Do the Blue Zones Tell Us What to Eat? : Great Health Debate Night 2 Snack Bites

Tuesday Feb 8 | BY |
| Comments (64)

sunset-on-the-nicoya-peninsula
If you saw this every night, you’d live long too. (Sunset on the Nicoya Peninsula)

We’re moving onward with The Debate…

Jonny Bowden and Dr. Joel Fuhrman had some great things to say last night and here are my Snack Bites from their lectures.

(For those of you wondering about Sally Fallon and T. Colin Campbell, please stay tuned, we’ll have an update in the near future!)

Let’s get on with it…

1. “The Blue Zones” do include meat, but here’s what is most common between all of them…

Jonny Bowden mentioned the book “The Blue Zones” by Dan Buettner. This book examines the diets of 4 places around the world where the population tends to live longer than the norm.

These are Sardinia, Italy; Okinawa, Japan; Loma Linda, California; and the Nicoya Peninsula, Costa Rica.

Each of these populations of people do, in fact, eat animal products. Even some of the Seventh Day Adventists in Loma Linda who are vegetarian as a religious practice do eat animal protein from time to time including fish, eggs and dairy – so many are not pure vegetarian (or vegan.)

This is evidence that you can still live a long life if you eat meat or animal products.

It’s also evidence that if you eat a lot of plants (which they all do), leave out processed sugars, high stress (for at least 3 blue zones), excess salt, and foods in a box you can live long too.

Which piece of evidence is more important and does it mean that meat provides important nutrients that you can’t get from plants of supplementation?

I don’t know for sure, but in my own nutrition study, I’ve read and even seen a lot of groups of people who eat very differently and live long.

That’s a big red flag to me.

Maybe it’s not just the food.

The common thread I see is leaving out the foods that feed our processed society.

Another, much bigger, consideration is what they do for their health outside of diet.

Let me put it this way, Annmarie and I have been to the Nicoya Peninsula in Costa Rica. It’s beautiful and about as laid back as any place we’ve ever been.

The Costa Ricans practice a philosophy of “pura vida” or “the pure life” which basically flatlines their stress at level zero or non-existent.

What do you think living by the beach in a tropical environment, eating natural foods and having no stress would do for your health?

I think I know the answer to that one.

You’d live to be 100 too.

2. Health studies done on meat are not done on organic, wild fed animals.

I knew this was true, but to hear Jonny Bowden speak about the fact that almost all of the studies he’s read about meat eating and diet have not considered the quality of the animal products makes me question (as I always do) much of our science and what it all means in the largest picture – which is what to eat.

It doesn’t move me to eat meat, it just makes me think more about our science beliefs and the evidence – like the Blue Zones provide – that is right in front of us.

Do we even need study when we can ask those who are doing it already?

I’m not interested in pushing anyone to eat any particular way. Your body, your blood work and your chosen health coach can figure out what is best for you.

I’m just looking for truth in our understanding of nutrition and the information being given to us in order to argue very valid and convincing points.

Ecologically speaking, the world needs us to eat less meat. The system is completely unsustainable as it is now. So if it’s the “science” or the pressure on the earth that leads us to less consumption of resources, I don’t mind.

I just want to have some integrity when explaining points to people who may not understand all the implications – health and ecologically – that we’re faced with.

What really are the most convincing arguments? What arguments should we – as conscious eaters – shelve for ones that will be more easily understood by people who aren’t thinking like we are.

These are important questions to ask.

We all can live on a high raw, high plant-based diet. That’s true for sure. The evidence is in a majority of the societies that have been before us.

What makes us in the modern world any different and why do we just want to study everything and overlook that evidence?

I’m not sure.

These people are our relatives, they’re just like us.

3. Is there anything wrong with the China Study?

Jonny Bowden had some things to say that questioned the validity the China Study – or parts of it. I’m not going to delve into those now, since we have T. Colin Campbell in the line up to address his work, but I will say this…

Not every study is perfection.

I, for at least the first 3 years or so since the release of the China Study in 2005, have been using the it as an example for all plant-based diet eaters to follow.

I’ve also heard countless experts reference the book as well. It was only a matter of time that someone took out a microscope and over-analyzed it.

I’m sure you can find fault in it.

I’m sure you can also find fault in all the archeological studies done that show we should eat a diet filled with animal protein as well.

We have to look at the trends in research like Dr. Mercola and Dr. Cousens discussed in the first evening.

Trends give us evidence of repeatable results that start to help us come to true understanding.

Unfortunately, there are trends both ways when it comes to wild animal protein and plant foods – at least with the science we have now.

Do we need more science? Do we listen to our relatives? What do you think?

Jonny also mentioned a possibility that there was a correlation in the original study that showed a decrease in the incidence of cancer for smokers.

I’ve looked everywhere, but can’t find that.

I’ll send him a note to see where he found it.

(I will also tell you that Jonny does mean it when he says that T. Colin Campbell is a “lovely man” in the interview, that is very sincere.)

4. High sodium and the risk of hemorrhagic stroke.

Dr. Joel Fuhrman spoke adamantly about the higher incidence of hemorrhagic stroke for the Japanese and the correlation between their higher salt diets.

This has also been a trend he’s seen in the plant-based movement.

What this means, according to him, is that we need to watch our sodium intake.

Less is definitely better.

But what about sea salt? Doesn’t this have trace minerals that are beneficial to my body?

Yes, sea salt does have trace minerals, but it also is 90-98% sodium.

Excess sodium in the body, trace minerals or not, is not a good thing.

Where do you get sodium then?

You can get it from vegetables!

You also can get a significant amount of trace minerals in your sea veggies without all the excess sodium.

5. Dr. Fuhrman and Jonny Bowden both want us to eat more vegetables – there is more similarity than opposition.

Both Dr. Fuhrman and Jonny Bowden want us to eat more vegetables. I think that may be the overriding truth that you’ll hear over the next 6 nights.

My question is does the nutrition discussion have to go any further than that?

Think about it, what if the majority of the population just ate the recommendations that Michael Pollan suggests?

“Eat food, not too much, mostly plants.”

If so, there would be significantly less disease, significantly less animal cruelty, significantly less argument about nutrition and we’d be able to move on and focus on things like living a fulfilled life.

Those on the fringe, like us, could have discussions back and forth, but we’d understand that we as an entire population are moving toward optimal, not slipping back like we are now.

That sounds pretty good to me.

But clearly, that’s way too simple for our “intelligent” minds to believe.

There MUST be more… right?

I’m convinced there is, but it’s not in the food.

6. Apparently, there are some meat healing centers.

Yes, apparently, there are some places that use meat and flesh foods for healing.

After posting yesterday, a few readers shared some centers around the world that serve some or even a lot of meat and animal products for healing.

I appreciate everyone for sharing and officially go on the record here to say I was wrong. 🙂

I have no experience with these places and have no idea about their credibility since I’ve never been to them.

We have been to True North Health Center in Santa Rosa, CA, Tree of Life Rejuvenation Center in Patagonia, AZ, Hippocrates Health Institute in West Palm Beach, FL, and The Gerson Institute.

These are all plant-based and we think all of them are worth consideration if you are thinking about going to a healing center.

7. Debate vs. lectures.

On the format of the event, we’ve had a lot of great feedback from many people who like the new format of two lectures a night because it allows the experts to form full thoughts and present their cases well. I tend to like this structure better as well for educational purposes.

Some others have written in saying that they preferred debate style interviews, where experts face off with each other and challenge point and counterpoint.

On this note, some are saying that Dr. Mercola and Dr. Cousens were civil, why couldn’t the others be the same?

Dr. Mercola and Dr. Cousens were both incredible to work with and I feel like my personal and professional relationship with them both allowed us to be able to have them on together.

If this relationship did not exist, they may not have said yes.

I hope that everyone understands how monumental it was for the two of them to get together on the same call and do it for you. It took an incredible amount of professionalism and care to do something like that. They both allowed their differences to be set aside for the greater good.

Some of the other experts (not all) were not willing to debate like this – if you add scheduling issues for those who were willing to debate and matching up experts who were opposed on various topics you may begin to understand how much of a chess game this was.

On top of that, there are many moving pieces and parts, past histories and other things we cannot control that goes into getting these events together – particularly this one.

It was challenging enough to get a line up like we did, let alone have them on the same calls and make sure that it was extremely valuable!

So this will be the last I chat about this for now. I stand by the format we have now, since I believe many of these experts haven’t been given our line of questioning with the intention to prove their points under the same roof like this.

The experts prepared diligently for this event, and I will venture to guess, they don’t do as much prep work for other lectures, radio shows and calls.

We made sure they knew this event was important. 🙂

Please listen with an open mind and enjoy what we’ve created for you!

BTW: If you’re not a part of the debate and want to be click here.

If you want to get the copies of the calls with transcripts, please click here.

**
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Live Awesome!
Kev

Kevin Gianni

Kevin Gianni is a health author, activist and blogger. He started seriously researching personal and preventative natural health therapies in 2002 when he was struck with the reality that cancer ran deep in his family and if he didn’t change the way he was living — he might go down that same path. Since then, he’s written and edited 6 books on the subject of natural health, diet and fitness. During this time, he’s constantly been humbled by what experts claim they know and what actually is true. This has led him to experiment with many diets and protocols — including vegan, raw food, fasting, medical treatments and more — to find out what is myth and what really works in the real world.

Kevin has also traveled around the world searching for the best protocols, foods, medicines and clinics around and bringing them to the readers of his blog RenegadeHealth.com — which is one of the most widely read natural health blogs in the world with hundreds of thousands of visitors a month from over 150 countries around the world.

64 COMMENTS ON THIS POST

Comments are closed for this post.

  1. James Kahan says:

    Kevin,

    Sorry to keep banging on about the, but this Great Health Debate is possibly the best single health event i have been lucky enough to experience.

    Thanks again for all your hard work!

  2. Judith says:

    Can you name the health centers that do include meat I am interested

  3. Melina says:

    I have a comment about healing centers that use animal foods. I do not have an exact quote of this right now because I do not have this book on me. However, I remember that in the book Traditional Foods are your Best Medicine by Dr. Ron Schmid he talked about Max Gerson’s healing protocol. A key component to the original Gerson protocol was raw liver juice. This key food was helping people heal from lupus.. I think they also used yogurt, but this I do not remember as clearly. Also there were successful tuberculosis sanotoriums that used raw milk to heal patients in the 1900’s.

  4. Gideon Graff says:

    Is T. Colin Campbell a Rabid Vegan?

  5. Heather says:

    Thank you so much for this fantastic experience. I am really enjoying the Debate. I have a few comments:

    Regarding salt intake- I have very low blood pressure and I’ve read that increasing salt will help to normalize it.

    Also, I have to wonder how much one’s faith in the healthful and healing properties of food actually determine its nutritional effect. Perhaps its not “you are what you eat” but “you are what you think” to some extent.

  6. Kevin,

    Thank you for putting this event together. I also want to thank the speakers. They had me sitting on the edge of my chair the entire time. I learned a great deal in short amount of time.

  7. Sue says:

    “Ecologically speaking, the world needs us to eat less meat. The system is completely unsustainable as it is now.”

    I don’t know if eating less meat would do it. We need to look at crops too.

  8. fedup says:

    I spent time in two German rehab centers. They both served meat. I am not sure whether they qualify as healing centers, but they are centers people are sent to after suffering a stroke, multiple sclerosis, etc.

  9. lu weiss says:

    I registered for the debate and have tried to access it buthave not been able to. i never got the mail for instructions.

    really dissapointed, lu weiss

  10. lu weiss says:

    i regestered for the debate, never got the instructions, and have not been able to access it,

    very dissapointed, lu weiss

  11. Stephanie/Cliff says:

    Thank you Kevin for putting together this Great Debate. We are absolutely interested, and enjoying every minute. It is tremendously helpful. 

  12. Gail says:

    Really enjoyed last nights discussion with Fuhrmand and Bowden.

    You’ve done an excellent job, Kevin! Thanks, we all appreciate you!

  13. Gail says:

    Oops that was Fuhrman AND..

    btw..Dr. Fuhrman didn’t mention anything abour fruit; or fructose. I’m not sure how I ‘feel’ about Jonny’s comments about fruit and fructose; or what part fruit plays, so can you ask, Kevin?

    Thank you!

  14. Cam says:

    I’ve pulled some quotes from this summary that I think need a little more scrutiny…

    “Ecologically speaking, the world needs us to eat less meat.”

    That in and of itself is an important topic. I, however, believe that annual crops — not animals — need to be cut back on. Agriculture is devastating to top-soil, and unless farmers consider this in their practices they will end up destroying their soil or producing inferior, nutrient-lacking crops.

    “Yes, sea salt does have trace minerals, but it also is 90-98% sodium.”

    I’m pretty sure the number is 84%. Which is the same salinity as our blood, so I’m not convinced this is true.

    But I agree with this:
    “You also can get a significant amount of trace minerals in your sea veggies without all the excess sodium.”

    “Think about it, what if the majority of the population just ate the recommendations that Michael Pollan suggests?
    ‘Eat food, not too much, mostly plants.'”

    That is way too simple, even for the general population. Besides, high carb, high plant diets don’t work for everyone. You’d have a hard time getting this across to the general public and not to mention the trouble they’ll have with sticking to it. People like their meat, and because it’s natural to eat and therefore healthy for them, they shouldn’t deprive themselves of it because it becomes “common knowledge” that we should eat that way.

    All in all this is a phenomenal week-long discussion you’ve managed to put together Kevin and on behalf of everyone THANK YOU! I’m expecting some good debates from your guests. =]

  15. Veronica says:

    Kevin,

    Outstanding job on interviews! I have really enjoyed both nights and look forward to the rest. ALL speakers have made me consider their points of view and rethink how I have been eating (or trying to eat) based on what I thought was right for my body. My questions are being answered.

    Thank you. Thank you.

    Veronica

  16. Dianne says:

    Very impressed with this debate. Thank you for all of your hard work & your wife as well for making this possible.

  17. hyesun says:

    i really enjoyed jonny bowden. joel fuhrman, not as much – i disagreed with many things he said. for one – even though i’ve been drinking fresh celery juice (which has lots of natural sodium) everyday for the past 3 years or so, my serum sodium level has been chronically low, which can be dangerous. my blood pressure is low too. so in the past year or so i’ve had to consciously use much more himalayan salt. also, i eat clean animal products almost everyday and my uric acid level is very low. i also don’t experience the symptoms he described in between meals.

    dr. nicholas gonzalez, who is a protege of dr. william kelley (he cured himself of stage 4 pancreatic cancer w/ nutrition, pancreatic enzymes, coffee enemas, liver cleanses, etc), treats many cancer patients with alternative and natural therapies, and he uses meat, as did dr. kelley when he cured himself. of course he assesses each individual differently, depending on their metabolic type. i don’t know if it’s technically a “healing center”, but i’d go there if i had cancer.

  18. Tim Miller says:

    These lectures are fantastic. I have never commented on your site before, Kevin, but you have done a great job putting this together – I am in awe that you could pull it off. The quality of information is incredible. I don’t have a preference as to debating format versus lecture format. The first 2 nights, which were different in this respect, were both excellent.

  19. Melina says:

    Also, Dr. Timothy Brantley has had great success healing serious illness (including cancer) and he includes quality animal foods in the diet he recommends like grass fed raw milk,raw pastured eggs and lightly cooked quality meat and fish. I recommend his book called The Cure.

  20. Johann says:

    Great event as always. I have to say though, I was looking forward the a debate! Any chance you could at least ask the two participants the same question back to back and have them answer individually? This would allow for an actual interaction between the two, maybe with out the possible carnage if they were on the same line! Are there going to be more debates like the first one? I really enjoyed that!

  21. Christine Flato says:

    Thank you for the programs. Very good information.

  22. Butch says:

    1. There’s no question about people living long on meat. The question is do they thrive and could they recover from any disease on it. There are people have recovered from cancer, aids, diabetes and other diseases on a raw vegan diet.

    2. There have been many critics of Dr. T. Colin, including Dr. Mercola. Dr. Colin refuted all critiques on his work, so you will want to check out that article as well to get a full understanding of whether his work stands.

    3. Even though I like a lecture series, when I think debate I do think about the two people on the call at the same time and answering each point by point and refuting and discussing. That’s where we would pick up the best information instead of having to sort through the all the information and decide on our own what the contrasting information means.

  23. Jonathan says:

    the question for me is, can we be healthy NOT eating meat? I believe so, and if so, then the health on all levels that comes from a non violent diet far out weighs any perceived benefits. We are a body, mind, spirit, lets eat like one.

  24. Mila Ilina says:

    Awesome call! I respect both doctors equally, but I felt slightly disappointed with Dr. Joel Fuhrman’s interview.. I was hoping for a much stronger argument from him. I was more impressed with what Dr. Bowden had to say! I felt he backed up his position much stronger.

    Thanks for an amazing event! Till tomorrow 😉

  25. David Klappstein says:

    Kevin;

    I have no quarrel with those who choose to eat meat and dairy. That is their right. The problem I have with saying that we should all eat like our ancestors, and we would be healthier, somehow doesn’t make common sense to me. I agree with Sue’s comments that we should strive to eat less meat and diary. It is fine for the early adopters to eat range fed animals of all kinds, but that seems to me is just not sustainable at the levels required to meet the world’s food requirements. That paradigm will very quickly run out of gas if the masses of people adopted it. It will be nice while it lasted, but it cannot be sustained, not with the population and population growth of the earth over the next 50 years. Nice try, but I’m not buying it. We need to adopt a sustainable diet life style. And that is more important than arguing about the ideals of the diet.
    I also concur with Kevin and others about stress, etc. All good points.

    Dave

  26. Misty says:

    Thank you for this most valuable series.

    What a fabulous venue you’ve created here!

    In good health

  27. Sarah Love says:

    first, i would like to commend you on putting together an amazing series of lectures. i really feel that this is some groundbreaking stuff! forks up to you!

    and secondly, i would like to applaud you for your very through “snack bites” and reviews of the discussed material. it’s great to see continued fluid research and discussion on these topics.

    thanks again for all of your much appreciated hard work! 🙂

  28. zia says:

    I want to mention -Dr. Bernard Jensen – and his book on raw goat milk. He had a center at some point, where people could go and heal, using raw goat milk. I have had amazing experiences myself with raw goat milk and raw liver drinks.

    Also I am concerned about the sustainability of an all plant based diet. I agree with the people who commented above.. Diversity I think is key and balance. As well as small scale organic/biodynamic farming. Locavore! It seems to me that the raw food movement relies on tropical produce being shipped from far away places. Is that a sustainable way to live? I understand we are a global village- but what about connecting with the people who grow our food locally? And perhaps we are more–” we are what we think” – then “we are what we eat”..like the person above mentioned. I know two people in there late 80s and they are going strong on a diet (if you can believe– of mostly processed food-also not a diet I advocate)that I would die on – not strive on , but these elders I know have an amazing positive attitude about life. They love the work they do(yes they still work) and are very involved in there communities. They golf 18 holes 3x a week and seem as young as a 65 yr. old. They have no dogma about their food- whats good or bad for them- they just eat what they like. They are not under weight or over. But mostly what I see, is they are loving and kind and at peace with themselves and the choices they have made in their lives. They are happy and sincere…so interesting!

  29. Sue says:

    Butch, Colin Campbell doesn’t do a very good job refuting his critics. You just have to read the critics to see all the valid points they bring up and they include references. Colin doesn’t seem to do that.

  30. Anatol says:

    Currently, it takes 30% of all land surface to grow all the animals for food; this requires tremendous resources of energy, water, air, crops to feed the animals, and large $ subsidies by gov. More crops are grown for feeding the “food” animals than for feeding people directly. And at what cost? The air, water, soil are all polluted and so are the animals… resulting in 85% of Americans suffering from overweight, obesity, diabetes, cancer, heart, etc… plus addictions to the foods that create these problems…

    If everyone all over the world ate as much meat as Americans, we would need 3 extra earth planets to raise all the animals. This alone, is yet another serious scenario for the extinction of human race. reference: http://www.worldpreservationfoundation.org/events.php

    I should also mention that another huge toxic factor are all the processed “dead” foods which basically are created due to greed without any consideration to health. So let us take note that this is one huge factor all the participants in this debate would agree on… and move on from there… processed foods have all these harmful ingredients: salt, sugars, flour, extracted oils, over-processed grains, animal flesh, unnecessary additives…

    I do appreciate that no two snow flakes are alike and that each of us 7billion has a unique POV…
    Here’s my POV from 40 years being a pretty good vegan complementing my spiritual practices nicely… but not without some mistakes… some of which were corrected about 9 years ago after attending one of Dr Fuhrman’s free lectures…

    Dr Fuhrman’s approach is what i call common sense and honest brilliant science. To those who are mathematically inclined, it should be obvious that his health equation[ health = nutrients / calories ] is a brilliant starting point for making the Knowledge of Nutrition into a Real Science of Nutrition… instead of a never-ending debate.

    The health equation tells us that green vegetables are the most nutrient dense “superfoods” if you will; several other speakers are obviously also in favor of eating lots of greens; even this alone would be a great way to improve ones nutrition and make it more alkaline…

    Where do you get your protein? Where does a grazing cow get her protein? And broccoli has more protein per calorie than steak… protein is not really the issue… nutrient density… how much nutrition are you getting from the food you eat… is…

    Animal flesh may have lots of protein… but zip of the healing micro-nutrients found in greens etc…

    Dr Fuhrman’s Nutritarian appoach includes all the other veggies, fruit, healthy fats from seeds, nuts, avocados, beans… (and a little bit of whole grains for some )

    He also recommends getting tested for deficiencies D, B12, DHA and supplementing accordingly. And if you are still not thriving, which can happen for a few, an amino acid profile usually can help identify perhaps a Taurine or other deficiency…

    For a serious DHA deficiency, he probably would recommend a pharmaceutical filtered fish oil…

    That’s it folks… this has been working for me nicely…

    OH ! i strongly recommend everyone to see the new documentary coming out this spring :
    http://www.fatsickandnearlydead.com entertaining, informative, inspiring, reversal of “incurable” diseases and freedom from a boxful of meds

    God Bless everyone to find suitable food for health, wisdom, happiness, peace, and ‘spiritual awakening’
    Anatol
    PS ~ personally i would love to be a breatharian !

  31. Suzanne says:

    I am most appreciative, Kevin, of your thoughtfulness in integrating all of the data. Rather than being swayed by how you feel or what you want to believe, you are very rational and scientific in examining the variables that may lead to health. It is true that a variety of indigenous societies eat quite differently from one another and many thrive. The quote of Michael Pollan, “Eat food, not too much, mostly plants,” could and should probably be the foundation that unifies us in these discussions (and probably, “don’t eat processed food or chemicals” should be added). Lifestyle, stress, exercise, etc. need to be factored in. Thereafter, perhaps it’s tweeking that we are doing–but the main foundation of our eating and health plan is already laid. Thank you, thank you, thank you for being a voice of reason and balance in this struggle for answers to finding health!

  32. Jenny James says:

    Thanks very much for this Kevin it’s fascinating and I’ve heard lots of new research and theories that are new to me.Well done for being a calm dispassionate presenter. I can see how this could all degenerate into fireworks with so many people with passion for their views !

  33. Pamela says:

    I’ve realy enjoyed what I’ve heard so far, but am also left with a feeling that I have more questions then answers. Each expert makes a powerful case for their viewpoint – even though they are opposing viewpoints. The best bits for me are the comments that Kevin makes after each debate. His thoughts and input help me to cut through to things that start to make sense.

  34. Robin Janis says:

    I lived at the Gerson Institute in San Diego back in the 1980’s and a part of the healing protocol was organic drop-calf liver and carrot juice once to twice daily for virtually all cancer patients. I belief the healing protocols at least in San Diego only included the liver juice and not eating of meat. Also in the 1980’s was the work of Dr. Revici, a little known pioneer of treating many end-stage cancers with his own selenium based medicines. Dr. Nick Gonzales knew Revici as they both worked out of NYC. At the time, Dr. Gonzales protocols included massive amounts of coffee enemas and vitamin supplements, and used a specific kind of blood work and blood work interpretation. Revici and Gonzales seemed to focus on whether various diseases were catabolic or anabolic (from a process of over breakdown or over build up in the body) and to adjust diet accordingly. At the time not one of them said anything about eliminating meat from the diet but to be fair, at that point in time there was Ann Wigmore and a few others but not the voluminous information and discourse concerning diet that there is today.

  35. Paul says:

    Kevin,
    Thanks so much for another great night on the Great Health Debate! I thought Dr. Fuhrman was outstanding and on target. You are to be commended for putting together this debate.

  36. Rose says:

    These debates are fascinating. Thank you so much for organizing them. In the last one I listened to, I found Dr Fuhrman particularly interesting and inspiring.

    I’m very confused about salt, though, because Dr Cousens, who I also thought was excellent, uses such a lot of salt at The Tree of Life and I believe he says that it’s very cleansing for the body! (It certainly makes the food taste good!)

    Can anyone clarify this? I’d so like to be able to belive Dr Cousens on this!

  37. Chris G says:

    Sue, you seem to be putting in a lot of opinion and not a lot of facts – like most meat eaters. As I said on the discussion wall, both meat eaters have essentially LIED. Carnitine IS found in plant-based sources: as opposed to Dr. Bowden’s claim. And Carnosine isn’t even an amino acid, but a peptide that is assembled even in vegans. The only reason meat eaters get it from meat is because they choose to override the lives of other animals that created Carnosine in their own bodies.

    A vegan diet is suitable for all people. I firmly believe that people who were ex-vegan weren’t committed in the first place and just did it for a fad or to be chic. I’ve been vegan for four years now. Never ran more than a mile in my life and within less than 6 months of running I was running 10 miles+ with ease.

  38. Milagros says:

    I would like to know more about the benefits of WHEY and if it inrferes with a vegetarian diet, especifically, I want to know about RenewPro Whey

  39. Sheri Lynn says:

    Kev, thanks for all your hard work putting this week together.

    What stuck out for me, in your comments, was this line (about healing centers that use meat):
    “I have no experience with these places and have no idea about their credibility since I’ve never been to them.”

    I’m listening to the nightly lectures, I live next door to Dr Cousen’s Tree of Life, I do not thrive on a vegan diet and yet eat primarily raw. I do not eat grain/soy/dairy/sugars because my body doesn’t tolerate them at all.

    What I like about that line I quoted, is that folks tend to get all fired up about ‘it has to be this way for everybody’ (on diet) and all defensive about whichever route they are taking. It’s truly hysterical. For all of us, our singular experiences are going to keep us in the dark. To stay open, to understand we are living on a planet that is host to a extremely wide variety of life and circumstance – true open-mindedness and acceptance (as beautifully demonstrated by Cousens and Mercola the other night) is where we will, I suspect, find peace.

    The bottom line from all of this discussion that I DO find applicable across the board: avoid processed foods, they kick your ass.

  40. First…THANK YOU!! I am learning so much..and I love the format! I have never heard of Jonny Bowden; but, for some reason, his common sense approach to nutrition resonated with me. I became a vegan for etjical reasons, but have thrived eating meat. His message has helped me combine these two truths: compassion or animals and thriving on a diet that helps me! I live with 6 carnivores (4 dogs and 2 cats) that eat a raw meat diet. It is time I include this. I will check out the beef and salmon sources he mentioned in his talk.
    As far a salt goes, it is also processed…this is why it i dangerous (just like bleached floyr and sugar). I add Himalayan sea salt and trace minerals to my water because pure raw salt is needed for health. Again, the common message that PROCESSED FOODS KILL rings true here as well.

  41. Galina L. says:

    I don’t think that agriculture is a good answer for a rising global population as well. Agricultural crops are a danger for habitats as well. I don’t consider the environmental approach is a very valuable one when it comes to a personal nutrition. It would be the best for nature if we all ceased to exist or at list start eating one another. Who knows? May be in a future people will be to breading insects for their protein. Scorpion looks like miniature lobster, small shrimps are pretty much incests-like. We don’t know about what is ahead.

    Now the huge part of population in USA and Europe developed insulin resistance. Part of their symptoms – they are always hungry, depressed. You can’t expect such hungry individual to happily move on raw veggies. Whole grains and yams contain too much carbs for somebody insulin resistant(IR). It order to get their protein requirement from beans they will have to consume too much carbs.I myself solved IR development problem with Low-carb diet. No hunger, perfect blood tests,perfect blood pressure, perfect mental state, almost 30 lb weight loss for last 3,5 years.

  42. Debra Burke says:

    When discussion of EPA and DHA came up, only fish and fish oils were mentioned as best sources. Aren’t chlorella, spirulina, and other algae (the fish’s food) also sources of these?
    Debra

  43. zia says:

    Diversity and tolerance….Is that not what makes this beautiful blue planet truly amazing? Open heart- open mind …Hey everybody, do what feels right for your body and share your love. I think perhaps all we can hope for is an increased understanding of the subtly complex nature of the genius of Life. Life is a mystery – when one thing is “scientifically proven” it is debunked decades later or less..Are there really any answers?? Or maybe only questions? Science is not 100% – Is anything??..Interesting reads= Your Body Is Your Subconscious Mind by Candace Pert – also by Candace- Molecules Of Emotion. And another wonderful read by Bruce Lipton = The Wisdom Of Your Cells: How your beliefs control your biology. I love all the sharing. All fascinating ! Cheers.

  44. LOVE LOVE LOVE the debate! I think that when you get people together that are passionate about their beliefs, you are going to get some questioning and disagreements…it is called a debate after all.

    Oh to live a life without stress…wouldn’t that be nice!

    I also found the information about meat studies interesting along with the China Study and how it is a conclusion of the real study. I also liked how Jonny stated that you can be a meat eater and still care for the animals. I appreciated his view on that as I share it with him but am making slow changes to remove it all together. One step at a time.

    I know that there are meat allowing healing centers (as I am one of the people that gave you reference to them) but I would have to agree with Donna Gates that if I was to get a disease I would go to somewhere like Gerson Institute.

  45. Tanya says:

    I am keeping an open mind and even though I’ve been studying nutrition and wellness for nearly two decades, I am learning still SO MUCH from these lectures!! SO much! Thank you!!!

    It seems that some people are still struggling to be open to new or personally contradictory information. I want to encourage those individuals to keep trying! You have a chance to GROW MORE but you have to let down your vehemence! <3

  46. Mary says:

    First off, ditto Kevin and Anne Marie for all your hard work and this incredible week! I have enjoyed it so much.

    I was glad someone answered what you had said about the unsustainability of animals for food. Most of the crops do go to feed these tortured souls! I don’t know why people don’t come right out and say it. Wouldn’t we want somebody to if we were imprisoned?

    That being said, I think that I cannot judge what someone else needs to eat. And the common thread of all these health experts is whole, organic and non processed foods. That right there adds up to alot of compassion! One step at a time……..

    About last night. I had never heard of Robert O. Young but that dude blew me out of the water!!!! I loved it, even if I don’t agree on everything, it helped me so much. My body craves greens and a good salt (Celtic) more than anything, though I tend to love the sweets, fruit or otherwise. So his theories are just fascinating. It hit me like something out of the blue and for that alone made this whole week worth it.

    Keep up the good work!

  47. Pat says:

    Thank you Kev so much for putting this together for us. I have learned so much and have so many more questions. I did the Dr Mercola’s test, but am not sure about how to put it to use. It is lacking a obvious logic. Maybe I need to study it more.

  48. Emilie Unkrich says:

    I have lots of interests and get lots of invitations to participate in on-line learning. I could not get to them all and still live an active “real time” life!

    I will tell you though that I am grateful to have been guided by my intuition to show up and listen to these broadcasts every night.

    Thank you, Kevin, for the opportunity that you have provided for me/us, via this forum, to hear differing points of view.

    Having enjoyed listening to everyone so far, I am looking forward to hearing from David Wolfe and Daniel Vitalis, tonight.

  49. Beccy Ivins says:

    I have found these health talks extremely interesting. However, when there is such a wide spectrum of opinions about health it makes it difficult to know what to follow. I think the safest diet to follow is the one that God provided for Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden (see Genesis 1:29). That is, nuts, fruits, seeds and later vegetables. By the way, I am a Seventh-day Adventist and I want to just make a small correction about a statement that was made about us regarding the reason we are vegetarian. I like to think that I am a vegetarian both for health reasons as well as religious reasons. The way we take care of our bodies does affect us spiritually because what we take into our bodies is going to affect our minds and ultimately our connection with God.

  50. Sharon says:

    Donna: Oxalates are broken down with the use of probiotics (or fermented foods). GREAT! She has also said that the probiotics will also break down other toxins, even chemicals in GM foods (not in this call but in the past). Therefore I think this is a crucial thing we should do. If we eat the fermented foods we can eat almost anything else in addition. Eating sour foods will cut sweet cravings too. Win-win.

    Robert: consumes loads of oxalate filled food but is against fermented food.

    Me: I get body pain when I eat lots of raw greens daily. Not everyone can tolerate so many oxalates. Some people get eczema or candida from a vegan diet high in greens.

    Environmentally speaking: I don’t think eating 18 avocados and drinking a few liters of juice every day is very ecologically sound unless you have that stuff in your backyard. Fermenting some local veggies makes more sense from this standpoint.

    Blood testing: is it REALLY a bad thing to not have perfectly round blood cells? Is this a scientific fact or speculation? As long as the blood isn’t all clumped or stacked(which could be from EMF’s, not just from food or disease), is the individual shape really important?

    I’m not convinced that fruit is bad. I don’t think I will EVER believe this. What is the fruit there for if not for people to eat? Apples have been used for bowel cleansing for centuries. I’m not suggesting that fruitarianism is good. I don’t think so. They are too skinny and rarely look healthy and vibrant.

    Every fruit has it’s season which means we should eat it in season, not all year long imported from different countries. But then perhaps we should eat the fermented foods and possibly some animal foods in the winter.

    My stool isn’t green but neither is it unhealthy looking or smelly. My food digests well since I either eat sauerkraut or use probiotics daily.

    I would think that green stool a sign that the body isn’t absorbing all that green stuff. Why is it being discarded? This really didn’t make sense to me either. I feel like there’s a lot of unanswered questions regarding Robert’s protocol but since he gets results I’m not going to argue with him!

  51. Sue says:

    Sharon, the red blood cells have a distinct shape and there are conditions like sickle cell anaemia where the shape is different.
    I don’t think its the extent of what Young is talking about.

    Example:
    “Normal red blood cells are disc-shaped and look like doughnuts without holes in the center. They move easily through your blood vessels. Red blood cells contain hemoglobin (HEE-muh-glow-bin), an iron-rich protein that gives blood its red color. Hemoglobin carries oxygen from the lungs to the rest of the body.

    Sickle cells contain abnormal hemoglobin that causes the cells to have a sickle, or crescent, shape. These cells don’t move easily through your blood vessels. They’re stiff and sticky and tend to form clumps and get stuck in the blood vessels.”
    http://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/health/dci/Diseases/Sca/SCA_WhatIs.html

  52. Pat says:

    Lu Weiss – I also did not get the email link – or so I thought. Found it in my spam mail. Check that out. Gave me a late start but it’s working for me now and the program is great.
    Wondering about Robert O. Young’s list of athletes that do well on his diet. Notice he did not list any real endurance sports – like Iron man Marathon. Wonder if the muscles of a person on his diet would still be able to contract after hours of swimming, biking, running??

  53. Terry says:

    Pat- As to athletes who follow Dr. Young’s diet, please check out ultra marathon runner Stu Mittleman, and/or read his book, “Slow Burn”. 😀

  54. Sue says:

    Does Stu Mittleman eat fish?

  55. oreganol says:

    I think it’s true that most people need to eat more fruit and vegetables. Meat seems to be bad for humans in the quantities now being eaten in the western world. That doesn’t necessarily mean that small quantities are bad for you. The human body is able to detox small amounts of toxins – that’s what it is designed to do. The problem seems to be that many/most people overdo things. 5 beers a night would be bad for you, but that doesn’t mean that beer in any quantity is bad. I’m sure you could still live to be 100 if you ate healthily and had one beer a week.

    It’s not about being perfect. It’s a balance between doing the best you can while at the same time enjoying life. There is no point trying to follow a perfect diet if it makes you miserable.

  56. Liz Richardson says:

    Sorry, I’m unable to find your critical analysis for Night 3. It says it is this link, but this critical analysis is for Night 2. Please advise

    Thanks,

    Liz

  57. zia says:

    Interesting – Enjoyed Donna Gates and Young. People might want to look at the book- The Genius Within: Discovering The Intelligence of Every Living Thing by Frank T. Vertosick… and the secret life of plants by–? google it.The first book I mentioned will blow your socks off!!!!Perhaps plants are tortured also. We have to kill something to feed ourselves—-like every living thing. We can do it respectfully and with honor and gratitude…but there is no way around it – this is life-the cycle- death-life. It seems westerners have become disconnected to this cycle-scared even- of death. And westerners have this righteous attitude that we are the morally superior living creatures than anything else…If you read the first book I mentioned it might provide greater perspective to the WHOLE picture and how it all works together. This planet – I believe- has an intelligence-far beyond us – it has been here far longer than we can imagine. We can learn from everything, if we choose. And – connect to things far beyond the human predicament-and human dogmas.

  58. Thaleia says:

    Hi Kevin.
    I am loving the interviews and I think the one-after-the-other format allows the experts to expand on their points much more than the debate format. The first two guests were being far too polite to each other during the debate part of the interview to really expand on their points.
    That said, I really wish you would ask the vegan advocates about some of the issues the meat advocates raised, and vice versa. It would have been great to hear what Dr Fuhrman thought about carnotine and carnosine, for example. I would definitely like to hear from Colin Campbell about his experiments with casein and why he extrapolates from them that all animal protein should be avoided – particularly given the piece about casein 1 and 2 raised by Donna Gates. And, it would have been nice to hear from some of the “evolutionary food” guys about how long hunter-gatherers actually live/d. Two of the interview subjects here have said Inuits lived healthily on high-animal diets and I have not seen any studies anywhere that show inuits living into their eighties in any kind of numbers. It’s all so interesting though. Thanks for puting it all together. T

  59. BarbaraL says:

    As a lifelong seeker of health and consciousness, and foodie, I have been vegan/veg/vegan/veg for 30+ years. After listening to Daniel Vitalis, I was totally exasperated at how brilliant, sincere, convincing and articulate he was about something there was no way I could believe or embrace or make room for in my lifestyle. The same with David Wolfe, whom I love, but become breathless and overwhelmed at his lecturing, from all those supplements and the latest miracle food presented in what feels like nothing less than hyperbole.
    That’s when it hit me again, what you conceive, you believe. And what you believe outpictures as your reality. Therefore ANY theory focussed on and believed will produce results, and it doesn’t mean anything more than you focussed on it and believed it and brought it about! That’s the message I am getting from all these precious speakers.

    A while back I was musing over a quote by Abraham (channeled by Esther Hicks, interviewed on the first edition of the movie “The Secret”) about getting fat from eating Krispy Kreme donuts. Abe (who is a collection of 100 entities) said its fattening because you believe it to be so.

    In another quote about illness, he said, “If you don’t feel good, its because you’re not thinking in a way that allows the Energy to flow …. Stop looking for anything other than your mental and emotional state of being as answers … It is all Vibrational … no exception! ….. diagnosis doesn’t matter – it’s temporary.

    I believe some day when we get tired of analyzing Life long enough, we will master the art of creating it how we want it to be by intention, attention and lack of tension. These wonderful speakers each in their own right are right! (That is right for them and whoever wishes to subscribe .. it will work). What I have determined is that what feels aesthetically pleasing and rings true for me, I choose it, not because of anyone else’s dogma or scientific proof but out of my inner prompting. (not craving) That has made a peaceful difference for me that doesn’t need corroboration by the opinion of others, even though they are smarter and more educated academically,more and more I have learned to listen to my body and observe. Sorry so long.

  60. zia says:

    Barbara L. brilliantly said!! Yes!

  61. Mary Dicerni says:

    I absolutely loved these debates, and will be trying the super foods. I was thinking about the kenyan massai natives, and they drink the raw milk and raw blood from their cows. How different is this from raw milk and raw liver ? I am not sure if the massai do eat the meat when cows get old, or for a celebration ? What type of liver are we talking about physically and practically ? I must review the notes I made. I am not yet sure, but I was raised, unknowingly by farmer’s raw milk and cream for berries. i just remembered that. I have also enjoyed raw mutton with spices, celery and raw onions, with lebanese people, and I miss it. Thank you again, Kevin. A superb effort, and much appreciation for the endless nights you must have spent preparing it all.

  62. Mary Dicerni says:

    I believe I heard that the sickle cell anemia, can prevent infections of the parasite for Malaria in the blood.. there may have been a reason God created the sickle cell. I wonder if they might use the info for making an antibody etc.. for malaria with this design in mind..

  63. Beth says:

    I’m a Seventh-day Adventist and adhere to a strict vegetarian lifestyle, which is strictly plant based. I do not consume dairy products, eggs, etc. Most SDA’s are indeed lacto-ovo vegetarian, and while some even eat fish, none of the centenarians I know from Loma Linda do.

    Also it is important to note that dairy and animal products have become increasingly diseased. This would not have been as significant a problem when these Centenarians were younger and perhaps ate small amounts of such foods.

    Thanks for the debates!

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