At 57, This Dude is Ripped : Great Health Debate Night 6 Snack Bites

Sunday Feb 13 | BY |
| Comments (34)

bananas frederic patenaude
“Fred, when these ripen up, come over and we’ll have a feast!” (Invite Harley too…)

This night was perhaps had two of the most polarized speakers…

Mark Sisson and Frederic Patenaude both had some convincing points about diet that I’m going to breakdown for you here now…

1. High quality protein and saturated fat aren’t the best arguments for animal sources of food.

Throughout this whole debate, I’ve heard good arguments, poor arguments and excellent arguments for specific dietary choices.

I’m sure you know what I’m talking about.

Mark Sisson, in the beginning of his talk, presented some OK arguments for eating animal foods, but they’re not the strongest.

First, Mark said high quality protein is a reason to eat animal products. I can’t exactly agree with this, particularly since we have access to plant-based fermented proteins like brown rice, pea and spirulina.

You may not need these in your diet, but if we want to argue high quality and digestible, then we do have something that can compare.

These fermented plant sources do have a good amino acid profile and may actually be digested easier than protein from meat.

I’m not exactly arguing that you can’t get protein from meat (or that you can’t get protein from whole plants.) You can. I’m arguing that high quality protein isn’t the best argument for eating animal products.

For good protein digestion, you also have to be able to produce enough HCL and enzymes to break down the proteins into amino acids. Most people do not have good HCL levels after the age of 40 or so and they may not produce enough enzymes to digest their food well, either.

Mark also said animal sources of food are a good place to get saturated fat.

Most vegans and raw foodies know you can get saturated fat that will keep your cholesterol at good levels from coconut oil.

So both these arguments, while OK, aren’t the best.

I think the best argument that he could have, would be to argue fat soluble vitamins and mention that many vegans and vegetarians are low in these essential nutrients – Vitamin A, D and K.

This doesn’t mean you can’t these vitamins from plant based foods, it’s just a better argument than the two Mark presented.

2. “I want to look fit, not be fit.”

Some of you criticized Mark for saying this, but he clearly was joking.

If you read his blog, he’s a funny guy and likes to use humor when he’s sharing – this is an example of that.

Mark exercises regularly and what ever he is doing works.

He mixes up high intensity training, weight training, and cardiovascular exercise.

He looks amazing at 57.

If you haven’t seen a picture of him, I’ll show you one right here:

mark sisson cut

Some people say looks speak louder than research. Looks like the 7th of his 8-pack is trying to tell you something.

Now, we don’t have any idea of what Mark’s blood work looks like, but dude is CUT.

3. Most vegans and vegetarians become plant-based after their development.

I have to do more research around this topic, but Mark does make a good point here.

Many of the people who are teaching a vegetarian, raw or vegan lifestyle (or all three) went through their developmental period of life not eating this way.

I think this is something worth exploring.

Can we eat vegan and / or raw our entire lives and not show any signs of compromised growth and development – or generational degradation?

It’s a very important question considering the work of Dr. Stanley Bass that I mentioned the other day.

Rodents fed different diets tended to give birth to offspring with different developmental issues.

We’re not immune to this. If it can happen to mice, it can happen to us.

Unfortunately, it would be nearly impossible to test scientifically to prove if vegans do or do not have developmental issues for two reasons.

(1) You have no real control to test against. You can never have two of the same people to see the difference when one is fed one way and the other fed differently. You can study others of the same age, but there are too many variables that account for growth and development. So unless we start cloning humans for scientific reasons, we’d never fully know how one particular individual would develop under two different dietary approaches.

(2) We can gather data from the population to compare, but they’re sick too. If we compare and contrast vegan children through their developmental phase, we run into two problems. The first is that most of the population eats a poor diet that could cause developmental problems that would skew the data. The second is that the general population eats a hormone filled diet that could cause excessive growth that would also skew the data.

Don’t hold your breath for these studies to happen.

I have heard some under the breath talk about vegan babies and issues from vegan and raw experts, but haven’t confirmed any of it. Could be just rumor, or could be bigger than that.

I have no idea.

(NOTE: I know some of you with vegan kids are going to argue this here. Let me suggest this, Dr. Williams has a protocol that he’s used to test for genetic weakness and it would be interesting to get a study together with vegan kids to affirm scientifically that it really works or maybe isn’t optimal.)

4. Plant agriculture abuses the land? Hmmm…

Mark had some good points in his talk…

This was not one of them.

Mark stated that plant based farming takes a toll on the land in an attempt to warn that we may not want to grow food because it will harm the earth.

Mark in a way is partially correct.

Plant based agriculture does take a toll on the land, but the reason why we’re using so much land in the form of monoculture is because we’re growing a huge amount of feed for the animals we – as a population – eventually eat.

If we were to turn those fields back to forest and wild habitat, we’d still have plenty of land to grow food.

I promise you that!

5. Apparently, you can keep blood sugar low with both high carb and low carb approaches.

One weird similarity of the two talks was the fact they both mentioned their diet was able to keep blood sugar levels low.

It’s very easy to understand that a low carb diet would keep blood sugar levels low. There’s not a lot of sugar in the diet to raise them.

On the other side, it’s understood that higher sugar diets with little fat, will do a similar thing… keep blood sugar levels relatively low and stable.

I would like to know if they both keep insulin levels normal as well.

6. Phenotype is how your genes express themselves.

The more I see different diets working for different people, the more I agree that our genes do actually express themselves differently depending on our culture and background.

I’m not sure if advancements in diet were due to genetic evolution or gene mutation, but I’m certainly sure that different groups of people can thrive or suffer on different foods.

The Pima Indians and Samoans are great examples of gene expression gone bad. Once sugar (processed) was introduced into their normally high carbohydrate diets, their health spiraled out of control causing rapid obesity and incredibly high incidence of diabetes.

Could we have evolved to eat more animal products because we ate them in the past?

And if so, can we evolve back to less animal products if we start eating less?

7. You may not agree with what Frederic says, but…

I have to say, I was extremely impressed with Frederic’s preparation for this program.

All the experts prepared, but Frederic took it to the next level.

Regardless of what diet you eat, you have to at least be impressed with his ability to explain his stance on the high carb / high fruit diet.

I added Frederic to join the program later than most of the other experts, but I’m 100% satisfied with bringing him on to share what he’s learned.

He was faced with LESS time to organize his data, but still pulled off a fantastic and professional argument.

Awesome, Frederic!

**
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Live Awesome!
Kev

Kevin Gianni

Kevin Gianni is a health author, activist and blogger. He started seriously researching personal and preventative natural health therapies in 2002 when he was struck with the reality that cancer ran deep in his family and if he didn’t change the way he was living — he might go down that same path. Since then, he’s written and edited 6 books on the subject of natural health, diet and fitness. During this time, he’s constantly been humbled by what experts claim they know and what actually is true. This has led him to experiment with many diets and protocols — including vegan, raw food, fasting, medical treatments and more — to find out what is myth and what really works in the real world.

Kevin has also traveled around the world searching for the best protocols, foods, medicines and clinics around and bringing them to the readers of his blog RenegadeHealth.com — which is one of the most widely read natural health blogs in the world with hundreds of thousands of visitors a month from over 150 countries around the world.

34 COMMENTS ON THIS POST

Comments are closed for this post.

  1. Barbara says:

    You said a lot about Mark’s talk, but, not much on Frederic. I
    missed it, so would like to know your comments on his diet.

  2. Sam says:

    I think #4 is incorrect: “the reason why we’re using so much land in the form of monoculture is because we’re growing a huge amount of feed for the animals we – as a population – eventually eat.” This has it backwards.

    I’ll quote from Lierre Keith:

    “Animals were taken off their native food [grass], out of their natural life patterns, because they weren’t needed on farms anymore. Their ability to turn cellulose into protein wasn’t an asset when corn could be grown so densely, so cheaply out of bare land and fossil fuel. And then the truly bizarre began to make economic sense: the mountain of corn that the US produced had nowhere else to go but into animals. Cheap corn, as George Pyle says, “has encouraged the creation of a factory farm system for beef, pigs and poultry that would … not exist otherwise.” Or as Michael Pollan puts it, “The urbanization of America’s animal population would never have taken place if not for the advent of cheap, federally subsidized corn.”

    So you have cause and effect reversed. We grow so much corn because we’ve developed fossil-fuel fertilizer and no longer need mixed-farms to properly fertilize crops. Whether the resultant grain is fed to humans or animals, we’re still talking fossil fuel on a stalk, and of course the myriad problems of agriculture. Agriculture with fossil fuel will never be sustainable obviously, but it’s not even efficient either: it takes 4 to 10 calories of fossil fuel to grow one calorie of food in a post-Green Revolution era.

    Also, we should understand that agriculture, whether industrial or not, destroys the planet. The fertile crescent, the place where humans first developed agriculture, is now desert. The pattern persists throughout the world.

    A careful reading of Michael Pollan’s Omnivore’s Dilemma should help anyone who wants to learn more about this.

  3. Clarita says:

    Concerning this remark made by you:

    “Unfortunately, it would be nearly impossible to test scientifically to prove if vegans do or do not have developmental issues for two reasons.”

    There is a great article by Dr.Bass (since you mentioned him) called: With Three Generations of Vegetarian Hygienists that summarizes findings of Dr. Gian-Cursio that led to major disagreement over diet in Natural Hygiene, and the split in ANHS that led to the removal of Dr. Gian-Cursio and others. As a result there has been a
    dominance of vegans in ANHS up until now. It is a great read!
    You can download it here:
    http://www.drbass.com/freedownload/index.html

  4. QC says:

    The low fat raw vegan diet does keep the insulin stable. My husband is a type 1 diabetes, he’s been on this diet for almost a year and is doing fantastic. The diet lowered his insulin intake to half of what he originally needed. His energy remains high and his endurance improved.

  5. LouisaL says:

    It seems very simple to me. Fatty blood will compromise blood-sugar metabolism. The fat inhibits insulin in some way either impeding their path or blocking the receptors. Instead of glucose being taken by the cells the sugar stays in the blood causing an over-supply of insulin and candida. So you have two options, stop eating carbs using fat metabolism for fuel which is taxing on the body and can cause chronic fatigue OR cut the fat! You’ll get an efficient steady supply of energy so you WANT to exercise!

  6. Veronika says:

    Thanks so much for inviting Frederic – it was great to hear his arguments!

  7. cid says:

    My question is about coconut oil, which I have been trying to get into my diet daily.
    also use it instead of lotion.

    Don’t remember which speaker was talking about it but did I hear wrong when they said coconut oil raises the bad cholesterol?

  8. Sue says:

    Kevin, plant agriculture does abuse the land – you just need to read about it. You probably haven’t come across it in your readings.

    The higher sugar diets with little fat keeping insulin down – need more clarification on that. Don’t know how that would work since I can’t see how fat would affect insulin one way or the other. Maybe its just the meal being low calorie. If its the diet that Fuhrman recommends his is also no grain I believe (?).

    Mark is definitely healthy and I’m sure blood tests would confirm that.

  9. Sam says:

    I’m going to echo Sue and ask for research that shows that high-carb and low-fat/protein controls insulin. Can anyone provide some evidence for this? A citation?

    If, for example, 80/10/10 raw food vegans reportedly have low blood sugar, there may be reasons for this other than the idea that high-carb/low-fat diets control insulin. For one, raw food vegans tend to primarily eat low-glycemic carbs, focusing on fruits, veggies, nuts, etc. which spike insulin significantly less than foods in the standard American diet. Second, raw foods are less energy/nutrient dense then cooked foods, so less insulin-spiking sugar may get to the blood stream among raw food vegans, or being in a state of semi-starvation (as low calorie diets were referred to as prior to the 1960s) may result in less insulin secretion. These are just speculations though.

    Can anyone offer some evidence for these assertions? Evidence for dietary carbohydrates being the primary regulator
    of insulin is exhaustively documented in Gary Taubes’ “Good Calories, Bad Calories,” for those interested.

  10. Beverley says:

    I have not heard anyone comment on Storm and Jinjee Talifero’s family.

    The children have been raised from infancy on a vegan diet, and seem good’n’healthy’n’fit.

    video.google.com videoplay?docid=5572550907493609078#

    Any comments?

  11. Gail says:

    I agree with all your points, Kevin (as usual).

    I even agree with you on Frederic. He always does present the material very well, and very logically, understandable and in a great format.

    I agree that if plant agriculture is not being done appropriately, it’s only because it’s being grown for the wrong reasons; and if the reasons were to be corrected, so then would the practice of growing it.

  12. Cozzy says:

    Sue, Kevin stated that he knows it damages the land, the point being raised here is that by eating meat, much more plant is needed to feed the animals for a much lower total yield. If we only had plant agriculture we would be using less land because a huge amount of food would not be lost in the process of feeding livestock.

  13. Kevin Gianni Kevin Gianni says:

    @Sue, I have read about it… plant agricuture under our current system does abuse the land. I’m proposing a new system.

    @Sam I see what you’re saying here, Sam. Look at it this way too… if we didn’t decide to feed the animals the corn, the corn would have gone away to some degree, OR we’d be eating even MORE corn chips. 🙂 Now, it’s part of the industry, so the monoculture IS feeding the animals. If there’s no more demand and surplus – without “rebranding” the raw material – the industry collapses. I, also by no means, am calling for any type of large agriculture as well. The localization of food production is necessary for any of this to take motion.

    Live Awesome!
    Kev

  14. Sue says:

    We need to feed the animals just on pasture. Maybe easier said than done but I’m not really qualified to comment further on this issue.

  15. Ela Harrison says:

    Kevin–thanks again for your wonderful work and skillful hosting. I’m preparing a blog post about the last two nights right now and will do a wrap-up/summary one too, tomorrow or Tue. Just a couple points:

    You say:
    “You have no real control to test against. You can never have two of the same people to see the difference when one is fed one way and the other fed differently.”

    What about identical twins? There have been some studies done (e.g. Al Sears on different forms of exercise) using identical twins.

    Plant-based agriculture abusing the land: I think there’s a lot of confusion around this discussion that could be usefully cleared up. Allowing reforestation to happen and growing a lot more plant-based food for human consumption may not be compatible goals.

    More in my blog soon…thanks again!
    Ela

  16. Janet Jagg says:

    So far the best speaker of the entire event was Sally Fallon. Most, if not all of vegans did not back up their claims for the benefits of a vegan diet with facts. Goldhammer was snotty toward non vegans and his suggestions on an optimal vegan diet were horrid. Two pounds each of fruits and vegetables a day is to much. Also, just enough grains to not get to weak and sickly is revolting. As Sally so rightly claims, food was meant to be enjoyed or savored if you will. It is a good gift from a loving Creator.

  17. oreganol says:

    Instead of these experts telling us why their diets are so great, why not get them all to gt their blood tested to see how healthy they really are. If they are so sure of themselves, then this would be the ultimate proof. Failure to agree to this would suggest they aren’t so sure. From the results we would really see what works.

    But this still leaves us with what’s best for the general population. The general population will never get to the point that these experts are at. Most people have day jobs, children, long commutes to work, etc. They could make efforts to cut out the junk, but sometimes it’s difficult to eat a healthy diet on the go, because the places to buy good food are incredibly limited.

    It would be good to have a program that gets people started. What most ‘experts’ do seems too big a step for most people. They need little steps to start with.

  18. Renee says:

    I started my path to good nutrition on a bodybuilding forum. Bodybuilders look good but what drew me to seeking other forms of nutrition is the fact bodybuilders eat so much protein in the form of meat and protein powders. Protein powders have been found to be contaminated with mercury and other toxins. Several years later, I have to report that many of the middle age bodybuilders have a variety of cancers and heart disease. I think bodybuilders are nutritionally deficient hence their high rates of cancer. Could be that in their past they took steroids or Human Growth Hormone that is known to exacerbate cancer. Something is just not right with the bodybuilders and I feel it is their emphasis on meat without a variety of veggies.

  19. Lynn says:

    I agree with the post by Oreganol – I would really like to see what the speakers’ blood tests look like and other factors. As far as appearances go, Donna Gates looks by far the best for her age in this group. Another great looking 60 year old is Lou Corona, a raw food vegan who recommends culturing (fermenting) your proteins (nuts/seeds) and also getting some fermented vegetables in.

    So . . . looks to me like eating a lot of raw cultured foods (animal or not), and lots of greens to remineralize, fruits, carbs and fats in moderation or according to the individual’s particular health issues at the time, and you’ve got it.

    In Sally Fallon’s book she mentions a man who was documented as living to 150 in England named Thomas Parr. The guy ate fermented goat milk products, home grown fruits and vegetables, sourdough bread and raw honey. This kind of diet seems to be a running theme among long lived peoples – Hunza’a etc. We will have to wait and see how the varied diets of the speakers serve them in the long run.

  20. Paul says:

    Sue & Sam, there’s a few vids on youtube of 80/10/10 raw vegan’s blood tests, but here’s one from our good friend durianrider:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4O_A6Mh1J48&feature=player_embedded

    I agree all these gurus should show their bloodwork. Not that it’s the end-all-be-all on which diet is best, but it definitely shows a certain air of confidence and transparency.

  21. Peter says:

    “And if so, can we evolve back to less animal products if we start eating less?”

    You do know how evolution works though?
    Waiting for a specific mutation, like the one that makes you grow a second stomach so you can truely become a herbivore will never occur in a species that is already as specialized as men.
    If you really want something like this to happen you have to go way back to the Bridge-species which fed on no animal protein at all.
    But if you read up on Human evolution you will notice that the introduction of animal protein into the diet allowed for bigger brain developement, thus it allowed us to seek new terretories which provided less Vitamin D from the sun, leading to even more meat consumption.
    In short: An omnivorous species is favored by nature.
    Now, what I do believe is, that there are people who truely have adapted to eating meat more than others, and those must be the inheritants of the neanderthal gene. Why?
    Because it is scientifically known that neanderthals have been living on a meat-diet with almost no significant intake of plant protein, they have evolved in an isolated Ice-age-climate, and therefore their gene-pool could evolve faster , and they have coexisted and interbred with Homo Sapiens Sapiens. So there you have it, two different digestive Systems crossing each other, one of them truely adjusted for meat eating, the other one more capable to deal with plant protein like Gluten.
    The Neanderthal beeing the original Nomad traveled around the globe hunting for his natural food source (Grassfed Meat) with the Sapiens Sapiens-part of his gene staying behind and cultivating the land, thus they made a perfect Symbiosis to conquer this planet. What really started to silently kill off the Neanderthal-gene was the development of agriculture, for grains really aren’t a carnivor-stomachs best friend, causing celiac disease.
    And now lets think a little about all this.
    Which culture was one of the last to adapt to agriculture? Ireland anyone? There is scientific evidence that the ginger-gene was prominent in Neanderthals. The Irish diet is known for what? Can anyone else count two and two together?
    In conclusion: There is lots of people who are unable to thrive due to our unified diets.

  22. Brett says:

    http://www.newstarthealthcare.com/article.php?id=94

    One experiment contrasting high fat versus high carbohydrate diets. This was done by Dr. J Shirley Sweeny back in in 1927! and has been repeated more recently by Anderson and others.

    Dietary fat acts to biochemically arrest blood insulin. No insulin = no glucose entry into cells = accumulated high blood sugar levels. This forces the pancreas to continue to pump out even more insulin while blood sugar remains high in an effort to clear it.

    Even worse are trans fats but these work by a different mechanism. Normally flexible cell walls incorporate fats into their structure as part of their natural composition. Unfortunatley they will happily incorporate circulating synthetic trans fats if available. These cause the stucture of cell walls to become rigid and inflexible, physically impeding glucose molecule transport across the porous cell membrane and even worse, they have a 20 year decomposition half life.

    As one researcher put it, “Cell walls don’t work so well when they are made by Dupont”.

    I have successfully used this strategy in the long term to reverse my own diabetes. When I am well beahved my HBA1C (a medium term marker of blood glucose control) is sometimes better than my own physician who is not diabetic.

    On a personal note, the worst fat I have personally found to subjectively effect peripheral vascular circulation is hands down coconut oil. Nothing even comes close. After long agonising over the debate on this I find myself in agreement with Drs. McDougall and Fuhramn and can see why it is chosen to experimenatlly induce atherosclerotic plaques in lab animals.

    Sugars and fats should never be combined in the same meal. It is like setting up the road block and backing up the sugar truck. It all gets dumped in the bloodstream because there is nowhere else for it to go.

  23. Brett says:

    Thanks Kevin for hosting this interesting programme and for introducing us to Dr. J E Willaims. I will be sure to follow up his research as he provides a unique perspective I have been searching for for some time and may hold some important keys in solving the health puzzle.

    I also resonate with you in your respect for Dr Allan Goldhammer and envy your stay at his amazing clinic. If he has shaken some listeners it is only because of his passion and frustration. How can people pour refined carbohydrates and oils down their throats in the expectation that it will be health promoting? Even common sense will tell you this is folly and only serves to benefit the pockets of the manufacturer. No wonder Dr. Goldhammer gets frustrated with such nonsense.

    If there is one safe bet I have learned in my journey which has so far doubled my early tenuous lifespan. It is that once you divorce fractions from their Wholefood context you open Pandora’s box and nowhere is this more true than with refined oils.

    If you want oils or nectars, eat the Wholefood it came from, not some processed extraction. I would trust natures kitchen over man made commercial supermarket shelf fractions any day.

  24. Ben says:

    I disagree with your point on #4. Mark Sisson promotes eating grass fed meats. Feeding grain to animals is not something he supports. Growing monocrops destroys the topsoil along with entire ecosystems and is not sustainable. Especially when you account for synthetic fertilizer, which relies on oil and causes massive pollution.

  25. Sue says:

    Paul, thanks but Durianrider not someone I would go to for information. He is part of that Bananas Only Group.

    Brett, will read that 1927 study but still doesn’t make sense to me. There have been many recent studies showing the benefits of low carb for diabetes. Re coconut oil being bad – not sure if I believe that. Are you sure the study used virgin coconut oil and not some fake type?

  26. Thomas says:

    The reason they use “cheap corn” to feed the animals is because it is artificially cheap. Without the government subsidies to pay the farmers, they couldn’t afford to grow it. Our tax dollars are wasted on a corrupt system.

    If you watch the PBS video “King Corn” you will see that only the chemical companies selling the GMO corn seed, nitrogen fertilizer, herbicides and pesticides are really making money. The large corporation that buys the corn pays very low for it, and the farmer gets his income from the government depending upon how many acres he plants. But with the Secretary of Agriculture that Obama appointed being a former CEO of Monsanto (the supplier of the patented GMO seeds) it would be difficult to change this terrible system.

    The corn kills the cows that eat it — it ferments and blows a hole through their stomachs. They show that in the documentary. It is not natural for cows to eat corn, they were made to graze green vegetation.

    The corn is also the source of high fructose corn syrup — a major cause of obesity and diabetes. Even the farmers lament the fact that the corn isn’t fit for human consumption — they can’t even eat it.

  27. Shu Han says:

    First of all, THANKS KEVIN for bringing together this wonderful event! I’ve gained so much information but not sure I’ve learnt anything just because there’s so much conflicting (still wonderful!) information.

    WRT #5, is it always a low fat/high carb vs high fat/low carb? It seems most do agree that if you do a high carb diet, it’s best to keep the fat low and vice versa i.e. don’t do both or you’re destined for poor health/fitness. Except Sally Fallon, who supports the use of fats to aid the assimilation of carbs into the body.

    If I decide to stick to a high fat diet, does that mean I need to give up or at least reduce my carbs and vice versa??

  28. Sue says:

    “If I decide to stick to a high fat diet, does that mean I need to give up or at least reduce my carbs and vice versa??”

    Definitely. A combination of high-fat and high-carb in a meal is not good particularly if trying to lose weight.
    Or you have fat meals and carb meals separately.

  29. Chris says:

    And what did Frederic say? Your breakdown Kevin?

  30. Jamillah says:

    I suffered from chronic candida for two years until I found out about the low fat-high fruit lifestyle. Before then, I went through periods of eliminating all fruit and felt miserable, sluggish and as if I was aging at 33! I couldn’t figure out how I could feel so terrible eating a saltless, high raw diet. Now I know that all those avocados, coconut meat and nuts were doing me way bad. I instanlty felt better by switching to low fat-high fruit. I am not alone in this experience. And all along my intuition knew there was something wrong with not eating fruit; it felt like punishment. The proof is in the pudding–get out of your heads people. That Western, linear, left-brain way of thinking is so old. And I do value and respect my ancestors but I am not them and don’t live in their world. Way to go Frederic!

  31. Sorry Kev, I think you’re awesome, AND with that said, brown rice protein, pea protein and spirulina are not real foods. The first 2 especially are fractionated foods (are not whole foods) and don’t exist in nature. This is the way vegans and vegetarians get enough protein via supplementation with fake foods. This is a compensation based on 21st century technology and is not based on human anthropology.

    In addition, not only is protein present in all animals foods, but so is fat. Where is the fat in brown rice protein, or pea protein? There is none. Huge mistake.

    The most important components of animal foods (grass fed and / or wild) are the fats – the cholesterol, saturated and omega-3 fats. These feed the brain, hormones, and all 70 trillion cell membrane structures. You really can’t get any of these in enough quantity from a plant only diet. And as you know plant omega-3’s don’t convert well while animal sources do extremely well…. That alone should tell you something. We need the cholesterol and healthy fats that only clean animal foods can give us.

    So a plant based diet – yes! But one that also includes some animal protein.

    I would have liked to have heard Frederic’s part. If Frederic is into fruit like Doug Graham’s 80/10/10, I completely disagree with that. Doug Graham looks like a wrinkled prune likely from excessive amounts of fructose for so many years.

    I wish I was part of this debate. It is great that you are doing it!!

  32. Trina says:

    No talk about Frederic. Please give your take on his eating philosophy!! Thanks,Trina

  33. Selene says:

    Come on folks! Judging someone’s diet and health by the way they LOOK is insane, though certainly understandable given our society’s emphasis on appearance.

    Lou Corona and Mark may be genetically disposed to looking more youthful than others are at their ages. Who knows what they’d look like if eating a different diet but still working out?

    There are plenty of people who are healthy but are wrinkled as they get into their 50s and 60s. That eating raw vegan or vegan can make one age slower or stop aging is one of the most deceptive and fallacious arguments, and so many people buy it. Mimi Kirk is another example. People keep saying she doesn’t look 70. Well, I’ve seen her and she definitely doesn’t look 30 or 40 or even 50. She does have wrinkles but she also has long flowing blonde hair and a slim body. Oops, I’ve gotten sidetracked.

    Being healthy is most important. Duh. If you’ve followed the Blue Zones or other long-term studies of longevity and health, you’ll find that there are many people living healthy lives into their 90s around the world, but they definitely *look* old. Aging is NOT a disease. It is inevitable. Get used to it, embrace it, and you’ll be much happier.

    And, yes, Mark looks amazing.

  34. India’s Mr. Universe Premchand Degra won the title in the short-height 80 kg category back in the year 1988. Guess what..he was vegan! Research some pics on the dude. Talk about being ripped! As the founder of the best weight loss clinic in Mumbai, I often advise patients on body sculpting. Trust me, unlike what Mark says, human beings were not meant to eat and digest animals. It was a necessity at certain times of our evolution, but as sentient beings with a higher state of consciousness we certainly can stick to a vegan diet if we choose to. Choice – that’s the word that we can exercise and save our digestive systems and ultimately our health!

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