Have You Seen a Squirrel with Crooked Teeth? : Great Health Debate Night 4 Snack Bites

Thursday Feb 10 | BY |
| Comments (84)

jonny 5 wild foods
Don’t be fooled, we’re just as domesticated as this guy…

We’re halfway thought the debate and there’s been a ton of great lectures and discussion – not only from the experts, but also by you.

I want to thank you for your contribution, since you help make this program interesting and valuable with your commentary!

Today, in my Great Health Debate Snack Bites, I share my takeaways from last night’s call with David Wolfe and Daniel Vitalis (Night 4) – which many of you have said was the best.

Let’s get going…

1. “Raw Foodists are extreme in nature.”

I loved to hear this from David, because it’s so incredibly true.

The raw food lifestyle does attract extreme people – so does the Paleo diet, and the Weston A. Price philosophy and the vegan philosophy.

Now, I’m not saying this is a good or bad thing, it’s just the way it is.

Extreme can mean a whole bunch of things…

Intelligent, ignorant, curious, close-minded, motivated, individual, stubborn, seeker, follower and so many more.

Many times what is extreme may actually give us insight into how things really are, or should be.

Other times extremes show us where we shouldn’t go.

With raw food, I don’t think the concept is so extreme in nature. It’s just extreme to those who aren’t doing it.

Annmarie and I don’t eat 100% raw anymore, but we do eat a high raw diet and believe these foods are a considerable factor in determining the outcome of our health in the long run.

Our motivation is health for as long as possible.

So if you’re extreme celebrate it!

Just be sure you’re doing it for health, not for the sake of being extreme.

2. Have you seen a squirrel with crooked teeth?

This was possibly the best quote of the evening from Daniel Vitalis.

First, to be realistic, I don’t know if I’ve ever been so close to a squirrel to examine its teeth – but I get what Daniel is saying…

His point is animals that eat their natural diet don’t show any signs of genetic weakness.

Humans, on the other hand, are showing signs of genetic weakness over generations at an alarming rate.

Crooked teeth, allergies, inability to reproduce, autism, behavioral problems, poor vision and many more strange issues could be attributed to changes in our genetic code due to eating poorly, toxicity in the environment and advanced birthing medical care.

Dr. Stanley Bass, a natural hygiene MD, did some generational studies on rodents and diet a few decades ago.

His hypothesis was that diet would and could change the genetic code over generations and the best way to demonstrate this was with rodents because he would be able to observe their transformation over 3-4 generations in a short period of time – doing this type of controlled study with humans would be nearly impossible due to our lifespan.

What Dr. Bass found was that certain diets did show changes in the appearance and behavior of the rodents – including inability to reproduce and failure to thrive – in sometimes just one generation, let alone 2 or 3.

It’s foolish to think that this isn’t happening to us too.

3. Marine phytoplankton – does it work?

David talked about the benefits of marine phytoplankton.

I’ve used this product because of its high mineral content and it was one of the tools that successfully brought back my mineral levels.

So I think it may be a valuable tool. (There were other tools I used too, so I can’t say definitively.)

As for the fatty acids, it does in fact contain phospholipids and other beneficial fats and is relatively well researched compared to other supplements – since there are some companies with an interest to sell it. (LOL!)

My only question is whether these oils are sufficient to replace other oils and nutrients that may be in animal fats. Experts speak both ways on this subject.

Some argue that eating the plankton skips “the middleman,” or skips eating the fish or the krill.

I don’t like this logic.

People also justify eating wheatgrass for protein because the cow gets big eating grass, therefore we should get big and strong too.

It’s not clear logic.

The cow is a different organism than us – we don’t have the same ability to digest as it does and we can’t assume that if a cow eats grass we’ll grow big and strong.

I wonder the same thing about marine phytoplankton.

By skipping the middleman, do we miss out on any conversion that the animal or organism has made to make the oil more bio-available to us?

There, unfortunately, are studies on both sides (many poorly designed) that completely confuse the issue.

I rotate between sacha inchi oil, marine phytoplankton and krill oil to hedge the research that I see. I don’t know if that’s the best approach, but it seems to be working because my fatty acids test out OK.

The best way to go about this is to take what you feel will work and test your fatty acid levels from time to time to see if you’re getting what you’re needing.

You may also need to be sure you’re getting fat soluble vitamins – regardless of your diet – as well.

4. There’s no research against eating chocolate because everyone loves chocolate.

Some of you wanted me to ask David about why chocolate didn’t work for me.

I appreciate you wanting this to happen, but the purpose of the call was to discuss animal foods and plant foods, not chocolate and its benefits or negatives.

David did mention that there aren’t any negative studies done on chocolate and I have to agree on this – but probably for a different reason.

David says there are no studies so that explains that chocolate must be good.

My stance is that there are no studies because everyone wants chocolate and the people putting the studies out have an interest in selling it.

Chocolate in small doses and in extreme moderation is OK.

It does contain caffeine and / or theobromine and can, with long term use burn out your adrenals.

5. Animal food toxicity.

Animal foods, due to bio-accumulation, are more toxic.

I’ve seen studies that have said animal foods can have up to 100 times more toxicity than plant foods.

Jonny Bowden dodged this question a little bit in our interview, but David and Dr. Cousens discuss it clearly.

Even naturally feed animals accumulate toxins in their bodies, so when someone chooses to eat them, they do increase their toxic exposure.

Now some will argue – how much of that toxic exposure translates into disease or ill health?

We know some of the challenges that are faced, but not all of them, so I think in this instance caution is necessary.

For instance, the Connecticut Department of Public Health states for pregnant woman to “eat no more than one meal per month of freshwater fish” from Connecticut lakes and streams.

They also warn, “certain fish such as swordfish or shark should not be eaten at all.”

To see a governmental agency warn about something like this means it’s a very big deal and the toxic exposure is great.

So if you choose to eat fish, know you could be getting a few servings of mercury and PCBs with your sashimi.

And if you do eat fish, and this makes you mad – good! We need people to do something about changing our environmental practices. We need you to step up to the plate.

Keep in mind also, this is a very NEW challenge.

People eating meat or fish in the year 1756, didn’t have to worry about this at all.

This may in fact, convolute the diet argument that much more – particularly for those that argue on the evidence we have about diet from past cultures.

We never had toxicity like this before.

6. The power of wild food.

Just as I’m explaining the dangers of some wild animal food, I do want to talk about the benefits of wild plant foods.

Here’s a valuable quote from Daniel Vitalis about this:

“When people are arguing about different diets, they’re arguing about different arrangements of domesticated foods.”

What this means is that the diets most experts are talking about contain little or no wild foods. We argue about carrots and bananas, but completely ignore nettles or horsetail.

Wild foods are much hardier and more nutritious in general than their domesticated counterparts.

The difference is comparable to the difference between a wild cat and a house cat.

Our house cat, Jonny 5, snuggles up on our lap and never scratches. A wild cat is leaner, tougher and isn’t as friendly.

Domesticated foods may be harmless, but also might not contain the level of nutritional punch we need.

Wild foods certainly do contain that punch, but they can also contain more plant alkaloids which limit our ability to intake a large amount of them over a short period of time.

This, in theory, would allow the plant to survive mass harvesting as well as encourage those eating it to give it a rest for a while and eat something else. This is almost nature’s way of gently that we have to eat a variety of foods.

Again, the give and take or yin and yang of the issue is evident, but I think it’s important to get wild foods or wild herbs into your diet to help support your health as a long term strategy.

7. I can’t believe the comments!

First off, I want to thank everyone for posting comments here on the blog and on the event blog as the program is playing.

Your contribution is much appreciated.

As I’ve been reading them, the thing that stands out the most is how human experience can be so different.

For example, in just 2 or 3 comments, you can read about how someone loved Daniel’s talk, how he made no sense, and how he’s justifying his diet choices with research.

These comments are from three different people, listening to the same exact interview, at the same time.

It’s amazing to see how strikingly different their experience was.

I don’t have anything more to say about this, I really just wanted to bring it up to show how different opinion can be and how important it is for us to understand that we don’t always know where someone is coming from unless we ask and find out.

Next time you assume what someone thinks, see if you’re right by asking them to share their thoughts.

You might be surprised!

**
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Right now, we have specials on B12 patches, Vitamin D, chlorella and spirulina.

We also have specials on Yogurt makers, culture starters and coconut kefir which Donna Gates discussed as well as our healthy smoothie recipe book “Smoothie for Optimal Health” which has contributions by David Wolfe and Daniel Vitalis.

Here’s where you can go to get these products at a discount now:

http://store.renegadehealth.com/cart.php?m=featured

These specials end on Monday, the day after the event does!

Live Awesome!
Kev

Kevin Gianni

Kevin Gianni is a health author, activist and blogger. He started seriously researching personal and preventative natural health therapies in 2002 when he was struck with the reality that cancer ran deep in his family and if he didn’t change the way he was living — he might go down that same path. Since then, he’s written and edited 6 books on the subject of natural health, diet and fitness. During this time, he’s constantly been humbled by what experts claim they know and what actually is true. This has led him to experiment with many diets and protocols — including vegan, raw food, fasting, medical treatments and more — to find out what is myth and what really works in the real world.

Kevin has also traveled around the world searching for the best protocols, foods, medicines and clinics around and bringing them to the readers of his blog RenegadeHealth.com — which is one of the most widely read natural health blogs in the world with hundreds of thousands of visitors a month from over 150 countries around the world.

84 COMMENTS ON THIS POST

Comments are closed for this post.

  1. Suzanne says:

    I never got the link to hear David and Daniel, but I am ok w/just reading your comments. Sitting listening for 2 hrs. is hard for me. I know I can pause, but I probably wouldn’t go back to it. I did get the other links though.

  2. Marina says:

    Very very interesting debates. I think “squirrel with the crooked teeth” caught everybody’s attention. It is a simple argument and yet, not too many people thought of that, I bet. May be only those who read “Nutritional Degeneration”….
    Both David Wolfe and Daniel Vitalis are wonderful speakers and probably can convince anybody in anything, do not mean it in a bad way, on the contrary….
    So far, all the debates are incouraging me to find what works for me.
    Thanks, kevin, for organizing the event.

    Were there “snack bytes” for day 3, I missed them somehow.
    Marina

  3. Mack says:

    Kevin – thanks for being so incredibly honest !
    The biggest problem I see is people jumping on a bandwagon and declaring that to be the only way !
    Like you, I have a LOT to think about – but confusing ? No ! Just a lot of pieces to put together and think about – tons of ideas – one of the best is that it is an individualized thing – we all need to feel our way through this, being intuitive and seeing for ourselves what works best for us.
    What I should have my butt kicked for is not starting a ” Health Diary ” – what am I eating, what supplements I am using, how do I feel, how is my energy level …. etc. – definitely going to do that now !
    Other than the data from the various experts, the best thing I am getting is just the motivation and drive to do things right this time.
    Its a wonderful thing you have put together here Kevin ! Thanks so much !

  4. Bette says:

    This conversation/debate blew me away! While David was his usual self, recco all sorts of things most of us dont have access to and saying all the usual things…..Daniels side was incredible.

    Now dont get me wrong, I am not going to go eat meat. However, I was blown away by the cult/religion comment as well as how we are all factory framed by how we spend our money.

    Really, I got, how we have ALL been misled by what we think good health is. For me, I STILL and always knew, listening to my own body is key….and I just know this is what it will all dehydrate down to when this debate is all over…..because what else can one do?
    Thank you so much for providing this!..Bette

  5. Ana says:

    I loved Daniel Vitalis’s interview. Thanks guys, xx

  6. helene says:

    Suzanne and anybody who can’t find the videos, each night the videos are at:
    http://www.renegadehealth.com/ghd/blog/
    (you can also type http://www.thegreathealthdebate.com/blog and it’ll take you to the same place)

    and kevin, I thought it was Daniel who called raw foodists “extremists”. And then went on about how they are like religious extremists. Personally I didn’t like this comment because some meat eaters who told me to eat meat seemed like extremists too.

    and by the way, daniel said that he doesn’t know of any very long living vegans or something like that. I do not think this is true since I’ve come across individuals over 100 who said they’re diet was plant based.

    And personally my favorite debate was the first one (with dr. cousens) since it was more in the true debate style.

    also daniel seemed to be recommending eating wild animals. personally I find animal killing cruel but aside from that, how can the population exist if they just eat pure (uncontaminated) wild animals. I do not think there would be enough for everyone. Also with most Americans being overly acidic as it is, is it really wise to promote more meat eating? I think not.

  7. A huge point brought up by Daniel was how the vegan diet is a new experiement – and how unethical it is to tell people that it is the best diet for their health without the long term research. The idea that they should say “Im trying a dietary experiment and I invite you to try it yourself” is MUCH more realistic and honest.

    Daniel hit so many home runs in this talk – he really does make many of the others seem like just kids playing with toys.

    I just want people to realize that truly it IS a new dietary experiment. I, like Daniel, thought that we were truly raw vegans and that we fell from grace, but there is no proof whatsoever of this, and I highly doubt anything is being hidden from the public about a secret vegan society that lived 10,000 years ago or more. All the human degeneration around us can be hidden with laser eye surgery and braces, but its no doubt that we are falling apart really quickly because of this diversion from our true diet. As someone who had braces and wears glasses for driving, I can totally relate – and looking at my sadly inadequate diet of childhood I have no doubt that I was handicapped because of it.

    As for the toxins…I believe its true for fish, thats why I choose low-level food chain fish like sardines and smelt, but what about land mammals? What toxins are found in the meat or milk? Are there tests showing toxic buildup in the tissues? Dr Cousens statement about radioactive fallout showing up in meat and milk is completely without merit as far as I can find – are people making up things to back their religious beliefs?

    THANK YOU KEVIN! I think last night got MANY people rethinking why they have chosen to give up animal products.

  8. Veronika says:

    The one question I was reeeeeeally hoping you would ask David Wolfe is: “What do you think is happening when people say they react poorly to chocolate?” i.e. Kevin, your experience, and many other people who get hyper reactions and burn out their adrenals. Does he consider this a food allergy? Does he think we’re all misinformed? Or that we’re lying?

    He said people who talk smack about chocolate never site any research – that’s because people who talk smack usually had their own negative experiences so they don’t need research to tell them they feel crappy. They’re the ones who can’t eat more than small amounts without feeling like they’re having a coffee episode.

    I’d really like to hear from David on this one!

  9. Rebecca Bailin says:

    Kevin,
    Thanks for the analysis/notes. It’s nice to have notes if we might not be able to take the time to listen to the whole interview.

    You’ve asked a little about oils and fatty acids. I hear SO MUCH contradictory info about which oils are good for you, good for cooking, etc.

    If your guests could comment on which oils to use cold or for cooking that would be great.

  10. David Dame says:

    First I wanted to say that I’m enjoying your Great Health Debate programs. I’m listening to the replays because evenings just don’t work for my schedule.

    BUT that said… it is a real challenge to get the links to the programs, I’m using a Mac (OSX-Snow Leopard) with Safari as my browser and your links do not even show up as links on the page. I need to open the links on a PC and then send that link to myself. The sound on my Mac is so much better than my laptop PC, but he whole process is a real pain in the a..!

    Why are you having sure a problem getting links that work using a Mac? I know you can do it because your links to the “Native’s Live 90 Years” videos work without any problems.

    Oh well it is something us Mac users experience living in a PC world, we always need to find a workaround, that is why I also own a PC Laptop.

  11. Max says:

    I agree that wild food is much hardier than domestic food. In regards to healthy lifestyles atteacting extreme people I think there is some truth to that. However, we need to realize that a natural lifestyle is anything but extreme. Natural means balanced, normal and appropriate for our needs. I think eating ding dongs and twinkies is extreme and unnatural. Some lifestyles like Weston Price may be hyjacked by extremists but in reality they are just looking at traditional lifestyles which are natural and anything but extreme.
    I think the topic of looking at wild animals and native people not having the same chronic diseases domestic people and animals have is a good one.

  12. Paula F. says:

    But for all us ethical vegans, the question always remains” “what about the animal(s)”. And how will we ever evolve past killing and to a more noble species? Is “humane slaughter” the best we can ever do?

    I am a committed vegan and can’t imagine myself ever putting animal flesh or fluid to my lips again, but Vitalis does frame the dilemma very compellingly.

    So where are we at … what do those of do who killing animals is anathema, or what about omnivores who want to eat healthy “meat” (ugh know that I loathe having to refer to an animal as meat) but have no access to or can’t afford it? Did anyone see the Oprah 7 day vegan challenge recently? I was snarling when Michael Pollan said “well I can afford it”, and Oprah chimed in coyly “I can afford it too”.

    I used to sneer at the mere mention of the WAP, but this exposition has tempered my militancy, and made me listen more closely and patiently. Perhaps, unfortunate for the animals as it may be, healthy animal flesh is healthy and necessary for some humans.

    This saddens me. I wish it were not so.

  13. Anne says:

    Hey Kev,

    I truly appreciate the talks every night and contrary to other webinar, the debates finds me listening intently and taking notes.

    I’ve tried to tweak my diet many times to do what is best for me and certainly derailed a bit when I tried the 80-10-10 last year which might work for some (I doubt it!) but was a total disaster and I’m finding now that I have fructose malabsorption so it’s great to have different view points as the end goal is certainly not to be vegan or raw foodist or whatever but mostly to have vibrant health and boundless energy AND also to have a balanced, serene and positive outlook on life

    Thanks again

  14. Donna says:

    I would have loved to hear the last two nights debates but unfortunately never received the links. The first two were awesome! Thanks for organizing and providing a great event.

  15. James Israel says:

    a time and place for everything…….

  16. PE says:

    Fascinating, as were the many comments. Despite the claim of one comment, the Brokpa are not vegan, nor are they ‘original Aryans.’ Their tea includes butter, and they are highland animal raisers, eating mutton at festivals (and not only in winter, as one person suggested). Their language is Dardic.
    Recent work with Neanderthal remains makes it clear that they ate grain, no doubt cooked, long before grains were grown. They were not, as was supposed, meat specialists. And, though orthodox opinion calls them extinct, some of us are sure we are all descended from intermarriages between Neanderthals and those more closely resembling us.
    Vitalis brought up the shrunken brains of modern human, but didn’t mention that BOTH Cro Magnon types and neanderthals had the larger brains.
    Good, objective ework on paleolithic diet is done by AP Simopoulos.
    So much more, but no time.

  17. zia says:

    I think I wrote my comments today on the wrong blog page? Is each talk on a different blog spot? oops.

  18. Chris says:

    Sorry, I don’t think the comment by D. Vitalis is so brilliant. . . Have you seen a squirrel with crooked teeth?

    We don’t have crooked teeth either when we eat properly.

    Animals in the wild have a tough life.. Squirrels have to deal with getting run over in traffic, being poisoned, trapped, shot at, and on and on. Their life does not last terribly long unless they’re living in some tremendously marvelous area. We’re put here to help and care for them.. they come to be with US.. Not for us to eat them.

    and David Wolfe. . . well he’s definitely full of himself. It pads his pocketbook after all.

  19. Sharon says:

    Mac users: use Mozilla Firefox. Works just fine.

    It was good to hear the Daniel plans to use his entire cow, not just the tastier parts. Both guys were great. I don’t agree with everything (my ancestors are not stemming from a scientific hoax or fairy tale!).

    They both look really healthy and vibrant and have a long history of experience with vegan foods. I’m guessing anyone who eats fermented foods and consumes Chaga regularly will be healthy no matter what they do the rest of the time.

    Like Anthony I would like to see proof of the grass being radioactive. Never thought of that when I was first listening but it makes sense that we should see the evidence of that. Can you get us the goods Kevin?

  20. Tiff says:

    I’m a vegan who loves David Wolfe…AND Daniel Vitalis!! YEAH!!

  21. Yair says:

    I agree with the previous comments, both speakers were awesome indeed!
    I have one comment about the DHA from phytoplankton – there are various supplements on the market that provide DHA from Algae. I think in this case the DHA is already processed and ready to be digested, I don’t think it would be any less available for absorption than any fish oil/krill oil (minus the toxins) am I wrong?

    Thanks for organizing this event!

  22. Thomas says:

    David #10: I use a Mac with OSX and have no problem with Kevin’s videos. I use Firefox for a browser, however.

    Kevin, how right you are about all the comments on both this blog and on the debate blog. You can really tell if a person is a vegan, vegetarian or omnivore by their comments. Some people feel so threatened by another point of view that they write long dialogs and keep repeating them on the same blog, as if defending themselves in a “chat-room courthouse”. 🙂

  23. Sharon says:

    After the reading the comment about David Wolfe padding his pocketbook I feel kinda obligated to promote his organization that he donates most of his money too: http://www.ftpf.org. This is his pet project to plant fruit trees around the world, a very noble cause in my opinion.

    David’s work (and Daniel’s too) will help in the years to come to help people know what works and what doesn’t. Are superfoods the right thing? Will David live to 130 or 150 or longer? He’s a farmer at heart and his dough goes back into his farms and fruit tree planting.

    I knew a lot of the stuff David teaches before I ever heard of him. He knows what he’s talking about and all he’s done really is gather the info together from many sources and make it accessible.

    Daniel has lots of free videos on how to gather food. Sure he sells some stuff but if these guys had a job instead of a career none of us would be here on this page right now! We’d never know the half of it.

    THERE’S NOTHING WRONG WITH MAKING MONEY!!! POVERTY SUCKS!!!

  24. Rick says:

    these were certainly amazing talks. i literally took notes while listening because david and daniel gave me so many things to read into. bravo, this was easily my favorite night.

  25. Heather says:

    Just a note about Mac issues. So far I’ve had no trouble with the links: I’m using OS 10.6.6 in Firefox.

  26. Ken Gray says:

    “Poverty Sucks!”

    LOL, I am anthropological proof of that!

    Both guys were incredible. Openness seems so much more important than being right, which seconding David’s “Fortean” take, we can’t be anyway…

  27. Hello Everyone!

    Donna and Suzanne yes as Helen posted the link is always the same. It is set up like a blog just like this one here. Each night we post up the new calls on the same page! 🙂

    http://www.thegreathealthdebate.com/blog

    Anthony thanks for your support! And everyone’s support. We are happy you are learning and growing from these calls!

    David, I will have someone in customer support trouble shoot your MAC issues!

    Much Love,
    Annmarie

  28. Brooke says:

    This has been my favorite pair of interviews so far. Thank you, Kevin! You are a great interviewer as well. You just ask the straight questions and hide your bias, which I like. You ask questions from both sides and it really opens up the conversation.

    As for what David and Daniel said, I think both guys had good points. David is right about the superfoods, super herbs, and raw foods. However, I resonate so much with what Daniel is saying. My original reason for trying to eat mainly raw vegan foods was because I thought it was the healthiest and most natural option. My initial agenda had nothing to do with ethics. As time went on and I got used to a plant based diet, the ethical argument became more of a factor for me. I love animals so much and I would never want to hurt them. Then, I listened to some of Daniel’s interviews recently talking about how the Native Americans and ancient civilizations were highly in tune with their environment, which means loving and caring for the animals around them, yet they still hunted and killed for food. I was also touched by the fact that a plant based diet is a relatively new experiment. How could raw vegan be the healthiest but not the most natural? That didn’t make sense to me so I started incorporating animal foods back into my diet. It was hard at first because of the ethical dilemma, but now I have come to respect and love animals so much more. They help to heal the land by composting grass through their stomachs. They eat bugs and pests and help to manage the landscape by eating brambles, pasture grass, and rotten fruit/veggies that have fallen to the ground. They contribute positively to their ecosystem. They also convert plant based sources of nutrients into more bio-available forms (such as converting grass to DHA). Animals are amazing creatures and I believe they are here to help the Earth and to help us. I understand the fact that with technology and supplements that animal products can be avoided, but my agenda has been and always will be to eat the healthiest, most natural diet.

    Daniel also makes a compelling argument about choosing one life form over the other. I can’t justify killing a radish by tearing it out of the ground but not killing a fish by taking it out of the water. Both life forms are going to die, it’s just that one doesn’t resemble humans as much. I grew a garden for the first time last year and it’s amazing how alive the plants are. The ethical argument for veganism/vegetarianism starts to fall apart if the concern really is about keeping life on this planet and not hurting animals. It’s really selfish for me to think that just because plants don’t feel the same pain as I do that it’s ok for me to kill them and eat them. I, for one, cannot choose plants over animals. They are both divine sparks of the Universe and ingesting anything requires the death of it (but it’s also re-born as new cells in your body after digestion).

    I guess it boils down to what are the reasons for changing one’s diet and how is your body reacting. Great interviews! Keep em coming!

  29. Thaleia says:

    Kevin, I think your comment that the chemical exposure of someone living in 1756 compared to our own is the most pertinent of all in this discussion.
    It is flawed logic to say “our ancestors ate it so we should eat it” when we do not live in the same world our ancestors lived in. There has been criticism of Colin Campbell’s interpretation of the China Study over the past few days, but no criticism at all of his animal studies. These show very clearly that at least one type of animal protein interacts dangerously with toxins in a mamalian body. Hunter-gatherers may or may not have lived long lives eating varying amounts of meat, but they weren’t exposed to the toxic load that we are just walking around in a modern city.
    It is interesting to note that all of the blue zones are relatively isolated regions where the inhabitants have comparitively little exposure to toxins and viruses – except Loma Linda.
    Our evolution as omnivores means we have bodies that can absorb nutrition from a huge variety of sources in order to survive (including grubs and insects, common food for primates and hunter-gatherers but conveniently omited by the gurus). But, to thrive into old age, in a world full of toxins, is a different challenge all together.

  30. Jensey says:

    Both interviews … top notch! I benefited from both David and Daniel. Both of them make me think … and ask more questions. I like that.

    And frankly, Daniel could easily become a rock star after his presentation. Just my opinion, but his style and ease and humor and intelligence … well, I for one have not seen them matched.

    Thanks for the best Health Talks of the series yet!

  31. David Wood says:

    Kevin,

    why is the fatty acid thing even an issue at all?

    There’s an abundance of research that proper fat ratios from plants convert just fine into DHA and EPA, and there’s less than 1 in 100 people that have a problem with it and need another solution. (at least if my memory serves me properly – it’s been a while since I researched this)

    The first night, Gabriel talked about eating ground flax and a little coconut oil, it works just fine and he said that he doesn’t run into problems.

    That being said – I eat fish from time to time, because for me, this isn’t a religion.

    I really don’t think we should get ‘hung up’ on anything here – it would solve most of the debates.

    Even though that’s the case – I still think at least 50% of what Daniel said, although incredibly articulate and compelling in the presentation, is assumptions created out of non-related details.

    (my brain works in a very similar bent, and it’s easy to see in others because I do the same thing in my own industry)

    The guy is a genius, though.

    -dave

  32. Java says:

    I personally don’t think the “squirrel with crooked teeth” is a valid comparison or example at all. There are so many other factors in animal life, such as nature tending to kill off the “weaker” and imperfect offspring, which we humans override with our reason. We put a lot more into keeping each other alive, despite our weaknesses and defects.
    Not to mention that a squirrel does not live very long anyway! As a whole, humans live a lot longer than we used to–certainly there are many factors in that, but we must be doing SOMEthing right. Cancer is a bigger factor now, partly because people simply didn’t live long enough to get it before, and if they did, no one knew what it was anyway.
    I am not saying that we shouldn’t try to avoid toxic substances and eat things in their natural states as much as possible; I’m just saying there’s a balance here.

  33. s.celsen says:

    You know it’s funny, I eat mostly raw and I eat fish and I LOVE David Wolfe, and I feel I’m pretty solid in my core beliefs and so after I listened to David for an hour I thought, “man that was good” and I was blown away, and I don’t even want to bother with the next guy, but I started listening to Daniel, and low and his points were blowing my mind!
    It’s really hard cause after only 4 nights, I am sort of confused about what my core beliefs should be now.

    Your awesome Kevin!

  34. Satori says:

    Squirrels don’t have crooked teeth. I’ve seen so many many squirrels living in LA, but never seen one with deformed teeth. Just wanted to let you know…lol.

  35. Paula F. says:

    Why is David Wolfe selling deer placenta on his website?

  36. Veronika says:

    In response to Daniel Vitalis’ description of Native American diet, here’s a great article that debunks a few myths:

    http://www.ivu.org/history/native_americans.html

  37. John H says:

    Saying that nature never makes a mistake and that there are no genetic abnormalities is wrong. I have seen several wild animals both dead and alive that have genetic abnormalities. Fortunately or unfortunately these animals do not survive long in a natural setting due to predation, starvation, or disease. (process of natural selection)
    Humans have always tried and are sometimes successful at controlling or perverting their environment (nature). We often prevent the process of natural selection. So there may be squirrels with crooked teeth but as long as the can still eat and defend themselves they will survive.

  38. Chuck says:

    You know you may not see a squirrel with crooked teeth not because they are so healthy from eating a ‘natural’ diet, but because for an animal that depends on its teeth to eat (like say a wild animal) they may just die before you have a chance to observe them…just a thought…

  39. sheri says:

    Hi
    Thank you so much for your very informative blog. I am very interested in the wild vegetation you talk about. What varieties would be a good addition as far as being very nutritious? And how do you find or purchase these? Can they be cultivated? I appreciate all your hard work and information.
    Thanks, Sheri

  40. Ivonne says:

    Hi Kevin!
    First I want to thank you for everything you do! Listening to the debates we have truly enjoy them all specially Dr. Cousins . I do have to comment on Daniel Vitalis call, we just can’t believe that somebody educated can believe what he had to say. His research is at best archaic, quoting books that since have been dimiss by new research, about the disease & deformity our society faces as he pointed out (crooked teeth) is obbiously due to the fact that we continue eating a omnivore/carnivore diet just as our ancestors plus he can’t blame process foods for this, as a majority of this problems take generations of gene mutation to happen and process food is relativlely new and as he pointed out vegan/raw vegans have no history so we aren’t involve on that ;-), just as a side note we vegetarian/vegans/raw vegans might not have whole populations in history but we have been always there, we might be the fringers & extremist yet since the times of hypocrites, Socrates, Seneca, Leonardo Da Vinci, Einstein, Tesla to name a few. All the brilliant minds and visionaries have known a Vegaterian/Vegan/raw Vegan diet is the way of the future for a symbiotic relationship with the planet & all living beings.
    By the way, on the comment he made about deforestation due to agriculture most is done by big conglomerates like Nestle for coffee, palm oil etc. For products consume by omnivoures we vegans as extremist as we are if we buy thing like that are usually fair trade, small farms and own garden. also the meat industry is the biggest deforester of them all.
    ok I could go on for a while more but I’ll stop now.
    This is just my two cents
    my husband put it “he sounds like a used car salesman”

  41. Sarah says:

    Thank you, Kevin, for putting on this amazing debate. There is so much information to digest. I really enjoyed listening to Daniel. He brought up some important points I had not thought of before. I realized it is time for me to start a health journal and really start experimenting with food to find the perfect diet for me. This couldn’t have come at a better time.

    Namaste’
    Sarah

  42. Paul says:

    Thanks Kevin for putting this all together. I am still working my way through the earlier nights and I’m not ready to “digest” this one yet. I will take my time though – I’ve bought the package.
    One of the most valuable things for me, is to hear opposing viewpoints. This makes me stop and think..
    – Which one do I believe?
    – Whose philosophy do I side with more?
    – Is there a way they can both be correct?

    And there is so much learning “in the journey”; the comments and insights that pop out of these greatly experienced people are often great revelations to me.

    Thanks again
    Paul

  43. pat says:

    I heard your speakers refer to eating from the various food kingdoms (animal, vegetable, bacterial, mycological) but no one mentioned insects (proteins, fats, etc) as an addended source of nutrition. I believe these are well-utilized by humans in other parts of the world. And even plant-eating birds use insects (caterpillars)as a high energy source for raising their young.

  44. Lisa says:

    WOW – excellent speakers tonight. I’ve learnt something from each speaker during this event, but listening to Wolfe and Vitalis was pure joy and positively saturated with solid content. What’s more their energies were focussed, palpable and engaging. I have a massive amount of respect for each person and what they represent and wish them both well. Take from it what you will, what resonates within, without judgement. The right path for yourself will present itself if you care to listen and continue to observe and respond. Such adaptations should be honoured without guilt or shame, nor should we subject prejudices upon other’s choices. Are we not ultimately ever-evolving afterall? Above all else, we need to consider the rippling effect of our choices and support each other without ego entering the frame. Kevin, much improved, congrats to you and your team, you must be flying!

  45. Annette says:

    hmm….to go have a steak or not…that is the question!!

    Thanks for this one Kevin. Both guys make some really good points.

  46. D says:

    It’s a great debate series. A comment on the claim by Daniel that there has never been a society who was vegetarian or vegan or raw and that all of this is just experiment and also just religious.

    Well, his own position is also experiment since where has there been a society that ever ate like he does? His position is also based on religion as all paleological theories are inherently religious. What Cromagnon or Neandethal or Lucy ate is what it is but they were never human nor were they ever an ancestor of humans (homo sapiens sapiens). That is a religious belief pure and simple and it takes a LOT of faith to believe it as well.

    The truth is that human existence has always been “religious”. But also all humans were totally vegetarian (if not vegan) from about 13,000 yrs ago until about 7000 yrs ago. So if vegetarianism is still an experiment then meat-eating is even more so.

    But I do admire Daniel his incredible intellect and wantingness to understand.

  47. hyesun says:

    i just finished listening to david and daniel, and all i can say is…….WOW. they both blew me away, especially daniel. incredible. as a meat eater, i was surprised at how much i liked and respected what david had to say. in fact, i also really liked dr. cousens too. they ALMOST convinced me that i might be eating too much animal foods. i guess i never really thought about the fact that even naturally/organically raised and fed animals are toxic, merely because our environment is so toxic. david, daniel, and dr. cousens have been my favorites so far. they are all so intelligent, rational, knowledgeable, and convincing. thank you so much kevin, this is so awesome!!!

  48. D- where is your proof about this diet history you claim of? Cromagnon is exactly the same as modern humans, except they were stronger and smarter. Please back up your claims…

  49. claudia says:

    I was 100% raw vegan for almost two years. Finally started adding eggs, fish and cooked Quinoa, Millet and Amaranth to my diet. Who turned me to “raw foods” (which I had never heard of before)-Daniel Vitalis!
    Now, hearing him speak about meat eating…well, I am not so convinced…but wow- isn’t he a great speaker! So knowledgable and truly ‘holistic’ in his view point. Love his strength and compassion- must not be easy to change course so radically.
    And he doesn’t lead one to believe he is just about “pushing a product” … he really is seeking the ultimate experience of health on earth. Bravo!

    Kevin, since I began this journey I have listened religously to all of you ‘raw food gurus’ out there…whilst I get ready for work, as I bounce on my trampoline…and YOU have always had the most profound impact ..thank you for being humble, open and just ‘you” (same for your sweetie)–love you guys!

  50. Jeff says:

    Thanks for an interesting program.

    I wholeheartedly disagree with the notion that vegans are somehow this novel experiment based upon religious ideas and not upon health or science.

    There are dozens of documented cultures that are primarily plant based in diet – and literally thousands of independent peer-reviewed academic studies performed all over the world that prove beyond a doubt that a vegan diet in superior in every way to eating meat, eggs, and dairy.

    This is fact. I possess the studies. Cancers? Heart disease? Parasites? Toxins? Arthritis? Gallstones? The list goes on and on. And the studies that demonstrate the dangers of any meat consumption are so numerous it’s silly that it is not common knowledge.

    The danger is when people have a convicing enough rap to sway the gullible. Meat is like cocaine. There is no amount that is safe or healthy.

    ~ Jeff

  51. Jeff – are you making a distinction from grass fed meat (high in Omega 3s) and grain fed (GMO) processed meat? Those are loaded in omega 6’s and its a totally different animal. ALL people that you claim to have had problems from this diet are eating grain fed meats and also a highly processed diet..no? Who eats grain fed meats and NOT processed foods? They are always in the same boat with most people…not really fair to point at the “meat” instead of the processed foods in general. No?

    I felt as you did…I really did, but I had to face facts and look at our true history. I feel that people are really reaching now to defend their veg identities.

  52. Grace says:

    As I am reading all of this information (thank you, Kevin, for talking about these issues and making it available!), and as I am reading each and every comment here tonight, I checked my email and read the latest blog post by Dr. Oppenlander, and it just blew all previous arguments right out of the water, like all of his posts have, for me. He is just so on point. I am wondering why HE is not one of the participants in this great health debate (besides the fact that he is not as well known, and that his first book was just recently released). He seems to be the only one who is TRULY talking about our food choices and their DIRECT impact on our planet, and not to mention on our own health, in a most well-rounded way (and in a most objective and truth-revealing way). His information and stance is so right on, it is really undeniable (unless, of course, we want to live in denial about what is actually going on). And he is not out to sell any products, unless you consider the truth about the reality of our situation a “sellable product”.

    Here is the link to his latest blog post: http://comfortablyunaware.wordpress.com/2011/02/11/the-fish-facade-part-ii/

    It is the second part of blog posts entitled “The fish facade”, although I would recommend reading all of his posts, as this is just one of many interrelated issues. I would be curious to know what many of you think about this, and I would be delighted to have more people talking about these health issues once they have considered such a well-rounded stance that is grounded in truth, such as that presented by Dr. Oppenlander. Kevin, I would like to know what you have to say about it, as you play a very important role in making this type of information available to so many people. I have read his book, “Comfortably Unaware”, and it is amazingly the only book that gives such a well-rounded look into the direct impact of our food choices. It is so simple, yet no one is talking about it like he is right now. I would encourage all of you to read it! Or at least take a look at his blog site and consider what he has to say.

    Thank you for listening to me! I thank you all for your involvement in these issues, and I thank you, Kevin, for setting something like this up for all to have access to. It is really a wonderful event!

  53. David Klappstein says:

    Kevin;

    I really enjoyed the talks, but I found that both of them reinforced their own viewpoints, and then used examples of how they eat, both of which to me are totally irrelevant, and could not be duplicated by the majority of us.
    Daniel’s comments about our ancestors eating a lot of meat and that is why we should as well, is a bit of a tenuous argument. The foods available to our ancestors is not available to the vast majority, and all food supplies are contaminated, especially the meat industry. I am neither on the meat or potatoes side of the argument here, but free range animals for consumption couldn’t be supplied in the numbers he is talking about. Those quaint little organic farms are not going to produce enough meat for the city populations of the world, so these talks of idealized diets or foods doesn’t really help. We cannot sustain the present methods of meat supply or the organic as the world grows from 6 billion to 10 billion in the next several decades. Our populations are not suddenly going to go down so we need to find a realistic solution to the problem, and to me that means we will all in general(perhaps not certain regions)have to cut our meat and dairy consumption whether we like it or not as the supplies fall behind consumption and the prices rise accordingly. It seems to me that plant based supplies are much more sustainable in the future. Do you really want the entire Amazon basin to get cut down just so we can have more beef?
    Also, again one last comment about diets that actually reverse both heart disease and cancer—-they all are strict vegan diets, so there must at least be some merit restricting meat products. There has been an enormous amount of research to verify this.
    Meat in general has many merits, but it also carries liabilities, it is not either all good or bad.
    Neither one of them convinced me to change my diet, which incidentally includes some limited meat and dairy with lots of plants(vegetables, superfoods, etc)and some appropriate supplements.

    Dave

  54. Butch says:

    Thank you Jeff. Can I have links to all those studies you talked about?

  55. J. Redd says:

    Daniel Vitalis never fails to impress me.
    I think we’re lucky to have his voice and insight and we can learn a lot from what he has chosen to focus on. Look where he is looking.
    A couple of things crossed my mind as I listened, however.

    Early Humans ate the way they did because they did not have the choice. It was determined by what was available in their environment. We have access to some incredible nutritional resources (Colostrum anyone?) that have never been available on this scale before, if at all. We have choice.

    This “Experiment” is possible because we have that choice. We have the information and the technologies to harness the nutritional power of the “Best Food Ever”. And I think that a lot of us are trying to leverage these tools in an effort to, not only, recover from our degeneration but to encourage the evolution of our species in a direction that is closer, ultimately, to the “possible human”.

    But I completely agree with him. 100%

  56. Paula F. says:

    For another spin on things, read “Eternal Treblinka: Our Treatment of Animals and the Holocaust”. It gave me a perspective that I am unable to shake about animal domestication and use in our history.

    Friends, I don’t know what the answer is — I do have to accept the possibility that it might be natural, and healthy for us to consume small amounts of a killed animal. But who is to do the slaughtering? Yourself? Your daughter or son? Would you deem that a noble vocation for your child? We give lip service to peace and love and want it for our children, but how can we ever attain that when there’s violence right on our plates? Is it really possible to gently and humanely smite out the life force of another creature, say a prayer and thank it, and that makes it all better?

    I think the answers lie very simply when things are up close and personal instead of intellectualized.

  57. Donna says:

    Kevin,

    Thanks for putting this together, great debates thus far.

    Also, thanks for your tid-bits as will on each debate.

    I noticed you said you and Annmarie is not 100% raw as well, could you explain a little more on this, I am trying to find out for myself and what is best, and was thinking that a bit of steam vegetables and possible cooked brown rice would be good – would like to hear what else you all eat..

    Thanks again keep up the good work

    God blessings

  58. Jeff J. says:

    Another awesome show and thank you for your hard work.Survival of the fittest is natures pressure on squirrels.Man has no such pressure so the point is not relevant but it is cute.

  59. Chris says:

    Kevin, I really wish you would have asked David about cacao, you had the perfect opportunity when he was talking about it. Have you ever asked him even in person? Otherwise, this was definetly the best night so far, I love these two guys, even though I don’t agree with Daniel on the animal foods, he’s still very facinating to listen to. Also, I wish you would ask more follow-up questions not just going from one question to another. Really glad this is happening though, thanks.

    Chris

  60. Tanya says:

    I LOVED this set of speakers– best so far! Smart, positive, courteous… really interesting, engaging points. THANK YOU!!

    Jeff… do what you feel is right for you, but I would hesitate to say there are such absolute truths as you have stated. I hope your defense of veganism does not get in the way of your potential to keep on learning and growing.

  61. dyson karumazondo says:

    This is a very fruitful debate
    keep this up because it benefits us readers

    Thank you
    God bless

  62. Dr Halanna B. Matthew says:

    Many Medical Doctors have proven chocolate was
    harmful. For one, Dr. Neil Barnard mentions
    in his book, “Food Seduction”, that chocolate
    acts on the same part of the brain as cocaine or heroin; it is a drug, having 5 chemicals, one of which is similar to marijuana.
    We feed it to our children in chocolate milk,
    Easter bunnies, Christmas treats, and we wonder
    why they don’t sleep and are all wired.
    People experience a faster heart beat after
    eating only a small piece of chocolate….which
    also affects the nervous system. Everyone loves it as it is an aphrodisiac and does make one feel and act better but, only for a little while. It is toxic to the body and it does not agree with everyone; just depends how attuned one is with the body, mind and spirit.
    Why is there no chocolate served in many health
    institutions and healing centers around the world? There is proof it is harmful!

  63. Kym says:

    Not to sound like a cracked record, but this series has been truly amazing and as many have said, the Vitalis man nailed it to the wall. After more than 20 years on various forms of plant-based diet, I was beginning to reach similar conclusions, but last night probably jumped me ahead months of research. (David Wolfe was also great – such a polished speaker and so cute! ;-))

    Regarding point 2, there is now a large body of evidence that diet has a significant effect on genetic expression. What you eat today could have a major effect on your descendants for several generations. The area of research is called nutrigenomics (epigenetics). To call it fascinating is a vast understatement.

  64. Geraldine says:

    Like Suzanne, I never got the link to this call either:(( so good you have these snack bites.But would have really liked to have listened to the call.

  65. Deborha says:

    Thankyou so much first of all Kevin for your amazing job of creating this wonderful platform of health information.
    I appreciate the time Daniel Vitalis has given us sharing his experience of diet, research and health, and thank him for this. I would like however to encourage him and listeners to take advantage of the plethora of research that has been forthcoming as to the archaic dates of prerecorded history and to the age of humanity—the evidence that we have been here far—far longer than previously thought…as in millions of years longer, and to the evidence of far superior cultures that make our current time period look infantile. There are cave paintings in Peru 40 million years old (and in France) depicting humans in modern garb, knickers, buckle shoes, hats, and smoking pipes, during a time when earth was supposedly (pre dinosaur?) And to the continuing evidence re; alien intervention, or starbeings I would say, having been quite involved in humanity, including splicing our DNA. There is evidence that our current human race has been engineered by them- created from a cross between star(“alien”) DNA and Homo(sapien?). Check out our ‘Sumerian” heritage. Gregg Braden is an excellent scientific source to start (www.greggbraden.com) also the holistic channel has a huge archive of material of our foremost research. The earliest advanced records we have—traditions, of prerecorded history is of the mysterious Etruscans living lives of harmony, ease, before the “fall” (according to evidence there was a ‘fall’ into duality) where plants, fruits, foods grew abundantly and no one had to labor or hunt. Ancient paintings depict this ease. For those interested click the Ancient History link on http://www.holisticchannel.org.uk/11.html to start with. This culture has no evidence of weapons of any kind. In every tradition earth has gone through several Golden ages of high civilization (far before our earliest records)—the Vedic’s being one example; and killing anybody was not on the menu– nor necessary. We have an illustrious heritage of Greatness that has been hidden from us, and I would encourage people to start asking questions, and do their own digging. The internet gives one no excuse if one has a mind for truth. Our true genetics is a fascinating subject. It all comes down to, I believe, simply in really tuning in and listening to our bodies, our intuition, and as our animal friends do, eat what we are guided to eat, our own consciousness will always guide us unerringly—and we dearly need to reconnect with this intuitive knowing we all possess. We are here ultimately to cohabitate, and co-evolve in harmony, not to dominate. Only in this way can we move forward in our conscious evolution, should we choose this.

  66. Sharon Wilson says:

    I learned so much from David Wolfe. He is so knowledgeable on all of the superfoods and superherbs we have available. I can’t wait to try some new ones. His love and passion for his field are inspiring!

  67. Peter says:

    “Have you seen a squirrel with crooked teeth?”

    When an organism adapts to its natural environment over generations it is evolving. When an organism adapts to a selfconstructed artificial environment it is degenerating.

  68. Yogi Suzi says:

    I listened to Daniel’s interview twice because he had was so passionate about sharing his wisdom that he had a lot to say. Daniel, as usual, did not miss a beat in his presentation.

    What I have noticed thus far is that some of the speakers who are eating animal foods seem to have more mental stamina for delivering their speech.

    Please know that I think ALL the speakers are brilliant! I have just noticed a couple of the vegan speakers who kind of fade out in their presentation, use the word “um” hundreds of times, and seem to have trouble with the flow of thought as it is transfered into word.

    I am living on a mountain with the most wild food around me being Deer and Pig. There are cattails, oak leaves, maple leaves, acorns, oak bark, manzanita, and wild grass but none of these foods, including the meat, call out to me at meal time. Sure I nibble at the wild foods, but have not made a lunch out of them yet.

    But it feels backwards, living out here, and each time I go to the organic health food store the food looks more foreign.

    If times got tough, would I or would I not eat meat? I don’t know. The survival instinct in each of us is quite strong, so I might.

    Daniel and David BOTH GAVE WONDERFUL TALKS!!!

    I have enjoyed EVERY BIT of the ENTIRE DEBATE thus far. THANK YOU KEVIN and all the presenters!!!!

  69. Sheri Lynn says:

    Fantastic, thanks again Kev.

    There is no confusion about dietary choice if we’re not trying to be ‘RIGHT’. There is no ‘right’ that is going to work for everyone, at every moment of their lives.

    I find it inspiring to listen to all of the information – and that is all it is, provocative information. But we can’t THINK or DECIDE or ENFORCE our way to health. We have to find a way to awareness of BEING in our own bodies, and making shifts and changes from there. In our little personal worlds, without attempting to apply our personal reality globally. This is where disagreement, negativity, anger, war come from.

    I mean, I am not even ‘right’ about what my body needs from year to year, decade to decade. Our bodies, minds, awareness shift over time – as a biological organism is meant to do. Why focus on differences and mechanics?

    The insistence on being right is what turns other people off to the entire concept of health! This doesn’t serve the planet, no matter what you eat or what beliefs you adhere to.

    Be who you are. Let that guide you. Take in the information, and remember it’s not about being RIGHT. Being who you are – vibrantly – is an attractive state that WILL serve the planet as a whole.

  70. Pam says:

    Miigwech Kevin and AnnMarie for all your hard work to put this event together. I am enjoying it tremendously. Is it too late to purchase the event at the special price? I would like to listen to the guests in the future as well. Best to you…

  71. Paul Palmer says:

    First, the things i can agree on. Like Daniel Vitalis, i have had adverse effcts on the raw vegan diet when first experimented with it over 40 years ago. I think I have solved the physiological problems now but still use heavy cooked sometimes as emotional numbing, though when i do I pay a price in overall health. Yes, most long-lived cultures do eat meat but are plant based. Saying many SDAs are not vegetarian or vegan, while somewhat true, implies that vegan SDAs are not a valid example of a long-lived healthy sub-culture. Yes, some SDAs are not vegetarians but their religious doctrine recommends vegan/vegetarian diet, so neither are a minority. Also Mormons are held up as examples of healthy long-lived meat based group. AFAIK their doctrine gives dispensation to eat meat during the winter and during famines. It was hardly practical to do otherwise in 1830s. So meat in their diet their would be in small proportions.

    To call veganism an extreme religious cult is in itself extreme. To say raw vegans are unhealthy long term, don’t live long, are weak and unhealthy is at the very best a half truth. Examples of some “short-lived vegans”: Scott Nearing (100 years), Hilton Hotema (about 96 years), Sophie Holzgreen(98 years), Tyyne Mietinen (94 years), William Esser(92 years). Here are some “weak, exhausted, unhealthy” raw vegan athletes: Dr. Douglas Graham, Michael Arnstein(champion endurance athlete), Harley Johnstone and Freelee (ultra endurance athletes), Dr. Ruth Heidrich (senior endurance athlete), Patricia Reeves (power lifting champion and marathon runner), Roger Haeske (fitness and raw food teacher).

  72. Lea says:

    It’s been fascinating to listen to the various experts and viewpoints, vegan and non-vegan. Of all the speakers, I find Dr. Donna Gates’ approach (and there were a couple of others in the same vein) that ‘everyone os unique and has to stick to what works for them’ to be the most sensible. To me that’s the most balanced and reasonable approach. We can’t give clear cult-lile guidelines and tell people what they should eat (except that I don’t believe anyone would benefit from processed / junk food! That’s just non negitiable for me :)).
    I fully agree that what good is it to eat animal protein if your body does not do well on that? All that nutrition is wasted.
    As much as I respect Dr. Sally Fallon and the Weston A. Price foundation (and I’m really looking forward to her contribution to this debate!), I find her recommendations for a diet that’s high onanimal fat / protein just not practical to maintain. It’s possible for someone who lives in a close proximity to an organic farm, but for me it’ just not doable.Organic grass fed meat is not easily available here – organic butter is available, but it’s very expensive.. And no matter how highly they talk about all the benefits of animal fats, I just can’t see myself eating suet and tallow… Sorry Dr Fallon! I’ll stick to the coconut oil, which I love and which makes me feel great.
    I think that the meaning of word ‘balance’ has proven its worth again – pushing one kind of diet or ideology is not going to work for everyone and will not lead to ultimate health.

  73. Ann Patterson says:

    First of all, Thank You! Truly exceptional presentations. And, Kevin, never, ever, have I witnessed an interview format that puts the speaker at ease and in the spotlight like this one. Unlike most interviewers, you have the ability to let the speaker speak without interfering and slanting the interview with comments and questions. Truly, you have a special gift to let the speakers speak. I continue to enjoy the calls and have learned so much from each speaker. The highlight for me remains how much everyone agrees about some key issues…the inhumanity of factory farms, the sheer insanity of unleashing GMOs on our planet, the need to eat for health and longevity, the need to drink clean water, the need to begin reversing the damage that we have caused Mother Earth, and the absolute life and species threatening nature of the SAD. How do we mobilize the speakers and listeners taking advantage of your spectacular series to have an impact of the same weight that a Monsanto has in our world? I liked David’s request that we all begin to take our thinking to the next level. How do we go from spending all of our energy on determining what we eat in this generation and begin to think more about how to improve the health and welfare of the generations to come? With the strength, positive energy and commitment of this group, change can be ours. Thank you again. Totally impressive. Ann

  74. Cindy says:

    I was on the 80/10/10 diet for 2 years religiously as I am a vegan distance runner. A few months ago, I developed acid reflux and an ulcer. I also developed tooth erosion. I was vegetarian for 15 years prior to experimenting with 80/10/10. I never had this problem before I began a high fruit diet. I am not a big citrus fruit eater or dried fruit lover, so they were not the cause of this problem. I followed this diet to the letter. Unfortunaley, it did not work for me. My energy levels were amazing until about a month ago. I began eating organic goat’s milk yogurt to heal my ulcer and help with the acid reflux. It worked from the first spoonful, and I am feeling normal again. I tried eating totally raw the other day as an experiment, and the reflux returned. There is something to be said for everyone’s individuality when it comes to diet. There is no one super diet for everyone.

  75. Gini says:

    I enjoyed both David and Daniel’s talks. Thank you Kevin and Annmarie for this!!

    I like the comment by Peter #68 about man’s diet’s role in evolving or degenerating the body- very good!

    I agree with others who said primitive diet doesn’t have any relevance to what we should eat now (as evolving beings).

    After sleeping on the talks I woke this morning with a realization that it is not about right or wrong, but about vibration or frequency. It is first thing in the morning that I can feel the difference certain foods have on me, and not just physically. It can manifest in a different level of dreams or physically in the way I feel when I wake up, both physically and emotionally. I think it has to do with the frequency of the food I ate the day before. Or even the purity of it. Some chocolate is contaminated with other things such as roach parts so can affect the energy of it. David talked about cacao having sun energy and about other of the super foods having the ormus, or earth energy and about needing a balance. I do think it is possible that David may be addicted to chocolate and that may affect his thinking, but think he is on to something in the vibratory frequency of the things we put in our bodies.

  76. Sandra says:

    Thank-you Kevin for putting together these debates. So much food for thought. I think it is great to listen to people that have opposing views. It is a great learning tool. I am seeking truth , not any ones dogma. Blessings to all.

  77. oreganol says:

    1. “Raw Foodists are extreme in nature.” – I agree with Kevin’s comments. But in the press the word ‘extreme’ usually has a negative meaning. It’s an easy way to discredit people without having a proper debate. For example, the press often label any views outside the mainstream as ‘extreme’. e.g. politics, food, sport. Although in the case of sport, it appears to have a positive meaning.

    2. Have you seen a squirrel with crooked teeth?
    I have always thought this. Wild animals always seem to be healthy, as long as they can find enough food. Take an animal from the wild and feed it the human way and they are soon full of disease. Wild animals don’t eat processed food.

    6. The power of wild food. I totally agree with this, but the problem is that this will only work for the few. Either there is not enough wild food for everyone or harvesting it is too labour intensive. If everyone ate it then it would soon be gone. I think one of the problems is that we know what to do as individuals, but have no idea what to do about the entire population.

    7. I can’t believe the comments! – That people have the complete opposite view when presented with the same thing is because people filter everything through their belief systems. An example – some people think they are lucky in life and some think they are unlucky. The ‘lucky’ person who falls down the stairs and breaks their leg will tell you how lucky they are because they could have broken their neck or back and ended up in a wheelchair. Instead they are very lucky to only have a broken leg. The ‘unlucky’ person will tell you that this is proof of how unlucky they are. After all, how many other people are unlucky enough to break their leg. But the exact same things happened to both these people. It just happened. It wasn’t lucky or unlucky. It just was.

  78. Mr. Vitalis mentioned that no tribe in the world were raw. Well, we should reconsider this as in ancient Greece there were some well known people around the globe that they were suggesting the raw food diet. For example Plato suggested to his students to stay away from meat, to eat sprouts, salads, etc Pythagoras, Hippocrates the father of the medical science, and so many other. civilizations were sacrificing humans to Gods,tribes were eating each other…..
    Its not bad for the humanity to evolve and stop the killing

  79. Lauren says:

    http://www.comfortablyunaware.com PLEASE check out Dr. Oppenlander’s book and get him on here…he is by far the most articulate, accurate, factual, and unique author I’ve come across regarding food choices and their effects on overall health of the world and all that exists on the planet Earth. Sustainability is such a misused word, after reading Dr. Oppenlander’s blogs and book, it really puts into perspective how ridiculous all of these other authors are when talking about “sustainability”…anyone who cares at all about their own health, the health of the community, the health of our environment, or anything involving the future and the best way to live NEEDS to talk to Dr. Oppenlander! THANK YOU!!

  80. Marj says:

    WAOOOOO!!!! this has been quite a journey for a lot of us. Want to find answers to our questions. Interesting enough a lot of these answeres lie right inside ourselves. That is call intuition. Anything done in extreme is simply put: NOT GOOD” all in moderation. Eating, talking, loving, doing, thinking,……but, what happens!!!!! when the body start to scream and ask for help, then we look in all directions. Hmmmm, should i go here or there? Life is meant to be lived simply but we love to complicate it. We want to be different! Human nature…some will say. We are all here in this one tiny planet called Earth. Do what works for you….listen…follow your intuition. Don’t need to go amd jump in the lake because someone saids is very healing for you. I pick the best from this debate that i am not doing and i will try to see if my body will resonate with it. If it doesn’t like it i won’t take it. Very simple.
    This has been an eye opener for those that never gave it a thought what is like to eat healthy

  81. Paul Cavanaugh says:

    If I heard correctly, Daniel Vitalis refutes the research that connects animal cholesterol with with heart problems. Who is he to deny this research?

    Daniel’s contention is that the “natural” diet, i.e. historic diet, is the healthiest diet, but that is not necessarily true. How would he explain that Seventh Day Adventists (male) who are vegetarians live 7.2 years longer than Adventists (male) who eat meat?

    Also noticed that when Daniel was in his raw food/vegan phase, he kept trying to get the initial “high” that came when he first started the diet. So he kept eliminating more and more food sources, which appears to have caused him to eventually quit. Psychologically, you cannot keep experiencing “the high” and perceive it to be a high as it becomes one’s natural state.

    His arguments against vegans using bees for pollination & animal manure on the fields are also odd. While Daniel is a great speaker, his arguments are in general, the most illogical of the debate speakers I have listened to.
    Kevin-thanks for putting this together!

  82. I really enjoyed Daniel and David Wolfe! I appreciate it when people talk about their own personal struggles. As someone who is new to all this it is nice to hear from others that I need to listen to my own body and be willing to try things before I find what works for me. It is not a one size fits all and I think that too many people try to make you feel like it is. I was a vegetarian for 4 years and it didn’t work for me but I was also not as educated about the minerals and other things that I should have been including in my diet at the time. I was a potato chip veg head so now I am trying to be educated and learn from others as I slowly move back into the no meat world. This debate has been very eye opening and I can’t say thanks enough to taking it on.

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