin does not cause too much trouble, but when you add 3 together the toxicity is greatly amplified. This research is found in Conscious Eating.
    The simple conclusion is minimize ones risk by eating low on the food chain and as much organic as possible.

    Blessings on your new move, Gabriel

  21. From recent research it is noted that Factory farming contributes to 85% of greenhouse
    gases, and few people concerned about the planet
    address this problem.

    Dr. Cousens also explained a broader understanding that the plant based
    diet brings spiritual rejuvenation and takes
    humanity into messianic times, creating “Oneness”
    and acknowledging “we are one”, something lacking
    in veganism.

  22. Ira Edwards says:

    Why blame increased disease on increased meat eating unless you first can show that on the average we eat more meat?
    Why limit changes over time to increased meat and increased processing?
    A much greater and more likely damaging change is massively increased use of vegetable fats like soy, corn, cottonseed, etc. These omega-6 fats were naturally used only in small amounts, only as we ate the seeds. These are inflammatory.
    Ira Edwards

  23. Yeah Gabriel. He’s a good guy.

  24. Jeff says:

    Hey Kevin,

    You’ve pretty much covered everything I think, except I’d like to hear Daniel Vitalis’ thoughts on Dr. Cousens’ accusations of Daniel being a proponent of Darwinism. He has never claimed to be. I don’t feel that evolution and “God” have to be separate, however. I feel the source of all creation greatly involves constant evolution and adaptation! Why do “creationists” not see that they can exist together? On a slight side note, I am absolutely convinced that the missing link between chimp and human is found within Alien intervention. Check out the History channel series “Ancient Aliens”, AMAZING!!

  25. Rita Romney says:

    Kevin, you said: ” The low sugar, live food diet is most successful for diabetics. In Dr. Cousens’ clinical research he’s seen an average drop of A1c levels of 5.6 (this indicates blood sugar levels) over a 3 week period. Other low fat, high carbohydrate diets show a 1.2-1.5 drop in 22 weeks.”

    This was confusing to me for a few reasons. First of all, I thought A1C measures blood glucose levels for two to three months. You indicated it was for a three week period.

    Also, you indicated that Dr. Cousen saw an average drop of A1c levels of 5.6. Did you mean that clients had a drop in A1c levels to 5.6 from their originally high A1c score? I’m just curious because I recently found out I have insulin resistance and so I’ve been studying up on all this new terminology, etc.

    I enjoy getting your emails, and your interviews. You have a good head on your shoulders, Kevin. Best, Rita

  26. Antonio says:

    I feel the meat and cancer debate was pretty well covered by Dr. Colin Campbell in the China Study. The higher the meat consumption, the higher the cancer rates seems to be conclusion of this long study.

    About the gray hair … genetics for sure is a factor, but genetic expression is dependant on your internal and external environment. What I have observed is that Gabriel, Brian Clement, Ann Wimore have no gray hair ? Is it the wheat grass juice ??

    About the individuality issue, strangely virtually all my clients get better when they eliminate excess in one thing and increasing foods they used to avoid. In other words give the body what it needs and eliminate what it doesn’t. I find it interesting that only humans are concerned about this while other animals pretty much all eat the same in the wild and never get sick. When I went to Hippocrates to study I observed that everyone detoxed, vegans, vegetarians and omnivores, and improved their bloodwork.

    About the grain issue, I want to agree, but how do you explain 22 years on a high grain Macrobiotic diet and lifestyle with no health issues while raising 6 children … all healthy ??

    Keep up the good work Kevin !

  27. Linda Miller says:

    Re #19 and how cattle are raised, I want to say that before I went vegan, my husband raised 2 steers a year on our 5 acres. They grass fed all summer but in winter we gave them hay. Towards time to be taken to processer, he would give them grain to fatten them up some. Our beef was SO lean. Our processor said he never had seen beef so lean. We actually had to put some oil in to fry up hamburger.

    With that said, I’m glad we don’t do that anymore.

  28. Betsy says:

    Do you read comments ongoing from previous shows and articles? Just wondering what Gabriel Cousens meant by “there have been at least 4 chernobyls that we don’t know about” that is quite a bold statement and would like to know where and when….yikes. Thanks for everything you do!!

  29. Leslie says:

    I had to briefly add that Dr. Cousens, in saying one must “eliminate animal foods” to reach spiritual enlightenment, is clearly not familiar with Tibetan Buddhism and culture. Due to their mountainous conditions and cold climate, they traditionally use animal products. The Dalai Lama, as well as many of their sages of highest attainment (for example, their physical bodies dissolving into rainbow bodies before or at the time of death) have continued to eat meat, drink the traditional yak butter tea, etc.
    Yes food can be a help for many in their spiritual development, but there are no ultimate ‘rules’ about it — Spirit/God/the Great Mystery is much more powerful than that!

  30. rachel says:

    Kevin, thank you for a great summary and for all of the work you put in to helping us all.
    I admire the ability of all of the speakers to put their experiences on the line, I do hope EVERY one of them learned from other speakers they disagreed with (thats’ progress!). I also admire Dr. Cousens, as a raw food eater, being balanced and honest about the fact that some people may need animal protien, and that some vegans/raw foodists need adjustments in their diet.
    I am a vegetarian and sometime vegan for 23 years, consuming about 75% RAW. I have made many adjustments in my diet over the years as I feel everyone should. I started off not knowing what I was doing and consumed a lot of soy and drank distilled water (acidic and leeches minerals from our body). I do thank the WAP group for their information about soy and canola oil. I find I am best with mostly raw vegetables, raw fruits, nuts/seeds, raw goat cheese (am allergic to cows’ milk), gluten free grains, but no fish, meat, or eggs (chickens eat bugs). namaste’, rachel

  31. Kuru says:

    The summary of the facts was good, but the last half of his second talk was hardly mentioned: whole person enlightenment, which as he says was the main point of his response. I enjoyed that last half so very much.

  32. lucymylove says:

    Well..Dr. Cousens..I am a Christian mother who loved your monologues..
    There is a Creator and in Psalm 1, the Lord says not to follow the counsel of the ungodly, I certainly will harken to your words!
    I believe, it is vital to take care of what I put in my body, because there is awareness, consciousness, and a powerful connection to GOD when my mind and my body are clean and clear. These open the channel..so I can communicate with The Most High..I know this to be The most important relationship..#1 priority! reason why we were created!
    I would like to buy one of your books, where I can find clear guidance with the food. I am willing..The Lord has shown me the way to heal my body..He is wonderful! I would like to hear you again. Proteins..what proteins. Many blessings.

  33. daniel says:

    If you really want a GOOD DEBATE. Why don’t you, Daniel Vitalis, David Wolfe, Durian Rider, Mark Sisson and every other “guru” in the raw food & meat eating world get a blood test that measures all your levels and compare results! Who will come out on top? Talk is cheap…

  34. Mary says:

    Noticed most people didn’t answer question of the day…too many fun other things to talk about. I like to garnish my dishes with parsley, yes and sometimes radish slices, or tomato slices and mostly sprouts!! They’re so beautiful and the beginning of LIFE! I see all humanity as One, and as a Oneness Blessing Facilitator, realize that it truly by having a shift in the physical brain, one can have the experience of Oneness! We tend to separate based upon our opinions and thinking we are “right”! Good to remember that opinions change, and at the core (our soul) we are all from one source! I liken the source as the ocean and each of us as a wave, with our own body, body-type, opinion, karma, etc. But at our essence we are one & with this new age, new foods, new lots of things, more and more folks will actually realize this. “We cannot create a new world using the tools of the old one” Many good Doctors have grown up in the old paradigm. We are the ones we’ve been waiting for….let’s use our experience and inner intuition to find what’s good for us. As a raw foodie 7 yrs. I’m fine with my choices today, sometimes eat eggs/fish…All is Well! Kev/AMarie, trust you will find a Oneness Blessing group in Oakland…(am sure they have one)you’d love the Blessings. http://www.onenessuniversity.org 🙂 oxox

  35. Andrew Chin says:

    Hello All,
    I just wanted to clarify a couple points:

    At the Tree of Life, the participants in the 21 day Reversing Diabetes had a 5.6% drop in their A1C, whereas with a high carb, low fat diet participants had a 1.2% drop in their A1C.

    80-10-10 refers to a raw food diet consisting of 80% carbs, mostly from fruit, 10% protein, and 10% fat. This diet was pioneered by Douglas Graham.

    Blessings,
    Andrew

  36. Andrew Chin says:

    Hello All,
    Just to clarify, the vegan high carb, low fat diet had a 1.2% drop in A1C over 22 weeks. This is kind of diet advocated by doctors like Esselstyn and Barnard.

    Blessings,
    Andrew

  37. Denise says:

    I took copious notes on Dr.Cousens commentary. In response to the mental issues mentioned on this thread – here is a clip of what he said:

    “Mental health disorders are primarily due to deficiencies in diet. Biochemistry also shows a strong connection to mental disorders in individuals who eat meat but can’t effectively metabolize meat. Meat eaters also show deficiencies in B3 and B6 – important in neurotransmitter production. Stress will also use up the B vitamins. Meat eaters also show deficiencies in long chain Omega 3’s. DHA will lesson depression. Most meat eaters’ body’s are way too acid, = acidity in blood is connected to paranoia, schizophrenia, neurosis, stupor, lethargy, and a low-functioning mind. Too high alkalinity will lead you to be ungrounded, anxious and lacking clarity.

    Inflammation: Meat eaters are highly inflamed. This can be brought down by 10 points in a matter of three weeks on a live foods/no meat diet. 40% less meat in a diet showed 400% increase in anti-aging genes – the anti-inflammation genes, the anti-oxidant genes, as well as the anti-cancer genes. When you cook protein, you lose 50% of the protein – it’s coagulated – and you lose 60% of the vitamins & minerals and up to 95% of the vito-nutrients. With a live food diet, you aren’t cooking, can eat half as much food, naturally lose weight, get all the nutrients, and are on an optimum longevity diet.”

    If anyone would like to have a copy of my summary, I’ll glady share, as long as there’s no copyright issues and as long as you understand it’s only a simplified version of what he said.

  38. Adam H says:

    I’ve been 99% raw for several years, and have tried various styles, including Gabriel Cousens’ low-sugar vegan and also high-fruit. I *definitely* feel that low-sugar/fruit is best. Eating lots of fruit did not create a good consciousness or clarity for me. However, I felt lacking on the Cousens diet, too. Now I’m including raw goat’s cheese in my diet, and I’m feeling a lot better! My only question- where can I find *unsalted* raw goat’s cheese? Does anyone have a lead? I’m desperate- I really don’t salt; it feels like a stimulant.

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