Expert Reveals His Personal Challenges with the 100% Raw Food Diet : Exclusive Renegade Health Interview

Tuesday Mar 8 | BY |
| Comments (75)

After the Great Health Debate, David Rainoshek (an author and researcher) contacted me to ask if he could share some of his insight and experiences with the raw food diet over the past 10 years or so.

We chatted on the phone for a while and he convinced me that what he had to say was respectful, thoughtful and worthy of publishing here on Renegade Health.

The format is a little different than normal, because we’ve done a 2 hour interview and it will be in 2 parts. I also will add my commentary at the bottom, so you can see what I think about what David is sharing!

Listen to Part 1 here:


Click the play button to start the call:


Here are some notes that I want to share with you about this first part of the interview with David Rainoshek:

1. David Rainoshek is a smart guy.

I know this sounds silly, but I really can’t state it any other way.

Yes, he’s an author and health researcher who has a Master’s Degree in Raw and Vegan Nutrition from the Tree of Life Rejuvenation Center in Patagonia, AZ, etc.

But, there are some people who you just know are smart. David is one of them. He stands out among his peers.

He’s also diligent. He’s a true researcher.

During his work at The Tree of Life, he was immersed in the raw food literature, science and practice. During that time and just after, I had a chance to meet him and enjoyed many of the insights he shared to develop my own diet and philosophy.

Since then, we’ve checked in from time to time and when he told me he was up to something new, I truly wanted to hear about it.

2. What every expert knows about diet is partial.

In this interview, David explains that every dietary truth is partial.

This means everyone is right, but not 100% right. Our thoughts are all partial truths that are based on our own experience as well as past and present beliefs.

I like the way David shares this, because it is respectful and acknowledges everyone has something to contribute to the diet discussion – whether it’s vegan, raw food, paleo, or anything else.

As someone who’s interviewed hundreds of health experts in the last 4-5 years, I know that he’s right. (I guess, partially… LOL!)

There have been times when I’ve connected experts to discuss some of the things each other shared in their interviews, because I’m sure that one or the other had not fully heard all sides of the argument. They both knew something, but maybe weren’t seeing the whole picture.

The idea here is to promote teamwork, not division in the health world. Sometimes it works, sometimes not.

I think when everything really gets scrambled is when we view everything an expert says as complete fact – or 100% right. I’ve done it before and am almost ashamed to admit it.

This, based on the principle that no one is 100% right, is when we begin to move from exploring diet (and what works for us) to fundamentalism or guru worship.

The fundamentalist or guru-follower believes that there is only one answer and that it is 100% correct.

When you do this, you lose your own power to make decisions based on convincing and truthful evidence.

So for instance, when I first started to introduce cooked foods into my diet after eating 100% raw for a while, I believed that cooked foods were poison to my body.

I had been fed a black or white (right or wrong) belief system that was not 100% right.

Not all cooked foods are poison to the body – cyanide is poison to the body. (But even that in certain forms and very small amounts can be relatively non-toxic – think, a form of B12 called cyanocobalamin.)

Finally, my acceptance that my belief may have been a little incorrect allowed me to grow and get some of my energy back (on foods that “should” have been poisoning me!)

3. Let’s start where everyone agrees and move from there.

The purpose of the Great Health Debate was to do just this…

Erase the chalkboard and start over.

Through my previous interviews before the debate, I was finding there were truths that needed to be shared and others that needed to be exposed.

By opening up all channels (or as many as my sanity allowed), my goal was to put it all out on the table.

It’s like I was calling all the experts to show their hand in a poker game and asking them to put the cards they have on the table. No more bluffing, no more hiding – what they have is exactly what they have.

But, my intention wasn’t to expose them, it was to learn.

So the vegan, raw food, paleo, and other health food ideas were represented to distill exactly what each had in common – not to focus on the differences.

Once we identify what we have in common, as David shares, we then have the opportunity to move forward together.

4. Integrating all truths is difficult, if not impossible.

David’s mission is to understand and categorize all the dietary truths and put together a framework to understand what we really should eat.

It’s a noble task, but I wonder if it ever has a happy ending.

Meaning – I wonder if we’ll ever figure it out at all.

The one thing that I hold close to me as a truth is that we can survive very well on a high raw, high plant based diet.

This is comforting, because if we can move the masses to this realization it will end much of the animal suffering, broaden our consciousness and allow us to focus on things that really matter like deepening our relationships and being of service to others.

5. The new diet center of gravity.

The biggest takeaway from this first half of the interview was when David talked about moving our center of gravity.

In the past, my center of gravity was at 100% raw food. Since then it’s moved. I’ve kept many of the principles of 100% raw food in my diet, but have just readjusted a bit.

It’s almost like moving the back of the recliner a few inches to get better rest.

Changing the center of your gravity is sometimes misinterpreted as jumping ship or switching sides. This is so ridiculously far from the truth.

In my view, there are no sides. We all should be focused on the same mission, which is trying to change the way our food system is. Once that’s taken care of, then we can talk about how many plant and animal foods are acceptable, necessary or unnecessary for your personal needs.

6. You can learn something from everyone.

I’ve always made it a point to listen to everyone.

At times it’s hard to stomach what they’re saying, but I always listen.

For me, this helps me understand where they’re coming from and appreciate their point of view – whether I agree with it or not.

In my past, I’ve learned about hardwork from lazy bosses. I’ve learned about beating addiction from alcoholics. I’ve learned lessons about love from people who cheat on their significant others.

It may sound crazy, but I may not be who I am today if I didn’t bother to listen.

If you ever meet me in person, you know I ask a LOT of questions. Why?

I want to know.

I ask, because if I get to know you enough, you’ll likely teach me something I never knew.

7. What will help us heal may be different than what can help us as a maintenance diet.

One of the biggest personal realizations that I’ve had over time is that most people (including myself) get this mixed up.

I used to believe that the raw food diet – 100% – was good for everyone, all the time.

My view has changed, because I’ve seen people suffer on the diet. This evidence taught me that I needed to be more tolerant and maybe my truth wasn’t true.

I think the biggest mistake people make is that they get great results on the raw food diet, but then this shortsightedly makes them believe this is what will work for the rest of their lives.

What will cleanse you, may not maintain you.

Now, I have to be clear, the raw food diet MAY work for you for the rest of your life, and if it does, I don’t want to discourage you from continuing.

I just want to emphasize, how incredibly honest and truthful you need to be when assessing your health so you don’t cause any irreversible harm.

I also need to explain this…

The raw food diet is fantastic for cleansing, or even long term, but it can have its shortfalls when done too long. I’ve seen them with my own eyes.

The best advice is to keep a watch, get tested and be true to yourself to determine when you need to switch things up – if you ever do.

Part 2 and my commentary coming up tomorrow! In this second half, David explains why he’s no longer 100% raw vegan and more…

I want to know your thoughts: What do you think of Part 1?

Live Awesome!

Kevin Gianni

Kevin Gianni is a health author, activist and blogger. He started seriously researching personal and preventative natural health therapies in 2002 when he was struck with the reality that cancer ran deep in his family and if he didn’t change the way he was living — he might go down that same path. Since then, he’s written and edited 6 books on the subject of natural health, diet and fitness. During this time, he’s constantly been humbled by what experts claim they know and what actually is true. This has led him to experiment with many diets and protocols — including vegan, raw food, fasting, medical treatments and more — to find out what is myth and what really works in the real world.

Kevin has also traveled around the world searching for the best protocols, foods, medicines and clinics around and bringing them to the readers of his blog — which is one of the most widely read natural health blogs in the world with hundreds of thousands of visitors a month from over 150 countries around the world.


Comments are closed for this post.

  1. Janet says:

    David mentions B12 as cyanocobalamin. Cyanocobalamine is the WRONG form of B12 to use in any situation. It poisons the methyl pathways, which are your detox pathways. Mike Adams interviewed the makers of Ola Loa and in that interview you learn that cyanocobalamin is used in many products (not theirs) because it is cheap. The better (non-toxic) forms of B12 are methylcobalimine and hydroxycobalamin. Note: If you are black or of Irish decent, if you take B12 as cyanocobalamine then you likely have a genetic mutation to it and it is really toxic to you. Cyanocobalamine can make you go blind. I know this because I have some Irish in me and I took a blood test to find this out.

    Here is a link to that interview

  2. Steve says:

    I’ve been listening to you for a while now Kev and appreciate your transparency about your diet and health challenges. You know there are alot of ‘experts’ who exclaim a certain diet yet they ‘cheat’. Not judging…just saying that just because it sounds good on paper or ‘makes sense’ doesn’t make it true. Life is not about diet alone but many other factors anyway.

    Sometimes I’ve seen people who eat cooked animals products, packaged goods and ice cream look, act and feel healthier then some raw vegans or fruitarians that I’ve seen(not a bash on them its just reality).

    What I find is that those that become obsessive fanatics (I was one…so again not judging) about their diet are the ones with the most emotional problems or hurts. Changing ones diet is very powerful but I don’t believe that it alone can solve everyone’s problems.

    What is the original diet of humans?? What is the optimal diet??

    No one really knows for sure but we do know this……..

    If you look at some of the healthiest and long lived people on the planet we see similarities:

    -Fresh air and sunshine
    -Loving relationships
    -Lots of plants and…..
    yes, some animals products (I know that hurts some people to read that but look at the facts and you’ll see)

    We need to look at what food is……IT’S JUST FOOD. I think we sort of disrespect our body’s strength and intelligence by thinking that it can’t handle certain toxins and start avoiding EVERYTHING as if we will die if we eat it.

  3. Lynda says:

    This article is actually..a relief! We have been on an alkaline diet for 2 years, initally to relieve the symptoms of rheumatoid arthritis in my husband which it did. For the last 6 months we have not been as strict and have introduced back some cooked foods and some that are acid while still maintaining the alkaline diet about 70% of the time but it doesn’t seem to have affected him. I was worried that we were doing the wrong thing and he would slide back into pain but this article makes it clear that it is different for everyone. Thanks so much, looking forward to part 2.

  4. hyesun says:

    hey kevin,

    thanks for this interview – i’m downloading it now to listen to later when i have time, but i read your notes about it. i look forward to listening to it.

    on another note, i posted this yesterday but i think it relates much more to today’s blog. it’s a very interesting excerpt from an article about longevity that i found on the wallstreet journal website:

    Earlier this year, researchers at the U.K.’s University of Cambridge and the Medical Research Council reported that people who exercise regularly, don’t smoke, limit their alcohol intake and eat five servings of fruit and vegetables a day live, on average, 14 years longer than people who didn’t.

    Yet, there is little evidence of an abstemious lifestyle among the 450 people between the ages of 95 and 110 enrolled in the Longevity Genes Project at Albert Einstein College of Medicine. There are no vegetarians. At least a third of them were obese in middle-age. A third have been smoking tobacco for 40 years or more, despite health warnings. “I have a woman who recently celebrated 91 years of cigarette smoking,” says Dr. Barzilai. “She is 106 now.”

    so………i think diet has a lot to do with longevity, but just like steve said above, there are many factors OTHER than food that are attributed to longevity. i think that’s what’s missing for me when i listen to “health experts”. they mostly focus on diet.

  5. What will cleanse you, may not maintain you. ah, some truth. so what’s wrong with Guru worship? Isn’t Tree of Life based on the Guru?

  6. Carol Lani Johnson says:

    Appreciate David’s broadening perspective and willingness to consider evolving needs. Life is ever-changing. Beliefs actually have a huge impact. Staying open on all levels, esp open-hearted is very healthy.

  7. Paula says:


  8. I’m amused. Eating a balanced diet of real foods that we enjoy puts us on the highest level of eating spirituality. Who would have thought? Just joking with you… kind of. Its what I’ve been teaching all along.

    I will say that I am glad to see the end of dangerous trends. I think most of us who write on the subject truly want people to enjoy better health and better lives. I know you do Kevin. I’ve been on your list a long time. Its been interesting to watch your transformation.

    I may pick on you sometimes, but I’m glad you’re heading in the right direction.

  9. lucymylove says:

    I am keeping your web-site! What cleanse you may not maintain you.
    I love the comment of Steve..It is just FOOD. What do you think of “Primal body/primal mind” book?..what about “The vegan Myth”
    Here I am trying to decide…Doctor Young pH miracle impressed me..
    I am a mother of 4 beautiful children and I need to know what to feed them..not to follow David Wolfe..or some other “Guru” but to teach them to nurture their bodies ..The temple of The Holy Spirit.What are the symptoms of Alkaloidisis? I am doing green-er Smoothies..(low fruit).but after I drink them I get terrible headaches. I read someone said her children got cavities from the green smoothies??
    So many questions..Divine wisdom we all need..who really knows what they ate thousands of years ago?..Some people talk about it like they were all there…I have been Dx with a tumor in my pituitary..time for cleansing!..the maintenance is up to God..He is able and willing.
    good night…blessings, many, to all!

  10. Jonathan says:

    hey all,
    You know, one thing that i rarely hear mentioned is karma. some people do live long, short or in between, and apparently having nothing to do with lifestyle or diet.
    Obviously they matter. Having said that , we often think we are soooo in control of our destiny that we think that diet alone will extend our lives.
    Our constitutional health at the time of birth or our dosha has so much to do with our past karma in past lives. Eating clean, raw, vegan or vegetarian is certainly better karmically, causing relatively less suffering, and less stressful on the body. It is better for the mind and senses, so improves quality of life. Lots of factors here, but lets remember, dosha at birth, or in chinese medicine, ancestral chi., the chi coming from parents at time of conception. theser are all factors, not just what you do now. Of course do the best we can now, just know, karma is there.

  11. Danielle says:

    Thank you, your comment was a breath of “fresh air”…
    I also have gone through my “strict” phases and wondered why people eating all kinds of things I considered poison looked and felt fine. I’ve become not so rigid in my views/habits and it’s been a healthy choice for me.
    Also the willingness to change when it’s appropriate to do so is key. Becoming obsessed is not helpful. I still have to listen to the interview and I will check back in!!

  12. Stepheny says:

    I am SOoooo excited to hear someone in the Raw Food movement talking about Ken Wilber!!!!!! I am helping establish more integral approaches to education. We have needed the integral framework in the approach to food for a long time. THANK YOU KEVIN and THANK YOU DAVID.

    Please DAVID, Get a book out there that deals with your journey, where you are now and how you have used Wilber’s work to create a nutrition frame work. I like your spectrum of nutrition and I look forward to seeing it from the perspective of where you are today.

    THANK YOU< THANK YOU< THANK YOU for doing this!!!! This is HUGE for the Raw, Vegan community. Keep it up and keep getting this out there in front of people so they can be part of this conversation.

    Love and Blessings to you for all your work,

  13. ABoyNamedMoon says:

    David is creating an intellectual framework for making a point to us. He is clearly very articulate, but what does it mean in the long run? Is it true? Does it resonate with our own inner guidance? Is it true because such and such an author has a similar paradigm? I respect Ken Wilber, but should his way of thinking be the lens we use to discern what diet is right for us, or which diet is higher on the ladder of spiritual evolution? Why is David (or Ken) qualified to establish the framework and vocabulary for dietary ascension? The true masters of the mind and body have transcended food altogether, regardless if they live in a warm or cold climate. From breatharians to Taoist monks, they have learned to live primarily off the subtle energy of the universe instead of food. It may seem far-fetched for many of us, but it is truly possible. It has been done for hundreds of years. All it means is that we don’t have the knowledge to go there quite yet. You can’t teach what you don’t know, so if nobody in OUR culture knows it, it won’t be taught to us!

  14. Joe W. says:

    I was hoping the conversation would evolve in this direction. I believe David has provided a great model for integrating the various perspectives from the debate. Regarding the metaphor of floors in a building, I’d like to have more discussion about expanding our perspective to leaving the building all together. Beyond Integral. The debate seems to linger because because we have approached the issue from the bottom rung. I propose we incorporate a top down approach, meaning, we view it from the perspective that “we are Spiritual Beings having a human experience”, rather than the current approach of “we are human’s trying to figure out what is optimal to eat and how to be more spiritual, etc.” We are all aware of the connection between body, mind and spirit. If we agree that we are Spiritual Beings and our mind and body are derived from spirit, then why not begin at the pinnacle when looking for solutions? It seems to me that all of the issues and debates dissolve and the answers are clear when we are aware of our collective consciousness. I don’t believe Consciousness does diets, that’s a mind phenomenon. Robert Scheinfeld’s and Jed McKenna books and materials are a great supplement to the work of Ken Wilber.

  15. Courtney says:

    wow… great lecture. integral theroy applied to diet. loved it! thanks to you both Kevin and David. MUCH RESPECT~ one love

  16. David moved to Canada and felt cold on
    raw food. If the circulation is good,
    by exercise, getting enough sunlight,
    having emotional poise, drinking pure water,
    fasting to cleanse and purify the body,
    and improving the circulation, and eating
    organic high quality raw balanced diet, then,
    one does not feel cold in Canada,
    I am Canadian all my life and I do not
    feel cold on raw food. I was raised on a farm,
    but I do not have to eat animals to give me
    warmth and good circulation,
    David try fasting, cleansing, and see how
    the body feels warm on raw food, all the time,
    in cold Canada. Food is not the only item that
    keeps us warm….it is love, service meditation, and
    living life to the fullest.

  17. HopandSkip says:

    I tried to download the free copy…right click and save as did not work. 🙁 Boo hoo.

  18. gary says:

    this guy is so boring

  19. Stepheny says:

    What “aboynamedmoon’ is saying is easily recognized within an integral framework if one wants it there. If you are familiar with Wilber’s framework I believe breatharians, etc….. would be placed within the third tier.

  20. Ira Edwards says:

    Do you know the meaning of nutritonism, or the more extreme, orthorexia nervosa? Our stress over right eating cam be more damaging than wrong eating.
    For medicine, I find orthomolecular is rational and evidence-based. For nutition, Weston A Price foundation. But you probably won’t find an orthomolecular doctor in your area, and most of us don’t have forty acres of grass to feed our animals. So, we do what we can, within reason, in our little space and with our little knowledge.
    The person who in on a mission to eat right may be marginally healthier than one who simple uses good judgement. Having good information is often the limiting factor, because we have a glut of questionable claims that may have greins of truth, whether vegan, raw or whatever.
    The person who uses good judgement may be marginally healthier than a careless person. Then there are those who destroy their health with sugar, drugs, and bad behavior, who often die young. I count a number from all these groups among my friends.
    Is it proper here to tell that I have obsessively studied nutrition twenty years, since age 60? I wrote HONEST NUTRITION which is on Amazon; PRE-PAIN and NUTRITION BABEL which you can only find by contacting me directly at 845 W. 12th St. in Medford, OR. I am not in business, and give away more books that I sell, and sell at a loss. I hope by these means to help a few people to better health.
    Ira Edwards

  21. Maria says:

    Thank you! This was refreshing!After having listened to the health debates, I came away with this overwhelming feeling of how any of those diets ofcourse could have been very healing, just by the mere fact that they eliminated some of the problematic substances in peoples diets, or because it was the perfect antidote for the particular person’s inbalances…but that doesn’t mean they are suitable for all constitutions or all health challenges, over a long period.I have been vegetarian since I was 12. I had four children and nursed 13 years on a mostly vegan diet. I am now 51. In the years in between I have been macrobiotic,vegan, raw vegan, sproutarian, fruitarian, mono fruitarian,etc. and felt terrific (better than ever)for a period of time on all of them!Now I am really attempting to embrace being a non-rigid-tarian and am very weary of food fanaticism… and the separation it can cause. I am fully cognizant of the fact that on an ethical level I am having a difficult time considering animal consumption, even though it seems that many of the vegetarians around me are having positive results from the Weston Price type ideas…I relate to David’s dark night experience as many vegans and raw vegans have experienced. I am journeying through a health challenge which has led me to dig deeper in my attunement to what optimally serves this body, and will help it to rebuild… I look forward to hearing the second part of this interview, and I just want to express my gratitude for your efforts to bring this conversation to so many!

  22. Tina says:

    Thanks Steve for your rational comments.

    I agree with you about those that live the longest.

    Try reading The Blue Zones. This book is about the longest living ‘tribes’ in the world (including the US). The common denominator in all these groups of people is:
    Simple stress free lives; a spiritual connection (whatever that may be to the individual); a sense of love and community; exercise as a part of daily life; a simple, clean diet predominently plant and grain based with small amounts of animal products.

    I think it is too easy to become obsessed with a chosen eating pattern which I believe borders on an eating disorder. Remember life is to be enjoyed – do you really want to be the biggest bore at the party because you will only eat this or couldn’t possibly allow that to pass your uptight pursed superior lips?

    Pebbles and rocks are a good analogy: If you throw a few pebbles at the window, the glass won’t break – if you throw some rocks at the window the glass will break. All things in moderation and enjoy life!

  23. lise simonsen says:

    Hey i was just thinking, what is your oinion about the bloodtype diet? Lise

  24. lise simonsen says:


  25. Ronna says:

    Thanks Kev for giving us another view. Food is a part of everyones life and in our huge world each region eats differently. I agree there is more to life than just food. It’s a whole integration of one’s life. David made a comment that we need to begin where everyone agrees upon. I don’t know if I agree with this. At one time the world thought that the world was flat. We know better now. Just because everyone may agree on something doesn’t make it correct. A theroy that is based on a incorrect thought leads us away from the truth, but we aren’t aware of it. Just a thought that popped into my head.

  26. Den says:

    It all goes back to just plain common sense. Our nation is sooo confused about food that it’s really, really sad. A friend once sent me an article that explained the difference between raw vegan and Weston A. Price philosophy. They both agree on everything from soaking, sprouting raw nuts/whole grains, eating raw as much as possible, incorporating good saturated fats (cuz you need them), no soy/wheat (if you’re keeping abreast on your reading), lots of organic vegetables/fruits, supporting small, organic local farmers and food processors/artisans, eliminating processed foods, fermenting and lastly, doing away with inhumane animal treatments in conventional animal factory farms.

    The only difference is the animal fats and protein and no animal fats and protein. If you’re not feeling well and needing to add “some” animal fat/protein to your diet, please consider reading up on the wonderful health benefits of humanely raised, grassfed/pastured meats, poultry, eggs, raw dairy/milk etc. from wonderful small family farms in your area who have a lot of respect and knowledge about how they farm and treat their animals. The quality is like night and day. This is another way to support and encourage small local farms and not the big animal factory farms you see in the documentary, “Food Inc.”.

    Kevin, thanks for being honest and true to yourself!

  27. Den says:

    I forgot to add that I agree with “what will cleanse you may not maintain you” for the long term. It’s also fair to say that if you are fighting a debilitating disease, then do a cleansing diet. We should be able to move freely into all the different realms of diet and nutrition without guilt. That is truly peace.

  28. Nicola Harrison says:

    The scientific fact is that the body is alkaline by design and acidic by function – understand that and you will know all…

  29. oreganol says:

    Keep it coming Kev. I learn so much just listening to these shows. This is stuff I’ve never been exposed to in the past and it is interesting to hear about all these different perspectives.

    I can’t help thinking though that we are missing out on life my being so focused on diet all the time. Eating should be a simple activity, but we have transformed it into something entirely different. Maybe we just need to get back to basics and not worry about it too much.

  30. kerim says:

    It is definitely true that there are no rights and wrongs in life. And indeed there are personal experiences and collective experiences. Its strange however to defend eating meat or any type of animal food when even the most conservative conventional scientists agrees its harm to our body. Its not a rocket science to find out that cooking food kills most of its nutritional values and in only few cases (like tomato). However consensus based discussions are very civilized yet does not have an conclusive results. collective experience shows that cooked food cause more harm than benefit to our bodies.

  31. Dear Kevin,

    I really enjoyed the great health debate interviews, and this article is great too. I was wondering if you know about the Institute for Integrative Nutrition led by Joshua Rosenthal? I am in the middle of their program, and what you discuss your last article, that there is not one diet that is always perfect for everyone during their whole lives, is the core principle of the program. There is one aspect that he adds, and that I find very valuable: we not only get nourished by the food we eat, but also by what he calls primary food: relationships, exercise, career and spirituality. This makes that you can be still healthy on a less than perfect diet, when you are happy with your life, but also that you can get unhealthy eating perfect food, if your diet isolates you.

  32. Dave says:

    We can’t have the people at the party thinking we’re boring now can we?

  33. Carmen says:

    Hi Kevin, I dont know… It just seems to me that no matter what you eat, you can motivate that it has benefit, so if you want to pig out on a SAD diet, or a mixed diet or whatever, you can convince yourself that it has merit. Raw food is good for you, cooked food is not, no matter how you dress it up. Sounds like justification to me.

  34. Yogi Suzi says:

    The Great Health Debate had me swinging back and forth, wanting to incorporate animal foods in, and then not so sure if I could or would. I so totally appreciate those who speak their truth. Thank you David and Kevin. I listened to ALL of the interviews at least 2 times from the debate and took lots of notes. At the end, I was left with only one choice: to take the best from each. I have taken what I like from religions of the world over the years and yes, it makes perfect sense to take what resonates with us most in the world of nutrition and to apply it.
    Integral Nutrition. Feeding the body, mind, and spirit. I love these concepts!!!!

  35. Tom says:

    Integral theory is very good for situating how important nutrition is in the grand scheme of things. For anyone interested in their own evolution, it’s less than 25% of the picture.

  36. Georgia Barnwell says:

    wow, thanks so much for opening up this dialogue. It’s really important.

  37. Adriana says:

    great photo of david communing with wheatgrass

  38. Den says:

    Actually, you don’t get invited to the party boring or not.

  39. B~ says:

    Is this guy going to be there to make sure the animals are psychologically prepared and comfortable and not cold or treated like slaves on a property is it all about him? I really could have done without the first 45 min of his philosophy on life. It’s a sales pitch set up to me, or so it seems. I can appreciate open mindedness, I live by it, but cannot tolerate brain washing brain washing techniques. I find it dilutes any statement made after that.

    This is all well and good, when you include what’s best for the animals and not just ourselves. So for instance if I am on a path to longevity and having the best day ever, I am not going to be having the best day ever by creating the worst day for another creature.

    If all you want to talk diet, feel free. But if you want to talk about boundaries and crossing them then be prepared to put your money where your mouth is and really look for alternatives that create win win situations not a one size fits all program for mass slaughter. Btw, dairy creates slaughter. I am doing research into this new “humane” small farming and finding they are not always on the level.

  40. Wow! What a deep and thought-provoking system of how to look at life and diet. I have been disturbed by the bomb-throwing attacks that some raw foodists throw at each other…This is a great interview, looking forward to the next part.

  41. Ron Venne says:

    Hi Kevin,

    Thanks for posting this interesting interview. It further illustrates the ongoing trend of relief from raw food fanaticism. As you know, i am a lifelong vegetarian, what would be considered a lacto/ovo vegetarian about 70% of which has been uncooked. With that said, I do not drink milk and I have never even eaten a piece of cheese, but I do intuit that anything that is freely presented and has never drawn a breath is quite acceptable to put on the table.

    And, as I approach the venerable 60, I have yet to have experience any physical malady whatsoever. Even more curious is the fact that when injured, this body heals almost instantly.

    About ten years ago, I was invited to speak at the World Raw Food Symposium. All the usual luminaries were there and as David mentioned, the heavily repeated mantra was “you are what you eat.”

    Well, I felt that this perspective was substantially incomplete and frankly sadly lacking. So, the first words pout of my mouth in my talks were I am here to tell you that you are FAR MORE than what you eat, you are what you eat,THINK, FEEL and EMOTE!

    The emphasis that I placed on the latter facets are really what I attribute my phenomenal health history to. I in no way discount the role of diet in the equation, and i have been blessed in having one that has always included live foods, but when asked about my flawless health, I always respond by saying that I merely “intend it.”

    More “food for thought! ” 🙂

    Great day your way! 🙂 Ron

  42. Sheila Jayson says:

    David has some info that should share the info he has that has not been publicly disclosed.

  43. Debbie says:

    ‘What will help us heal may be different than what can help us as a maintenance diet.’

    In a nutshell, this is EXACTLY my conclusion on eating raw for 2 1/2 years then changing it up to include a bigger variety of foods.

    And i am fighting chronic leukemia. So you can heal/clean out to the best your body can do, but you MUST rebuild or face even worse health challenges.

    Again, this is my experience, but I can’t help but notice that many of my former raw vegan friends feel the same way now.


  44. brian says:

    Hey Guys, Listen to it again, It was tough enough the first time! I enjoyed it ! being new to this thought about food and health, and how all i have to do is eat the food that “GOD” created and my body will heal its, according to the damage I have done to it.. This Guy is smart, and a wonderful illustrator… I couldn’t help but think, what a great believer this guy would be!! I am having such a profound experience in my journey toward food for the stomach and stomach for food… Love you guys!! Thanks brian

  45. Tammy says:

    @Halanna Matthew
    Maybe you missed the point of the discussion. One type of diet doesn’t always work for everyone. Everyone is different, with different bodies, backgrounds, health issues, heritage, etc. 100% raw works for you in Canada in the cold but it didn’t work for David. He is a knowledgeable guy who was extremely devoted to raw (like he said–his career was based on it) and it took him 1 1/2 years to begin to incorporate cooked in to his diet. Just because something works great for you doesn’t mean then, that it is going to give everyone else the exact same results. We all want to feel the absolute best we can. It’s a trial and error journey to find what works for each of us. And, it seems, that when we find what works, it may be only what’s needed for the present state of our bodies. As we heal those needs change. As we age those needs change. They key is to be aware of those changes and listen to our body. It speaks to us…we need to listen. David listened.

  46. Ineke says:

    Mike Adam’s and Sean Croxton’s “resume” of the great health debate were not bad but David Rainoshek’s contribution about the whole topic gives it a whole different dimension and a superb ending!

    It was a great decision from your part to let him speak.

  47. Ira Edwards says:

    For most of my life, I ate what was available and cheap. Money was scarce. I never ate much of what we call junk food, because that was not the cheapest. Now I am 80 an in perfect heatlh. I can’t believe that if I had spent 3 times as much for healthier foods amd worried every day about how heathy they were, that I would be any better off now.
    Long ago, I went through medical school and learned biochemistry and physiology well, though nothing useful about nutrition. That has helped me much the last 20 years, as I tried to learn what was useful in the mass of nutitional claims from many sources. Much of it leads to worry and nutritionism, little to good health. That includes these debates and comments. I still don’t eat much raw, and I eat lots of fat, with good scientific reason.
    Ira Edwards

  48. Susan Laing says:

    Loved this! I agree with what David says here and I like how he used the his words~ choosing them carefully~ and giving people their power! Very positive(;

  49. elise says:

    I was a raw foodist for two years. I healed from many ailments, but have transitioned back into eating animal products and cooked foods. I am still confused at times and suffer from terrible guilt when I eat animal products even though my body seems to crave it. How do you get over the “emotional” addition to eating raw and/or some other strict restricted diet. I am still having trouble with that aspect.

  50. sharon says:

    It’s so interesting to hear the relationship of Wilber’s Integral Theory to diet. Am eager to hear the 2nd part of the interview. I’m probably not going to like what I anticipate as including animal products into a higher level diet. I’ll save my comments for tomorrow, but I can’t see how one could leave the “compassion” part of the vegan level behind.

  51. Maria says:

    What works for one person may not necessarily work for the next person. Eat what you think works for you. Personally, I’ve thrived on a raw vegan diet. Lots of energy, regularity, no health issues, no colds, no flu, no weight issues, no dental problems, etc… After learning that our digestive system is as long as it is. I am convinced that dead animals (meat) rots in our digestive tracks. Other than the naturally produced cholesterol that our bodies make… the artery-damaging cholesterol is only found in animal products. It collects and turns into plague and that creates cardiovascular diseases.

  52. Chris says:

    Thank you Halanna Matthew!! I agree with you wholeheartedly.

    The funny thing about truth is that once you find it. . . you no longer need to continue to look for it.

    Yes in a warm climate its very easy to be raw vegan. But I live and work in the Midwest – – Chicago – – and guess what…… ITS VERY EASY TO BE RAW VEGAN IN THE WINTER HERE ALSO. When I get cold I put on an extra layer of clothes…long underwear and extra warm socks. I don’t need to have animals killed so I can eat them to supposedly stay warm.

    I think David speaks very intellectually. . however.. . I don’t need to listen to him again. I don’t think this is a mindbending talk.

    Read the work of Viktoras Kulvinskas. . .he addresses all your questions and comments. He was a true trailblazer.

    If this diet is isolating – – does that mean I should LOWER myself to do what others do?? Thank you, NO. I like my own company too much to listen to mindless conversation of SAD eaters. Not all are mindless. . . just many. I am blessed and eternally grateful every day for finding this lifestyle. . its not just a diet; its a lifestyle after all. Others can join me in it . . or not as they see fit. I would NEVER go back to fit in with them.

    I’m not lonely. . . I’m grateful. Its the best diet in the world once you get yourself really cleaned up inside. Hint: That could take quite a long time as you reach into the deeper recesses of your being. It affects every part of your life, mind, body and spirit.

    Another hint: This is not about being boring. .. or not getting invited to the right parties. Its about not caring about being invited to, or even going to the parties anymore!!! They really have nothing to offer.. Its called “Growth.”

  53. Sophie says:

    Thank you so much for posting this discussion. Brilliant, and honest. I am so grateful.

  54. Barry Smith says:

    WHOA! dude:wilber.I’ve been tooling around for a few months now.Wilber is as good as it gets,when it comes to thinking (unless you want to go metaphysical on us & believe that whatever comes into your mind is true…).Vast amounts of ancient to cutting-edge thinking;most is extremely entry-level,& free.Many major thinkers today believe he’s actually “hit all the bases”–you’d have to see it to believe it.Intgral IS the wave of the cognitive future;plug in now or later,but it aint goin’

  55. Bashi says:

    After spending last 10 years trying to find ”the one true diet ”and reading everything out there [ while experimenting on my body and getting totally confused ] i came to a simple conclusion just like Brian in earlier comment- eat God created food.That is the starting point for everyone. For “”EVERYTHING that God created is GOOD…”‘
    If we have persistent problems then God is prompting us to look a bit deeper and a bit deeper. For every problem we encounter on the way is how He offers us to encounter Him.

  56. anatol says:

    the source of the highest truths is not a smart intellect… even Einstein pointed out that his great insights came from intuition… not from a smart rational intellect…

    of course a well developed intellect can be used to express the insights for others … but even then humility, simplicity, beauty, and simple honesty( lack of personal ambition) must be the guidelines so that many can benefit…

    in other words, there have been many “brilliant” minds that have lead us down the wrong path…
    is my caution and the reason i am not impressed at all by David’s intellectualizing… and kind of creating a pseudo-science…

    i try to look at things simply… started 40 years ago with Vegan diet according to Arnold Ehret’s “Mucusless Diet Healing System” which worked reasonably good for me… but there were some detours… so learning experiences with Macro-biotics and Ayurveda… and some distractions eating at Indian, Chinese and Italian restaurants… finally 10 years ago back on track with Dr Fuhrman’s “Eat to Live” Nutritarian approach… which is basically the 100year old “Mucusless Diet Healing System” tweaked with some brilliant honest modern nutritional science…

    Health = (macro-nutrients) / calories [ this is Dr Fuhrman’s Einstein type of brilliant honest equation of simple truth easy to understand ]

    which when used skillfully tells us how to get the most of the powerful healing nutrients from food… beyond that the rest is our karma… and God’s Grace…

    Peace Pilgrim attained the highest goal… Self-Realization and perfect health… not with diet but with 100% commitment to selfless-service for 15 years… putting aside her own personal considerations… eventually she did become a vegetarian and fasted for 40 days…

    in my own case, my spiritual journey started 40 years ago… and vegan diet followed easily… so my POV is… spirituality and selfless-service first and diet is secondary… highest goal of life is to self-realize who we are in essence… not to find a perfect diet… not even to attain perfect physical health… of course these are nice to have…but depend primarily on karma first and only secondarily on diet…

    sooo, let’s get our priorities straight and not forget the wisdom of the KISS principle…

    and as far as spirituality is concerned… in order to experience our true nature as spirit[ highest truth ], the mind of thoughts-ego-intellect must me put aside… “Power of Now” Eckhart Tolle or Jesus, Buddha, and so many other beautiful spiritual teachers who are awake now… and helping others to awaken…

    in my POV, integral thinking or any kind of thinking, no matter how brilliant, on it’s own… does not lead to higher truths… especially the highest truth… that we are in essence pure spirit… which manifests as light… which in turn gives us an appearance of solid matter… which in reality is mostly space… which is pure awareness… which is pure love…

  57. Luke Sartor says:

    The proof of a diet is in the results. No mention in this interview or in Kevin’s commentary about it hints at the possibility that more than one raw food diet exists. Yet, more than one does exist. Most different raw food diets can be classed under two separate headings: the high-fat, gourmet raw fooder, and the low-fat vegan raw fooder. As challenging as this fact may be for a lot of people, the low-fat, raw vegan path has enabled people to not only heal themselves, but to go onwards and upwards, thriving with it. That is, the same diet that has enabled them to regain their health is the very one that is enabling them to maintain a high state of health. Dr. Douglas Graham explains point-blank in ‘The 80/10/10 Diet’ a raw diet approach that will work for everyone. Because, as is elucidated in the book, there is a diet for which all humans can thrive upon– whether male or female, sick or healthy, young or old, athlete or office-worker.
    As Dr. Graham teaches, health can be looked at in two fundamentally different ways: the medical model viewpoint (including the traditional medical approach and the alternative medical approach), or the health model viewpoint. He has written about this in an article on his website,
    In effect, the health model sees that those same exact influences, conditions, forces and substances that help us to GET well are identical to the ones required for us to STAY well. What changes are the proportions of certain influences to each other. E.g. a person with chronic fatigue would not benefit from hours of physical activity each day, but they would still get value out of gradually building up their fitness to the degree that their vitality allows. They would also benefit from sufficient sleep, pure water, nurturing foods, sunlight, emotional poise, etc. A professional athlete would benefit from these same influences, albeit the proportions would be slightly different – they would likely eat more and be more active, as a general guide. So, in this, it can be seen that the conditions required to achieve health are those same ones required to keep it. Neither Kevin nor David touch on this fact at all.
    Truths hold true in all circumstances. That’s why they are called ‘truths’. If something were not true, then it would be false. A pen is either blue or red, from our perception of the pen. If we see it as blue and we say it is red, what we say is not partly true. It’s simply false. That Kevin and David could suggest otherwise is comical.
    Truths do not contradict each other. If a diet including lots of fresh, raw, whole fruit is good for us, then saying that a diet including plenty of fresh, whole, raw green vegetables is good for us is not contradicting what has already been said. Rather, it complements it. Truths complement each other in a beautiful, intricate system so that the more one learns, the more fully is the entire jigsaw puzzle comprehended. If a truth seems to contradict another, as Kevin and David are alluding to as being possible, then I would propose that at least one of these supposed truths are actually not true at all. For instance, they say that the raw food diet will work for some people and not for all people. They say that some people, themselves included, actually do better on a diet including some cooked food. To this I will say that if a particular raw diet allows some people to succeed, then everybody who follows it will also succeed with it. It’s very disappointing to me that neither of these men mention the raw diet on which everybody can succeed – the 80/10/10 diet. So many people apply a high-fat, raw diet and then fail to thrive. These people either continue and do not thrive, or they go to something else. Those who have gone on to the low-fat, raw vegan diet have gone on to thrive beyond their wildest imagination. Those who go back to cooked food are still left in a state of utter confusion, not sure why they can’t seem to find anything that works. I trust that the people who have listened to this interview and read the comments by Kevin, that if they try the 80/10/10 diet for a couple of months and do it properly, then they will not want to ever go back to cooked food or to high-fat raw. The results of applying 80/10/10 are too darn good to want to consider going back. 🙂

    Warmest regards,

  58. Derek says:

    Benefits of cyanide would be better understood by reading about Apricot Kernels

  59. mindy says:

    Very facinating and informative interview. I am always fascinating by putting things in perspective and David’s use of integral theory was most helpful. I am a celiac. I didn’t discover this until I turned 50, though I had never eaten much wheat, I was still greatly damaged in invisible way. My bone health sufferred, facial blemishes i had fought in “typical” ways were mostly gluten stimulated. Though as a child I didn’t choose to eat pizza, or pasta or sandwiches, based on some instinct, i still got gluten in many other ways. When I tried healthful diets, there was often barley. I am amazed by what i instinctually avoided, though I must say I always loved a good brownie, so instincts couldn’t lead me in only good directions.

    I was always looking for a way to feel “safe” with food. I sufferred from bulimia in teens and 20’s and 30’s, but I felt it was because something bad happened to me from food once it hit my SI. I was starved by damaged by eating. I couldn’t find a positive direction.

    I tried macrobiotics, nourishing traditions, body type diets, raw food diet and on and on. Each had something valuable but none gave me the answer: how can I be safe and nourished with food.

    I am still on this journey. I am 100% gluten free (as sure as one who eats out carefully on occasion).

    David’s mentioning of food as community connection has so often plagued me. I yearn for it, and found the greatest safety with gluten free socializing in the raw food world.

    FOOD is the new religion. What is religion anyway? A place we go to feel safe, to care for self and others. We use the word religion in this discussion in a way that makes it stand out as a place for RIGID thinking or EXTREME LOYALTIES. I do think religion can be that way (not necessary) and so can food. HUMANS who feel at risk or threatended look for bastians of comradery.

    I don’t want to be EVEN MORE Longwinded. My gist will be THANKS so much. I am looking forward to part 2. This perspective has helped me to understand better how and why I travel through the food PHILOGOPHIES all these decades.

  60. Kim says:

    Thank you so much for this interview, I really needed the information right now. I just wanted you and David to know that I had a massive break through last night. I have returned to raw food over the last few weeks and it’s cold here in Canada, as he mentioned, and I’ve been very cold. So last night, I thought I might add some cooked foods in, but instead decided to try some energy work. I used RPT but EFT would have been fine too. The problem was that my body was angry about the food because it was “too light”. I worked on that and today, I am warm. It’s pretty incredible and I really hope it holds for me. I honestly think the answer is to combine a fantastic diet with energy psychology. Who doesn’t have some limiting beliefs weighing them down?

  61. I was blown away, Thank-You a thousand times over, amazing,amazing,amazing. I love everyones comments and I learn so much everytime I come to the Renegade Health Show. It adds so much depth to my work at the Health Food Store……Thank you to Everyone above me…Kevin and Annemarie you truly are Living Angels….Blessings to All~


  62. Katherine says:

    Interesting world view, interesting man, thank you for the interview…Much to think about… “Balance in all things” has long been my philosophy especially where diet is concerned, and integrating everything we learn everyday from everyone we meet, see, hear… fascinating stuff.

  63. Maria says:


    I agree with your comments. Raw vegan for me has been one of the best things I’ve ever done. No more colds, no flu, lots of energy, regularity, excellent weight, nice skin, no cravings for cooked (dead) food and I’ve been eating this way for 15 years. The winters here in North Carolina are really cold and when I’m dressed properly, I’m just as warm as the next person.

  64. Maryrose says:

    this is for lucymylove … I’d like to know if lucymylove ever figured out what caused the headaches from the raw smoothies, because I got them, too, and stopped because of it … email me at, would you, lucymylove? thanks!

  65. anatol says:

    lots of info why eating meat is bad for you and is not necessary at all for your health

    there was an experiment in the 1960’s correlating diets with time it takes for wounds to heal; fasting was quickest… then vegan… and meat took the longest for wounds to heal…

    the reason you feel warmer if you eat meat is that meat inflames the body tissues… when you are younger and stronger, your body can tolerate this more… but eventually this will lead to inflamed nerves and damage…

    there are other ways to keep warm… one is lots of ginger… another is exercise… mind over matter… warm clothes… and i’m sure many other ways… i read that even some Mongols, in harsh climates, are adopting veganism…

    Gandhi as a young man when leaving for England to study, promised his mom that he would not touch wine, women or meat… such discipline molded him for greatness…

    so Kevin and David… seems to me whether wittingly or unwittingly… you guys sold out to the cattle industry… good luck and God Bless !

    love and light !

  66. anatol says:

    for some therapies, very high dosage of B12 is required…

    and cyanocobalamin B12 is the wrong form to take since it can be harmful…

    the right & safe form of B12 to take is Methylcobalamin…

  67. anatol says:

    some reminders:

    “Most vegetarians are people who have understood that to contribute towards a more peaceful society we must first solve the problem of violence in our own hearts. So it’s not surprising that thousands of people from all walks of life have, in their search for truth, become vegetarian. Vegetarianism is an essential step towards a better society, and people who take the time to consider its advantages, will be in the company of such thinkers as Pythagoras, Socrates, Plato, Clement of Alexandria, Plutarch, King Asoka, Leonardo da Vinci, Montaigne, Akbar, John Milton, Sir Isaac Newton, Emanuel Swedenbourg, Voltaire, Benjamin Franklin, Jean Jacques Rousear, Lamartine, Percy Bysshe Shelley, Ralph Waldo Emerson, Henry David Thoreau, Leo Tolstoy, George Bernard Shaw, Rabindranath Tagore, Mahatma Gandhi, Albert Schweitzer, and Albert Einstein.”


    Meat feeds few at the expense of many. For the sake of producing meat, grain that could feed people feeds livestock instead. According to information compiled by the United States Department of Agriculture, over ninety percent of all the grain produced in America goes to feed livestock-cows, pigs, sheep, and chickens-that wind up on dinner tables. Yet the process of using grain to produce meat is incredibly wasteful. Figures from the U.S. Department of Agriculture show that for every sixteen pounds of grain fed to cattle, we get back only one pound of meat. ”


  68. julia says:

    HONESTLY! You are seriously confused—-and worse, have proven yourself to be a major cause of confusion for others, e.g. the people you pretend to help, many of whom have blindly wasted precious time, cash, and vitality by supporting your ego-centered and commercial agenda. You are an infiltrator and controlled opposition. Or an idiot.

  69. Éva Rawposa says:

    Really intelligent people who express themselves well, can justify anything.

    It doesn’t make it right, or true just because they are able to convince others that it is right, or true.

  70. anatol says:

    Eva #69 is right… she said it much more concisely than i tried to say… thanks

  71. anatol says:

    not sure this will be of help to some… if this is not your cup of tea please skip… but for some perhaps a little of spirituality will shed some light… and bring common sense balance… and practicality… it has always been of great help to me… enjoy…

    Direct Experience

    beautiful interview

  72. anatol says:

    in overall summary… before David, i heard several experts present various or similar POVs…

    i heard that fresh unprocessed plants have hundreds of cleansing, healing and maintenance micro-nutrients… which meat does not have…

    i heard that we may need high therapeutic dosages of …
    D3 from lanolin
    B12 as Methylcobalamin (the safe form of B12)
    DHA from algae

    i heard getting blood tests is good… but standards vary depending on your MD… i personally have chosen to depend on who has tweaked my vegan diet beautifully and surprisingly in the direction my intuition was telling me… the confirmation is reassuring… plus some powerful supplements…

    i have also added green juicing which is a great help… if interested see documentary entertaining movie trailer at…

    honestly… with my training in science, i heard no compelling reason at all to eat meat… as it congests, constipates, acidifies, inflames the body, and prolongs the healing of wounds…

    and now David presents a spaced out intellectual hypothesizing theory of integration… but when pressed for a practical reason to eat meat… the only thing he comes up with is it makes the body warmer…

    hello! there are many ways to keep the body warmer as some have posted… and definitely not even a necessity in warmer climates… like India etc…

    however i live in NJ USA and find that during winter the following help… ginger, black pepper, onions, garlic, scallions, along with juicing greens, other veggies and apples… also eating some cooked squash during winter helps… i am not 100% RAW, but tend in that direction more so during summer… and know that not all RAW VEGANS necessarily feel cold during winter…

    mind over matter is also very very important and has not been presented…

    and love & light is even more important… at that level we can turn wine into water… water being healthier for you… hahaha…

    thanks for listening, sharing and caring…
    god bless !

  73. Wendy says:

    I have been listening to The Renegade Health Show, The Aware Show, Dr. Mercola, The Longevity Conference, The Tapping Solution, and more and integrating the various HELPFUL bits of information is a chore. But, I too believe that people aren’t 100% right. I have to work out what’s right for me.

    I have enjoyed it all immensely. Thanks, Kevin.

  74. Jo says:

    Finally found time to listen to the first hour and don’t know if what I say here will be covered in the second hour so if it is then I apologise for wasting your time.

    I cannot get passed the point that David only came to these thoughts once he moved to Canada. I have really enjoyed listening to his points of view and found them very interesting and helpful in moving throught the spectrum of diet and really get it. However I will mention that a few British people lived in Spain on a Raw Vegan diet and thrived extremely well. On moving back to the UK they struggled and had to bring raw dairy products back into their lives. So very obviously my point is that can the Raw Vegan Diet only be managed in warmer climes. We have all seen many famous raw food advocates move to tropical areas. And The Raw Food German Family (excuse if have got their nationality wrong) insist that staying raw vegan is impossible in colder climates. Perhaps the move to a lighter diet with a view to a Breatharian life style is the way to go which picks up on a comments above about bringing animal based products in and firing up the body to keep warm and this could mask what David has in fact witnessed. It could just be simply that he has reached extreme health through the Raw Vegan Diet and his body has been fired up by animal products to keep him warm and feeling better in Canada and has not yet seen any ill health by eating this way in the long term.

    This is only an opinion which has come to my mind through listening and do appreciate totally the time and effort you are all giving to help us all create perfect health.

    Thank you


  75. Bill says:

    Interesting comments! I have learned a lot! Took notes and will research some of the comments references and the Ken Wilbur website.

    I am a pacifist. Just came to the realization although I acted that way in the past. Real test is will I die if I have to in order to not do violence to others myself.

    Will I die vegan? How many lifetimes? Can’t think of a better cause. Is it a good thing to do selfless service to “zombies” or “bio-robots”. Or is it better to spend some time trying to “wake” them up?

    Thank you all!

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