Thoughts on the Raw Food Diet, Vegan Diet, Eating Meat and More : The Renegade Health Show Episode #654

Friday Sep 10 | BY |
| Comments (99)

There has been a ton of discussion over this last week’s interview…

In today’s show, I speak about the raw food diet, why Susan Schenck was the one who we interviewed, and more.

I also talk about eating meat as well as spirituality for raw foodists and more.

Take a look…

Your question of the day: What are your thoughts on all this? Am I right? Wrong? Let us know!

Click here, scroll down to the bottom of the page and leave your comments now!

Live Awesome!

Kevin Gianni

Kevin Gianni is a health author, activist and blogger. He started seriously researching personal and preventative natural health therapies in 2002 when he was struck with the reality that cancer ran deep in his family and if he didn’t change the way he was living — he might go down that same path. Since then, he’s written and edited 6 books on the subject of natural health, diet and fitness. During this time, he’s constantly been humbled by what experts claim they know and what actually is true. This has led him to experiment with many diets and protocols — including vegan, raw food, fasting, medical treatments and more — to find out what is myth and what really works in the real world.

Kevin has also traveled around the world searching for the best protocols, foods, medicines and clinics around and bringing them to the readers of his blog — which is one of the most widely read natural health blogs in the world with hundreds of thousands of visitors a month from over 150 countries around the world.


Comments are closed for this post.

  1. Raw food doesn’t make you spiritual any more than wearing Nikes makes you a runner—you still have to do the work.

  2. Lynn says:

    Thanks for sharing Kevin…I so much more appreciate an open questioning mind that a die hard staunch stance. I too have seen the issues you talk about with strict (or so they claim to be) raw foodists.

  3. Deanna Dean says:

    Whew! Lots of differing opinions out there, but we can always count on you, Kevin, for your honesty and generous spirit in sharing what you know and bringing us into a healthy and respectful discussion.
    Keep up the good (and hard) work.

  4. Oliver Fóli says:

    im not sure what to believe anymore O.o i know that CURRENTLY i’m thriving on a partially raw, whole foods, vegan diet with supplements. i feel a bit lost though

  5. Patricia says:

    Keven, Thank you for all the work you do. You are much appreciated. I think one should know all they can about their body, God, earth, etc.. It is up to each of us to take responsibility for our condition.
    I appreciate people like yourself and Dr.Esselstyn, “Prevent and Reverse Heart Disease”, Dr. McDougall, Dr. Campbell, “The China Study”, John Robbins, Dr. Dean Ornish.
    and too many more to list.
    These men have years and years of experience, knowledge, studies, and testing to back up their talks, books, etc. I listen to people who know by these means. And thank you for the blood testing information you have provided. I bought the tapes and I am studying them now. (and geting blood work done) Keep up the good work.
    Do what you know is right for you. Find out what you don’t know. Trust in yourself!

  6. Sheree says:

    I really feel that each of us has to seek out what works best for each of us. I am a Christian and a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. In the Book of Mormon we have been given the word of wisdom, which tells us what we can and cant eat or drink and why. Myself I have been a 99% vegan for just shy of 4 years. Our word of wisdom states that every herb and fruit in season, and all grains are for our use. I like the way the Lord knew to tell us to eat that which is in season. This not only gives us the most nutritional value it helps the earth and farmers. The word of wisdom also states that the flesh of beasts and fowls are ordained for our use, but it is to be used sparingly in times of winter or cold or famine. With that the Lord is telling us what is best for our bodies, when and how much. I am sure that if the time came that there was nothing for me to eat due to crop failures, food storage used up, whatever the case maybe I might have to eat meat at some point. but for me knowing that I am doing the best for my body will help me keep my health and happiness, which in my opinion brings me to the belief that one can draw closer to your God whatever your belief. Being at peace with yourself and your life draw you closer to a more spiritual experience with your own beliefs.

  7. Janet says:

    Spirituality is not what you eat. It is who and what you are, the truth of who and what you are. Your entire life is a spiritual experience whether you eat meat or not.

  8. Amen, Roger! Beautifully put! I began my vegetarian journey at 17, raised my kid vegetarian, then we converted to veganism when she was 9, and about a year later, we transitioned to a raw vegan diet. She’s 13 now and, as of this past February, we’ve changed to a predominantly (about 95%) locavore diet that includes meat, dairy, eggs, fruits, and veggies. After years of searching, we think we’ve finally locked onto a good answer… FOR US.

    I agree, Kevin, you’ve got to find your own path. When I was doing the raw vegan thing, I got an amazing detox: lost 50 pounds, restored nerve damage from an old injury, got rid of my arthritis, got rid of my allergies… to name a few. It was amazing. And the diet we’re now on is maintaining all that beautiful health I gained.

    If anyone’s interested, my family’s documented our food journey on our podcast, Sweet Peas Podcast. (Kevin and Annmarie, we’ve been trying to get you on!) Here’s the link:

    Take good care… and keep your hearts and minds open!

    Thanks, Kevin!

    Lisa Marie Lindenschmidt
    Rite Food and Company
    (producing a line of raw chocolates now…!)

  9. Lilly says:

    I was veg*n for 10 years. I then got pregnant with my daughter. We had a vegetarian pregnancies so I ate milk, eggs and butter. She seemed healthy when she was born but very colicky and cranky. I could not figure out what was wrong with her. She was like that for 2years. She then got cavities even though we hardly ever ate sugar. Her sweets were mainly fruits. She was also diagnosed with failure to thrive. I read Nourishing Traditions. It hit home and we started eating organic meat.

    I have this discussion with my veg*n friends often. Children should not be on restricted diets. They should eat meat, eggs, raw milk, veggies, fruit and whole grains.

    My veggie friends are raising veggie children that are failure to thrive. I see it because I went through it. People used to comment to me on my daughters pale skin, how cranky she was, her teeth, and how small she was. Now I tell my friends their kids are failure to thrive but they ignore my comments. They just can’t see it through the rose coloured veggie glasses.


    I consider it child abuse.

  10. Tee says:

    I have watched every single Renegade Health show you’ve done since day one. I tuned in to every Raw Summit broadcast you did prior to starting the show. I’ve been slowly losing my memory for a while and thought my raw food diet might be the issue, so I started trying cooked quinoa, etc.–more like Brendan Brazier’s Thrive Diet. My memory has not improved after months and I’ve been trying everything supplement-wise possible. The one thing I haven’t done is tried meat/eggs/dairy because I feared–which now seems crazy to me, but it was legit fear–that I would screw my mind up even more if I did. Great show–probably the best ever. I’m just hoping the damage I’ve done is not irreversible.

  11. Ramona says:

    Thank you for being so frank and truthful in your sharing of the information and your thoughts. Over the last few years of my 10 years as ‘raw’ I too have eaten things not considered 100% raw. I agree with you that our efforts and thoughts should be about optimum health for each of us individually and not about a dogmatic belief system.

    In my case, it was my spiritual path that lead me to become vegetarian, then vegan and then eventually raw. I have been with many different spiritual groups over the years and I have great respect for all of them, but I have found only one or two others in all of these groups who were ‘raw’.

    My own guidance has lead me to those teachers that help me to better understand the aspects of not only my physical body but my other bodies as well,spiritual, emotional, intellectual and etheric just to name a few. Energy is subtle and working with it requires balance. We must learn to address the needs of ALL of our bodies in order to become balanced. Our life path/journey is a process so unique for each of us, but it is a wonderful process that is enhanced by the sharing of our experiences with each other. These shared experiences help us to realize that we are not alone and that the bottom line is that we get to choose for ourselves whatever we wish to become in our lives.

    Thank you again for the work that you do and the way you share it with others.

  12. Diana (Ohio) says:

    Great week Kevin, you have gotten a lot of people to look at issues and to think.

    I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, CHANGE IS A PART OF LIFE. I’m not the same person I was 20 years ago, and I will not be the same 20 years from now, and yes, some people are saying Thank God 🙂

    I see all of the quick, drastic changes in everyones dietary thinking taking place right now as just reactions to the world around us.

    The world economy and powers, weather, technology, theology,beliefs, customs, even huge areas of landscape have changed remarkably just in the past 5 years.The whole environment has change, and I’m not just talking weather. Maybe it’s the 2012 thing or maybe we are just wrapping up a normal cycle, but it is pretty obvious that we are in a time of many changes on many different levels.

    As a result, wouldn’t it make sense that our bodies will require different things to deal with a different environment? This isn’t your mommas world anymore. Isn’t there a saying, something about when a butterfly flaps its wings, it can be felt around the world?

    Yes, things are changing,lets ride high on the new wave coming through. There will be some spills and falls, there will be times to pick ourselves and others up, but when we learn how to ride that wave, there will be that indescribable feeling of success and victory.

    Thank You again Kevin for such a thought provoking week.

  13. Angela says:

    Thank you Kevin for your honesty and realistic point of view. Our health is what matters more so than an idealistic mindset. I do appreciate Susans honesty (i don’t think i would buy her book tho), and some of her info she shared was practical for me. I think when on a raw diet, exercise is vital-important for everyone-but if on raw, exercise keeps bones and muscles strong. I know for myself when I exercise-cardio and some weights-my healing time is very minimal than when i have been less than 50% raw. So protein is not the issue for me. Thanks Kevin for all your hard work.

  14. Walt says:

    I encourage the reading of an excellent book entitled “Electrical Nutrition” by Denie Hiestand. If you go to you can see a link to be able to read pages from that book as well as another of his books. Both books are definitely good food for thought and consideration.

  15. Dianne says:

    From MY experiences over the past year and a half of taking charge of my health, the 100% raw food diet was an EXCELLENT way to heal and cleanse my body. HUGE. I’m very pleased that I found raw foods/raw foodists to help me during that time.

    HOWEVER, same as you Kevin, my blood tests were showing that I was lacking, so again, I had to go down another path, again with the curiousity/open-mindedness that I had when I went 100% raw.

    The bottom line is that it’s not all about the food. Or about the exercise. Or the spirituality. It’s about the WHOLE being -it’s about FEELING GOOD.

    Which is why I LOVE your show 🙂 and keep coming back. You two just glow with health and happiness – and feeling good is what I get here.


  16. Darlene says:

    Thank you Kevin for being honest and open and willing to share other viewpoints with us.

    I believe one should be open minded and accepting when it comes to diet. It’s not one size fits all. I follow Paleo because I find that’s what’s right for my body. I have learned to listen to my body enough to know I need animal protein or I don’t feel satiated. Having said that, I also eat tons of vegetables, very little fruit and nuts.

    I follow Dr. Mercola’s nutritional typing diet for the most part. He is strongly against eating any grain since it turns to sugar quickly in your bloodstream and is high in lectins.

    I use dairy but only full fat dairy since it has the lowest amount of harmful casein and also the lowest amount of lactose (sugar) so I will not get a reaction from drinking it.

  17. Cindy says:

    I have been a vegetarian for 15 years and a vegan for 5 years. For the past year and a half, I have been a raw vegan. For the past 8 months, I have followed Doug Graham’s 80/10/10 diet because the high fat content of the raw diet slowed me down. I am an endurance runner which is why I am seeking optimal energy. Dr. Graham’s diet worked wonderfully until about a month ago when I just didn’t feel satiated even when eating mono fruit meals with a huge veggie salad daily. I felt bloated and still hungry. My workouts slowed and my teeth began to become sensitive. The dentist told me I have tooth erosion from the fruit acids. I even had been brushing my teeth faithfully after meals. I began to follow Brendan Brazier’s vegan diet plan for athletes. I am regaining my strength and endurance each day. I have read just about everything out there on raw food, but as an athlete, Brendan’s plan, so far, works the best for me. I have read all the raw food books I care to read since they repeat themselves over and over. Diet is all about trial and error. I still love animals and do not intend to eat them, but if my health would begin to suffer, I would certainly consider trying organic chiken or wild salmon in order to save my health.

  18. Veronika says:

    I appreciate the discussion that’s been created by posting Susan’s videos, and I also appreciate everyone’s honesty.

    My main concern is that some of the “facts” that Susan presented were misleading, and should receive counter-argument from some good nutritionists with long term experience in raw vegan food (like Rick & Karin Dina).

  19. Diana (Ohio) says:

    One last thought, as our bodies change and adapt to the world around us, we need to listen to it and feed it what it needs, just like we dress according to the weather, but we need to be really in tune to hear what it needs and not just what it wants – big difference.

  20. Blair says:

    I honestly think that everyone is different and some people really don’t function well without meat in their diet.

    and i agree with you…if you are in the wild with no grocery stores, foods being shipped from all over, cars to drive everywhere and so on…i don’t think it would be possible to survive on just the vegetables and fruits that you procured and you would need meat to fulfill your protein needs.

    saying that, we are in a world where we can have all of these great vegetables and fruits at our fingertips as well as super foods like spirulina that provide us with a vast array of nutrients that we wouldn’t normally get

    SO does that mean that we may be able to sustain a vegan lifestyle better now since we have all of these options, or is there still a need for meat?

    I think it all depends on your body and what you feel is right. Ecologically it may be better to rely a little less on super foods and add animal products, to an extent back into your diet. I don’t think I could eat anything other than eggs or fish, but I do agree that humans are meant to consume some animal proteins, just in much smaller amounts and less frequently. I would also rather see people turning to eggs than cheeses and dairy for supplementation for different reasons.

    thanks for being so open to all ideas and being very good at looking at different view points. I find that I agree with you on so many levels and it is difficult to find that in the health world and with those around us.

  21. Right or wrong? Who really knows?

    I think, though, that all this jumping from one bandwagon and/or guru to another eventually ends up looking silly. We do know for sure that a whole food, plant based diet is excellent. We also know that all those “blue zone” and “healthy to 100” societies ate very little meat or animal products .. because they;’re so inefficient to produce. It takes about 20 times the resources to produce animal based foods than plant based (whether it’s factory farmed or the best organic, free range, etc.) … so, for me, the right thing to do for my health, my spirit and my planet is pretty clear … and that’s vegan, with a lot of it being raw.

  22. Patty says:

    I decided to go vegan in 1982 and raw in 1989. However we choose to eat, what we are looking for in our diet to keep our body healthy and balanced is minerals. I feel the strongest eating mostly greens and wild plants. I like to know what I am eating is from the top of the food chain where the minerals are most abundant and the life force is the strongest.

  23. I believe living (and eating) consciously and humbly, regardless of the uniquely, right diet for you is what is important. I am so thankful to hear all of this because all I could think of was I was doing something wrong. Such freedom to listen to my body and find my own unique path while 100% honoring and appreciating others, as well as the abundance of information I am receiving. Thank you so much.

  24. Jan says:

    My thought on all of this is simply I do not know.
    Although I am glad people seem to be more respectful today with what they are writing.

    Life is to short, to be short with people.

    Thanks for the information I enjoy the shows.

  25. Angie Leigh says:

    You Are Right! :p
    I am so glad that we are discussing this issue openly, because it allows us to be aware of the different perspectives. As I have said many times before, I believe if your body needs something it will show you in one way or another, and if that something it needs is the key…then I say use it as needed. There is no shame in not adheering to a 100% raw food vegan diet, especially when it is causing you harm or hardship. I feel great, and I do my best to follow a 100% raw food diet, but I do not ever Ignore my body’s needs. Isn’t the goal here to be in excellent health? Then eat raw foods primarily and then eat all the foods placeed on this earth by nature, as needed. Eat it when u need it…You will know!
    Angie Leigh

  26. POST-RAW/VEGAN. After 6 years of dedicated Raw/Vegan dietetics, Katrina and I (David Rainoshek, MA) are POST-RAW VEGAN, and will put this shift in our diet into an Evolutionary perspective in an upcoming announcement and paper on this topic.

    But let me be clear: What we are looking at is not a flatland of dietary choices, but a developmental, evolutionary hierarchy…

    We will place this developmental scheme in the light of the world’s great religious traditions, human development (including physical, cultural, social, mental, and spiritual.

    So watch for it. We will publish it over

    KEVIN and ANNMARIE- I deeply appreciate you. Thank you for keeping yourself in the pulse of the Raw/Vegan movement. You are a shining example of steadfast dedication to a rational, multidimensional perspective on nutrition and health, incorporating the best of infinite perspectives.

    With peaceful steps,

    David Rainoshek, MA [POST-RAW/VEGAN, but MA in Vegan/Live Food Nutrition
    Former Research Assistant to Dr. Gabriel Cousens, MD including the book There is A Cure for Diabetes

  27. Joe says:

    The ancestors you ‘imagine’ in the canyon came there after the invention of the human fire.

    Being spiritual is to be god (nature), out of any human invention.

    Love you … all!


  28. Agnieszka says:

    I think that the healthiest way to live is to eat vegan diet but not raw I am almost against it with some small exceptions to boost ourselves and provide some missing elements for example B12 . So vegan diet i would suggest macrobiotic approach is the best for me and add some animal protein some organic eggs from ur grandma and some small fishes once in a month and u will be super healthy I think.

    What she said – She put too much animal protein , that is not needed . Once in a month ok but not everyday !!!

  29. Amy Davidson says:

    I’m not much for “labels” and I don’t think that we should be defined by what we eat. I have no problem with anyone who adheres to a particular diet either. When it becomes something that you judge others for and also something that others are judging you for, that’s what isn’t right. All these judgements that are passed on others, it’s such a waste of time. We all need to focus on ourselves, and not care what others think. And those that are doing the judging, need to focus on making their own lives better instead.

    Thank you Kevin and Annmarie for everything that you do!

  30. Cally says:

    Kevin, you have no idea how important the timing is for all this in my life. After 17 years of vegetarianism and several forays into veganism and raw veganism, I have concluded that, for me, eating some animal products is necessary for me to be healthy. I hate that, but that’s what it seems to be for me. I can’t see myself ever eating animal flesh… but eating cultured dairy products is almost essential for me. My doctor recommended Weston A Price – style eating. I’m certainly not going to consume flesh… but the dairy and fermented vegetables and grains seem to give me something that I was lacking before.

    THANK YOU for talking about this. It makes the guilt ease up a little.

    As for spirituality… personally, I don’t look to food for any kind of spiritual development. I’m an Orthodox Christian- we eat a vegan diet probably 60% of the year because we fast from meat/fish/eggs/dairy every Wednesday and Friday and then during certain periods throughout the year. Through this discipline, we gain control of our bodies and are able to devote more time to prayer and helping the poor. That’s the idea anyway. I’m finding great peace in this rhythm. Its almost like I get the best of both worlds…

  31. Mary Artemis says:

    I would like you guys, especially Susan, to contact Loren Lockman of Tanglewood Health Center in Panama. As well as being mainly fruitarian for VERY many years, I think he seems to be loaded with more knowledge about the body than I’ve heard here. He’s also very healthy looking and I haven’t seen his teeth fall out yet. Please contact and interview him.
    Mary from Stamford.

  32. Michelle says:

    I’m with Roger! Many Tibetan masters live on potatoes and yak butter…yak meat, etc…they are some of the most spiritual people I have met. You really have to do the work. I’ve been vegetarian for 21 years. Ranging from macrobiotic, to 100% raw for 3 years, to cooked vegan, to some local eggs and dairy…it’s just food! Do to what works for you, don’t judge others, and be honest with yourself and what your body wants. If you listen it will tell you…as will your blood tests! ; )
    For every study done, there will be a counter-study. Nutrition is tricky stuff, and I have come to believe that it is very individualized. Humans are complex creatures!

  33. Mary Artemis says:

    I am also an orthodox Christian, however, being more “vegan” than the Wednesday & Friday fasting, I am healthier than my Orthodox counterparts!! I do eat eggs from the hen (not the store) however, I believe we were NOT created to eat meat, or else, our teeth wouldn’t look like this!! Right??? I really think this factual accounting is not factual, but wrong. We have teeth like vegetarians! (with the occasional beef taco) Weakness of the flesh.

  34. In this information age, there is sometimes just an overwhelming amount of information to process and that makes it difficult to know what to believe or who to follow. It is confusing, to say the least, to wade through the conflicting gospels of dietary guidelines for “optimal” health.

    I believe that healthy/humane food sources (plant or animal) will provide us with the best source of health. Whenever we choose the most pure, fresh and organic foods, we are doing our bodies a favor. I personally find it unethical to eat animal products, but do not condemn those who do. I believe that if one is spiritually evolved, their diet will be also. That can mean different things to different people. Overall, though, the most important things to keep in mind are doing no harm to our planet, to others or ourselves. “Health” transcends many levels.

  35. Ineke says:


    Again thanks for bringing all this information out. I recently have been visiting a lot Donna Gates’ website and listening to her version and it makes a lot of sense if not more sense then all the raw food theories that are out there. Don’t get me wrong. Eating raw is great but like every other diet out there..if you do not do it right, you can get yourself into big trouble. Personally I never believed in hardcore raw foodism or macrobiotics or anything. What I notice a lot is that in North America diets can become very extreme. Food is not only about nutrients, it is also about savoring, sharing a meal together without having “hangups” of what you can or cannot eat and just enjoying oneself. (with a glas of wine if you want) I find the raw food diet when followed strictly socially a “hassle”. I see it all the time with my husband who is following it for medical reasons. I support him totally but I’m glad he has “mellowed down” a bit about it. It is impossible to follow the Hippocrates diet if you would make a trip lets say to…Japan or China This diet however is great for cleansing, detoxing and if you suffer from typical Western diseases. I always would recommend someone to give it a go.

    It is interesting that the question of meat is brought up. I happened to visit John Robbin’s website last night and he has posted an article of Michael Pollan on his blog which I thought made a lot of sense. I still think that in North America people eat way too much meat. This way of eating is unsustainable. Even when the animals are fed a so called organic grain diet it is not an optimum choice for us to eat this meat because this type of diet in not what they are supposed to have. The animals suffer from indigestion and flatulence. Consequently this type of meat is not of superior quality. If you choose to eat meat, I think it is better to eat grass fed. Look at tribes or other cultures. As far as I’m concerned they do eat a little bit of animal protein but mostly their diet is still plant based and they hunt.

  36. Sherry Smith says:

    right now I’m getting back to raw.

    I feel better when I eat raw.when I eat meat and processed foods I feel tired
    and I ache all over when I wake up in the morning. When I ate raw and ate maca and goji berries and took B12 and fish oil when I woke up in the morning I felt great. I felt more aware spiritually. It is also easier to meditate.

    I am now adding one organic raw egg to one of my smoothies in the morning. So in a way I’m going beyond raw. I have not been able to do use Riki mushrooms or some other longevity herbs I want to use.

    On spirituality, I don’t know. I’ve been studying a lot of things. Christianity is totally out. I do believe in the law of attraction.I’ve read a lot of William Walker Atkinson’s books and and a few other authors books regarding the law of attraction.
    It seemed in interested in things and then dropped out after six months. I also do this with EFT. Which only works on me if I eat really well for a long amount of time.

  37. Deborah says:

    thank you for this week. I have always pondered ‘extremism’ in anything. When I first studied Ann Wigmore back in the 70’s and then created a sprout business, I never felt that I had to become 100% raw, but, because I was NOT 100%, I stayed quietly in the background and observed this new diet craze. Personally, I have been exploring my own food choices since 1972, and became a vegan when I had my organic market, sprout business & raw kitchen. But, I still ate some cooked grains, sweet potatoes, etc. even when I had the market. I wanted those warm comforting foods.
    Today, I grow sprouts every week in my kitchen. And for the most part I am vegan. But, I no longer freak about an egg in something, etc. Food can become a sort of religion if one is not mindful. I would much rather be happy and enjoy my journey…

  38. Chris says:

    To put this all to rest for me.. I think Susan should never have written a book without having long-term experience to back up what she was writing. Even as a 26 year vegan and 6 years raw I would not say I’m qualified to write a book.. but I am qualified to be a HEALTHY Raw VEGAN – – something she was NOT able to accomplish. She has NO credibility as far as I’m concerned….and she is not congruent.

    Spirituality for Native Americans and the Quero people is a cultural thing and how lucky they are for that. We are all spiritual at birth and our lives takes us in directions that don’t necessarily help us to manifest that. Very little in our Western society helps us to be spiritual – – so we have to seek it out ourselves. Whatever path we take.. and however we arrive there matters only to each of us.. and every little bit of it, no matter how small, is important.

    I do appreciate your insight and what you share.. You are fair and offer all sides of a situation. Personally however, I would prefer you no longer offer anything of Susan.. but that’s my thinking.. no one else.

  39. Chris says:

    pardon but what does post raw vegan mean?

    Is everyone who claims to be vegan and raw being totally dishonest?? seems like it..

    How sad for the animals.. and how especially sad for humanity. .

  40. Jewels says:

    You show is awsome. I look forward to it. You are open minded and thats key for me. Live happy and healthy, and your living a good life. When are you going to be in the Denver area?

  41. PAFaith says:

    Eat food. Not too much. Mostly plants.

    I am amazed that people cling so tightly to “their” ideal diet.
    Nutrition is a very young science. People in different parts of the world thrive on very different diets.
    I think that the food you eat is not so important as making sure what you eat is food; real food.
    We are all individuals, we have different genetic weak links, we assimilate nutrients differently, how can anyone say that any particular diet is the best diet for everyone? One diet may be perfect for one person for healing, or rebuilding or fill in the blank. That can change.
    The main thing is to be aware of your own body. To be aware, I think, we need to keep it clean. Know what you are eating, be aware of how it makes you feel.

    Let’s not judge others or be arrogant about something like diet.
    After all, the most important thing is love!

    Kevin and Annmarie, I love you both. You are a blessing to so many. Thank you.

  42. Fontrella says:

    Hi Kevin,

    I thank you for your thoughts on raw foodist, vegan, vegetarian. To me it does not hurt to have organic meat once in a while.

    I don’t choose my way of eating for spirituality. I am a born again Christian so I don’t eat for that reason, I eat for the nourishment for my body. I have health issues which include diabetes, Rheumatoid Arthritis, and Iron deficiency. I am working on to reverse these symptoms now by working my way to 90% raw foodist.

    I still love watching your videos and love the recipes as well. Keep up the good show. Thanks


  43. Mary says:

    Hi Kevin, I so appreciate your honesty with regard to what you are finding in the raw food movement and especially with regard to some of the raw food leaders. I wish they would be honest about what they eat, because it is extremely difficult for us regular people to maintain a 100% raw food diet, but continue to try because we think there are leaders who are doing it and thriving. It’s sad to hear they AREN’T doing it — just leading us on to think they are, perhaps so they can sell their raw food products and continue to be considered leaders in the field.

    What also saddens me are the people who are commenting on this blog and saying that as humans we must eat animals products, or at least some humans must eat flesh foods and dairy and that children who are fed vegan diets are abusing their children, etc. There is so much quality research out there — I would send everyone to Physicians for Responsible Medicine — that debunks this in extremely professional and scientific ways. I know everyone has a right to their opinion, but I wish they would back them up with the facts and not just with antidotes about their friends, neighbors, etc.

    We are more like the great apes than we are like mice. Look at the cows of the field … none of these massive animals need to eat other animals and neither do we.

    I don’t think it is necessary to eat a 100% raw food diet, but for me, I choose to eat a 100% vegan diet and I’m 61 years old, have healed myself of lupus, work out every day, am of the right weight for my body and age, and never, ever get sick … not even a cold. No way am I going back to eating the way I used to eat.

    Keep doing what you’re doing, Kevin. We need you. But I hope you continue to support veganism.

  44. briannaG says:

    I think there is definitely a process to healthy living. And that process involves several parts, including spirituality & mental/emotional/physical health. Not to mention- social health! It diet is far more complex that many are willing to accept… unless you have a twin, no two people are built the same. Which means, one diet does not fit all.

    That being said, I think that a plant-based diet is the best diet for everyone. Plant-based- not exclusive. I also think that if a person is meant to have meat on occasion, or dairy or something that isn’t plant based, there is a spiritually respectful, and environmentally respectful, way to do this.

    Like Kevin referenced, let food be thy medicine. If we respect what we put in our bodies (respect the process, the life that was given or plant that was eaten), that process in itself is a healing process.

  45. Thanks a lot for stating your view on this Kevin! I kinda already knew what you were going to say though. 🙂
    I’d be very interested to hear Annmaries view on all of this. I rarely hear her touching these topics at all. I only remember her nodding along with you in a previous video.
    Does she fully support what you are saying Kevin or does she have her own take on this?

    I find it interesting that such a large part of the “movement” is shifting all at once. Or at least that’s what it seems like. It’s like there’s a trend in being deficient on the raw vegan diet. 😀
    Or perhaps that’s just an excuse for many to move on to a new “market” since the raw food scene is getting old an saturated. In many ways it’s similar to the superfood trend that started a few years back.

    There’s still a good deal of people that do well on the high raw vegan diet. As far as I can tell. But of course, I’m not with them all day logging what they eat. But you can kinda tell when someone’s been “cheating”.

    I hope the next trend in this movement will be honestly.

  46. Stephan says:

    As always Kevin. Thank You for your work.
    Isn’t the bottom line that we are all seeking a way to take control of our health and make the highest choice?

    This quest requires we be totally honest and dedicated. If anyone has done this in the community it must be Brian Clement and Hippocrates. I would very much like to have Kevin interview him again discussing just what today’s video was about.

    Please, please ask Brian Clement about all this.

    Regarding the spiritual perspective. Many teachers explain that life is an illusion and thus none of this matters. Others say that eating meat or anything is a part of the eternal give away and cycle of life and that some day we are all food for something else; that it is giving thanks for what we take that is the real issue. I for one am most concerned with having as much energy at my disposal as possible which is why the raw diet is of so much interest to me!

  47. john says:

    Kevin the ONLY way you can ascend spiritually,the word of God teaches is by believing in what Jesus did on the cross of Calvary , in His death ,burial and resurrection .What people do not realize it cost God everything He allowed His Only begotten , Holy sinless Son to take on All the sins of man kind. The bible clearly states how to get to heaven . Read John 3:16. For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son that whosoever believes on Him Will Have everlasting LIFE. The ONLY WAY to heaven is thru the Son of God and his Name is— JESUS. Their are many false teachers religious leaders around the world who mix truth with error .Put not your faith in men or any spiritual prophet on this earth ,because All religion is one of the tools the devil uses ,especially IN the church.Jesus is the ONLY answer He and He alone is the ONLY way to heaven any one other than Jesus will in fact guarantee them to HELL .I did not make this law of God God said it and I believe it –WHY—BECAUSE -HE’S— ALMIGHTY GOD and is HOLY and hates sin. The same God that told Adam and Eve the day you eat of that one tree ,you shall surely die,is the same God who will in fact send any one to hell who rejects his Son.Because God is a gentleman He does not force any one to accept him,He gave man kind a FREE WILL OR CHOICE.So what is your choice? Jesus Christ or the images of religions and traditions,MANS ideas.The bible clearly states also their is none righteous NO NOT ONE , this clearly includes all humans.So the next time you see someone acting in a pius humble state such as to use as an example priests and cardinals ,popes remember they as well as All humans are all Filthy sinners ,the word of God clearly teaches this .This IS the TRUTH and Knowing the truth and acting on that truth is the (medicine) only way ,ONLY WAY to go to heaven when one dies.As for eating meat v.s. plants. Back in 1995-1996 is approx. the time line GMO material got spread around US and abroad maybe sooner than that so our plants and soil (demographics) are eroded even further as well as SOIL and mineral levels to further add insult to PERMANENT ENVIRONMENTAL INJURY the US contaminates Air ,water ,soil daily with RADIOLOGICAL DEPLETED URANIUM (nothing depleted about it). See.>>>>>>>> Brasscheck and RENSE.COM

  48. Tamikko says:

    This is one of the reasons we all love you so. I too have seen this ‘trend’ all over the internet and I am glad that people are being more open about it, and finally coming forward. There are so many different views out there and so many people who jump on the ones who make a tiny slip up on what is supposedly perfect 100% raw lifestyle.
    I think this is going to help a lot of newbies out there that don’t think they can be raw unless their perfect like so and so etc.
    Thank you for your direct honesty. It is very much appreciated.

  49. Jasmine says:

    In regards to her comment regarding Price’s research seeking groups of vegetarians at peak health – she said he couldn’t find any. What about that Adventist vegetarian group in Loma Linda, CA? Don’t they have several centarians living among them?

    And thank you for posting these videos. It’s funny how timely your videos are for me. I’ll have a question or health concern and the very next day or soon after, I’ll start finding out information that will help me answer it (often from you renegade health, or sites you recommend).

    Just two days ago I was asking one of my raw foodie friends what the best products are to get b12 and D – then you posted that newsletter soon after recommending the patch.

    thank you for all that you do.

    I just started adding more cooked foods, cooked grains, and eggs for the body ecology diet temporarily. I haven’t eaten this much cooked food in 2 years. I fully intend to get back to a place where I eat a predominantly raw food diet, but until I conquer my candida issues, I will be steaming veggies and cooking grains and poaching eggs.

  50. Jasmine says:

    by the way, this recap video is one of the best episodes you’ve posted in the history of renegade health.

  51. nick says:

    We make things more complicated then they really are. If we tune into our body make a food journal whatever it takes to listen to and feel how your body reacts to the food you eat and then you can obtain optimal health. What most people fail to realize is that this will constantly change; I eat more cooked food when it is cold outside and I also eat more sprouts when it is cold outside because of the lack of wild greens avsilable. In the summer whatever is growing wild and local; I want to learn more about harvesting wild winter plants,tree bark and fungus based foods. Listen to yourself no one knows better what is the right diet for you the YOU!!!

  52. Melina says:

    Hi Kevin,
    Just wanted to let you know that I appreciate your dedication to transparency, inquisitiveness, and being a seeker of the truth. Keep up the good work!

  53. Anne says:

    Hi Kevin,

    I really appreciate your open mind and willingness to share all this with us. I’ve been on the path to health/Wellness forever it seems. Started as a kid when I tried to get my parents to forget to serve me meat as I really didn’t like it nor felt good eating it.

    Hence I became a vegetarian as soon as I could and a Vegan not long after that (because I couldn’t have Dairy or eggs which I’m highly sensitive to). But over the years I realized that I didn’t digest complex carbs well either.

    Anyway, all this to say that I’ve tried a number of things and have been high raw since August last year and raw since March this year. I’ve gone from higher fat/ lower carb raw to the 80-10-10 recently and even though I still am questioning, I feel much better on this diet, digest better, perform better (run/swim/gym) have more energy and sleep better. So although I do worry about depleting my body of minerals I have to think this is working to some extent for me but it’s only been a short time (less than a month) so time will tell.

    Absolutely though, I would do anything for my health so if I came to the conclusion I had to live on meat only, well even if I hate to think about it, I would do it. Well, that’s probably a stretch but what I mean is that like you, I’m searching and want to know as much as I can because we are the guinea pigs for sure but I can’t believe eating good food can be worse than eating big macs everyday. So, you have to trust your body and do your research and testing.
    Thanks for your efforts Kevin

  54. Eve says:

    Thank you, Kevin.

    I was 90% raw for just under a year, and some in the raw community were very judgemental about my other 10%!

    While the best health in my life was during that 90% raw period, my 10% included steak, dairy… whatever. I wonder now if the animal proteins might have allowed the 90% raw to succeed even better in health terms.

    Why I’m no longer 90%? Just too hard to do.

    1.) My friends don’t eat that way, I’m single and do a lot of socializing that involves food. It’s hard to be raw in a non-raw social circle.

    2.) The people I knew in the local “raw community” – only a few were what I’d describe as fully mentally balanced. The others ranged from a bit “off” to fantatical cult member-type people,very dogmatic and judgemental and not at all warm and inclusive to non-raw people (like my family and friends). Some had crazy beliefs – like that cooked food causes all traffic accidents and crime. I found myself wondering whether nutty people just lend themselves to 100% raw well, or do otherwise normal people become nutty after they’ve been 100% raw awhile?

    3.)I don’t have the extra time now to do the raw food prep. I’m a gourmet, I loved gourmet raw, but it took soooo much of my time!

    4.) I do love cooked food.

    That said, I miss the amazing health benefits of being 90% raw vegan. If I ever find myself in a position where I can return to it, I will. But I’ll still have that weekly steak or omelet or whatever the other 10% is!

    Thanks to both of you for being examples of open-minded, sane, thoughtful, committed and loving raw fooders. Spiritual shmiritual, THAT is what defines “evolved” people!

    P.S. Bought your BODYWEIGHT exercise book and I LOVE LOVE LOVE it! Been doing all the plank variations, and I feel so strong! My back loves them! Looking forward to trying more and more…

  55. hyesun says:

    in one sentence…….
    you are SO right! and awesome!!!!
    oops, 1 1/2 sentences 🙂

  56. Louise says:

    Kevin, great show. You do a great job, bring a good balance and just plain ol common sense. Listen to your body, everyone is different! For me, I don’t do well on 100% raw so high raw works for me with using small amounts of organic chicken and fish.
    Keep up the great work!

  57. Kristine says:

    I have been out of the country for the past month so there is a lot to catch up on. One of the first was this series of interviews. I think a natural progression would be to interview Natalia Rose who promotes a mainly raw detox diet, but allows for a lot of healthy variations. Ideal food should nourish the body and leave it easily. She has also done a lot of work on the importance of women having clean, detoxed bodies for healthy, vibrant babies and children. I think this is a super important topic. Let’s look a bit more at the diet of mothers and children.

  58. Cally says:

    @Mary Artemis- yay! Another Orthodox who loves Kevin and Annemarie!! I think one thing that drew me to Orthodoxy was the whole fasting thing- and that the REASON for the fasting periods (at least in Great Lent) is so that we can return to the pre-Fall state, as we were in the Garden of Eden when we were all vegetarians. I just LOVE that idea.

    I think its pretty clear that we weren’t designed to eat meat, but what about dairy?

  59. KAREN BEATTIE says:


  60. willhelmina says:

    How could anyone living in Canada ever even
    try to be a raw foodist ….70% ? 50% ? 20% ?
    Living here in the year-round awesome warm and sunny climes of Key West just makes sense .We feel really sorry for Canadians !

  61. Kathryn says:

    To be honest, some of the most incredible and spiritual times of my life have happened when consuming a good amount of raw animal foods.

    I think its the Sulfur or MSM, Glutathione and Activator X type properties found in these type of foods.

    They are also much more grounding – so too much raw animal foods these days??

  62. Great show! I don’t believe there is a “right” or “wrong” only a harmony or disharmony within each individual. I sincerely believe in the raw food diet for healing purposes, long term sustainability I am unsure about. I would love to hear an interview with Ka Sundance as his family may be the best example of beautiful thriving raw foodist.
    Thanks for checking the dogma at the door.

    love and light,
    Christie w/ Reciprocity Foods

  63. Andrea says:

    Kevin, I appreciate the variety of interviews you do, but the guests I most appreciate, and who I follow up on, are those who have true scientific statistical research backing up what they say, along with widespread positive results on many people who follow their recommendations. Today’s newsletter has a great response from Dr. T. Colin Campbell to Dr. Mercola which is apropos to your comments today. “Whatever makes you feel good” is fine advice to those who are completely in touch with their bodies (like you seem to be); but it can be dangerous both physically and spiritually to less discerning individuals. Regarding “spirituality”, demons are spirits also, and “gods” whom “spiritually ascended” people worship are not to be mistaken with the one true God of the bible (a book which has historical, archeological, scientific, geologic, and prophetic proof of its validity).

  64. Arla says:

    Be true to yourself.
    Listen to your thoughts and whispers of your body. With moderation I am moving forward. It “ain’t” always easy! Mahalo and Aloha!

  65. Detox says:

    I am glad you shared the interview, as it’s made me think about the issues and also opened up a lively debate.

    But I think Susan’s problem is that she is not a researcher and I don’t think she knows how to conduct research. She seems to approach it in a back to front manner.

    The correct way to decide the issues would be to study all the research with an open mind and then come to a conclusion based on that research.

    Susan’s method seems to be…

    1. I’m vegan so I’ll only look for research that backs up my belief that a vegan diet is the best. She finds that evidence and ignores any evidence that contradicts her belief.
    2. She then decides that a vegan diet is no good, so looks for evidence to back this up and ignores all evidence that a vegan diet is good.

    She is not doing proper research but just trying to back up her belief system. And to top it all off she thinks that people who disagree with her are mentally deficient.

    Think about all this. Do you really think she knows what she’s talking about.

    Also, she mentioned that there was never a completely vegan or vegetarian society, so seemed to present this as some kind of proof that it was no good. But I’m pretty sure there was never a raw food, fish eating society either. But she seems to think that is ok.

    It appears to me that she is the one that can’t think straight. Her arguments are riddles with all sorts of suppositions and downright prejudices. I can’t really take her seriously.

  66. Amanda says:

    I agree with Detox (11th Sept) wholeheartedly. I don’t think that Susan Schenck is credible. I felt her interview showed a ‘desperate’ woman trying to justify her actions by discrediting anybody who disagreed with her.

    There are people thriving on a raw food diet. I am one of them. I am a high raw vegan. All through my childhood I ate meat, dairy, eggs and fish and my memory and health was atrocious. I suffered dreadful bowel problems which are only now, with the mainly raw vegan diet, being successfully dealt with.

    Kevin, thanks for all your work and interesting interviews. But let’s hear more from those who know what they are talking about!
    Love and best wishes to all.

  67. marie-andree says:

    I completly agree with nos. 61 and 62. Le’s hear more from those who know what they are talking about like Brian Clement, Dr Cousens and so many.

    Thank you Kevin, you are fantastic.

  68. I really enjoyed this episode today. How many food gurus impress on their listeners ” you are what you eat!” and unconsciously send their audience off on a guilt trip that actually blocks their enjoyment of the food that is available to them? You eat what God gives you in this world, and you try to do no harm, and you don’t abuse any of the resources on Mother Earth, and you appreciate it and give thanks for it…if you do this then you have a great diet….thanks for putting it out there Kevin.

  69. hyesun says:

    btw, i just read an article in bon apetite magazine that a chinese lady wrote about learning how to make sichuan beef noodle soup from her grandma, who is a china native. the picture of the soup had HUGE chunks of beef in it. grandma, she says, is 93 years old and still “spends her days and nights in the kitchen or in her garden, busily curing meat, preparing her signature garlicky hot sauce, or planting next season’s winter melon crop.” notice the “curing meat”. and come to think of it, the times i’ve been in china, there was meat at every meal. it seemed as if they ate lots of it. have any of the people who’ve commented on this website ever been to china? maybe it’s different in the parts of china that i haven’t been to, i don’t know. i haven’t read the china study, and maybe the observations were made way in the past. however, this 93 year old chinese lady obviously made this soup when she lived in china, back in the day. hm….. and she still seems and looks super healthy. (there was a picture of her). more evidence for nutritional typing and that everyone’s different.

  70. Lilly, comment #9, raising children–particularly babies–on a veggie diet that causes failure to thrive is indeed child abuse. There are cases where parents have lost custody of their children from this.

  71. : ) db says:

    Hi Kevin : )

    I appreciated your truthful comments! Would like to know the raw food leaders that ARE practicing what they preach. Perhaps you could just FOCUS ON THE LEADERS THAT DO JUST THAT.

    Susan was a good guest to have on your blog. I enjoyed her telling us about Robbins…informative. If one is going to go raw, you should know as much scientific and anecdotal information as possible. If people are offended by truth then they are not seeking truth (my opinion).

    Perhaps your audience could issue questions at the time of an interview to clarify any misunderstandings that could possibly develop.

    On spirituality…I am certainly no authority; however I believe GOD IS THE AUTHORITY! Man can say and do whatever he feels in his own mind is right, but GOD will be the final judge. We all will answer to HIM in one day.

    I am not aware of anyone in history that has claimed to be sent by GOD, the Father; proclaimed the TRUTH; crucified for the TRUTH; and RESURRECTED!!

    If you are genuinely seeking spiritual truth in interviews, may I recommend an interview with Dr. Ravi Zacharias. His website:
    He has debated Hawkins and others, hosted by numerous universities, etc. He was born in India.

  72. Elisabeth says:

    a lot of people who started following the raw food diet and then got healthier is because they left out certain foods, mainly gluten! this is what i would suggest to #9, Lilly, that her baby is gluten intolerant. i firmly believe this.

    kevin, this is why you’re the only one i keep coming back to. i can tell you’re honest and open minded – and tell us the inside scoop on the other “raw foodiest”.

    thank you so much for all you do!
    auf wiedersehen!

  73. Thomas says:

    Kevin, I think you did the right thing. This presentation/discussion exposes the reality of people publishing books and being taken as “experts” when in fact they did not even research their subject well at all. They are not experts, yet gullible people will call them “movement leaders” and buy their wares. It’s just about marketing and making money.

    There is one fellow in this “movement” that even plagiarized an entire book, changed the title, and presented it as his own. He is now ‘famous’ (with some followers) as a raw food expert and author.

    Thank you for waking people up and offering food for thought.

    I watched a great documentary on PBS last night called “Eating Alaska” about a vegetarian woman who moved to Alaska and faced such similar questions as those presented through these discussions. Catch it if you can.

  74. : ) db says:


    Oops…when I was writing about SPIRITUALITY, I was thinking about all that Jesus Christ had done for our world which NO OTHER PERSON COULD CLAIM. I was thinking it, but failed to add on the most important part of the thought. Sorry.

    It should read:

    I am not aware of anyone in history that has claimed to be sent by GOD, the Father; proclaimed the TRUTH; crucified for the TRUTH; and RESURRECTED except JESUS CHRIST!!

  75. shelly says:

    To #9 Lilly…I was raised on eating dead animals and dairy products…I had about 11 cavities by the age of 7..Dare I say I think dairy had something to do with that…so many comments on what Jesus would eat or did eat…I love me some Jesus but Im pretty sure our air water and food is not as clean as when Jesus walked the earth..I have been veg/vegan (I hate putting a label on myself)for 23 years… I have overcome so many health problems I wish I would have been raised vegan…not child abuse just loving all of Gods creatures…Thank You Kevin & Annmarie..Peace and understanding to all…Shelly

  76. Lotus says:

    Listen to too many teachers makes one confused… For me, I believe in one teacher who said, “If one has more desires, one will need to consume more nutrients. If one has a peaceful mind and compassionate heart, one will not need that much nutrients to sustain health.” Whole grains, vegetables, sprouts, fruits and seeds, exercise, compassionate heart, is the way to good health. Of course, there are some cases whereby weaker people need other sources to recover from illness. For them, pray and be grateful for the lives that have sacrificed. Always live in gratefulness and compassion. Humans are superior than other animals because we have compassion. Have anyone seen eg,a bear cooking and distributing porridge to those who starve during a famine? Humans are compassionate beings.

  77. iam says:

    Kevin your doing great. Just stay true to yourself and continue to lead with your heart. As I said it is all about beliefs which are programs leading you on. Just wake up and see it as it is. You are God in Action. Every word, thought and feeling you have creates your world. Where you place your attention sucks it all in. The key-control your attention and you control your world and that is you. Discipline my brothers and sisters is the only way. Life is all habits and you are in a maze. When it comes to food just eat as close to organic as you can. Sunshine, fresh air and clean water in that order rounds it out. The body is nature and is use to eating what is natural. The machine runs best when applying the above but never forget you are more than that-so much more. And do not forget the experts are also learning God in Action. They are you.

  78. Mila Ilina says:

    Thanks Kevin, I love this discussion.. it’s so important to talk about this in an open light. And it’s great to see people opening up, talking about what works for them and what doesn’t.. keeps our community honest and real.

    I would love to hear more on the subject of generational effects of vegan diets.. assuming there’s sufficient research. It may help to clarify this issue 😉

    And I’d love to know how Dr. Brian Clement would respond to this debate.


  79. This is one of the best shows I’ve seen in a long time. In my humble opinion, it’s about time the light has been shone on what’s actually happening out there in the real vs online world of health. Many people, as Kevin has mentioned, are coming down with severe difficiences and imbalances being vegan and especially raw vegan. Are some of these people not eating a well balanced diet? Possibly.. Are some of them missing valuable nutrients in their food? Possibly… Are some of them not able to assimilate the nutrients they need in the forms they are consuming? Quite possibly…Are some of them just not eating a diet that is best suited for their constitution/metabolic type/biochemical individuality/correct Ayurvedic dosha? Most likely.

    As much as some natural health leaders would like us not to believe, we ARE all unique in how our bodies process the macro and well as the micro nutrients found in our food. Our two oldest systems of medicine, Traditional Chinese Medicine as well as Ayurveda, both identify different foods, herbs, and medicine for different people. Another very old but very true saying is One man’s food is another man’s poison. And here we are, all trying to follow this person’s recommendation or that person’s recommendation without ever thinking how it relates to OURSELVES. There is no one diet that will be good for all people at all times. We are all at different stages of growth, repair, age, dis-ease, health etc. We all have been affected by our environment, our stresses and our food in different ways. How can it be said that all of one type of food or diet can be good for everyone? In my opinion, it can’t. Plain and simple. I believe this is why the medical research shows so many different outcomes and contradictions. Everyone is different and will produce different results. Not 1 person will have the exact same test results from eating the exact same diet because EVERYONE reacts differently to the same foods. Yes, there can be trends and patterns, but definitely not exacts. There is so much involved when looking at the best foods and diet for the individual. Their age, race, environment, emotional state/health, digestive strength, overall health, organ function, basic personality etc etc. Dr.’s of Chinese medicine take into account everything listed above to come to a treatment protocol for their patients. The one symptom one cause ideology is as alien to the Dr. of TCM as is Qi or Jing to a western doctor. Yet both can play a positive role in the treatment of an individual.

    For those of you who would doubt the health benefits of animal products, just take a look at the views of Ayurvedic medicine and TCM. Both view meat as something that can be healing and harming to an individual, depending on the INDIVIDUAL and their particular circumstances at the time. To paint any substance or circumstance with a broad stoke of either good or bad, black or white is to condemn yourself to a limited understanding of the dynamics of the ebb and flow of opposing forces, ying and yang.

    For a modern look into certain constitutions, metabolic types or biochemical individuality, take a look at the work done on the blood types or metabolic typing. Yes, there may be some inconsistencies and issues with the science behind some of the theories presented by the authors BUT from what I have personally seen/experienced, heard about from many different natural health practitioners, is that there is a general truth to their observations that certain types of people do well on similar diets while other similar types do well on other types of diets. There is much to be said about an individualized diet. These are just a few examples you can use/explore as stepping stones on the journey of your own personal self discovery of the ideal diet for you. For anyone to ignore and pass off the signs and symptoms of a diet gone awry because that particular way of eating works for THEM or that they believe a particular food is simply good or bad is truly providing a disservice to the person in need.

    Animal products have always played a vital role in the health of the Homo sapiens. For over 2 million years the human animal has eaten the flesh of other animals and insects. It has only been for the last 10,000 years (400-500 generations) that we have been eating grains, legumes, beans, and dairy. Modern agriculture is but an infinitesimal blip in human evolution. I believe this is why many people have such a hard time with grains, beans, legumes, dairy, and other types newly added foods to the human diet. The information and research that has been done on this theory has been conducted by Professor Loren Cordain and many scientific papers proving the health benefits of eating in a similar way as our ancestors have done (hunter gatherer) has been published in peer reviewed, scientific journals and is available on his website. Basically, the scientific research that has been done on the dangers and problems with meat has not been restricted to the types of meat that was eaten by our ancestors. Cattle (among other common types of animal flesh) that have been fed grain and other types of food not natural to the animal’s diet report an increased fat content of their meat of upwards of 30%. The fatty acid profile of the meat is also pushed to unnatural levels of saturated fats, omega 6-9 fats and other less beneficial fats than the omega 3’s that are found naturally occurring in wild animals in a much more beneficial, health promoting ratio. This is just one example of how meat has become vilified in our culture today. People that have been put on the Paleo diet have been clinically observed to have reversed type 2 diabetes, high cholesterol, high blood pressure, nutritional deficiencies, etc. Interestingly, it shares many of the same claims with people who switch to a raw food diet. I am not expressing my favor of this type of diet or ANY diet in particular. What I am trying to do is to shake some of the “facts” placed upon the pedestal here in the raw/vegan community.

    For the people who have read the China study, well there are many people in the scientific community who have opposing views to the ways some of the research was conducted and presented in the China study and anyone who is interested in hearing both sides of the debate and coming to their own conclusion would be wise to search it out the other side. A good place to start is by searching “The Protein Debate – Loren Cordain, PhD v. T. Colin Campbell”. There is more to the China study than T.Colin Campbell would all like us to believe. Another good place to look regarding the long term benefits of a vegan diet is beyondveg dot com. Again, I’m not in favor of one way or the other, I’m just stating that there’s more than one side to the debate on the health/harmful effects of animal products.

    Who am I? I am someone who has spent the better part of his adult life searching, reading, researching, and experimenting with natural health, diets, medicines etc. etc. I have spent the last few years of my life on the internet, in libraries, in Dr’s and practitioners offices and homes studying diet, natural health and the traditional ways of eating, diagnosing and medicating. I have traveled throughout SE Asia studying diets and food. I have traveled throughout Australia studying the different foods, medicines and understandings of the indigenous peoples. I spend nearly 8 hours a day on the internet watching videos, listening to audios, reading programs, talking with people, hearing their stories, hearing their problems with many different diets. I have been my own guinea pig and have experimented with MANY different foods, diets, fasts, programs, supplements, recipes, and natural health techniques. I don’t have all the answers, but I believe I have managed to gain a few key understandings in how all of this information fits together.

    Just recently I have made the decision to add animal products back into my diet. I am an O blood type with a strong constitution and seem to do very well on animal products. When I was eating a vegan diet, I was quite thin and did not have the strength I did prior to eating a high raw vegan diet, despite eat lots of high protein foods. I have also experimented with the high fruit, (80 10 10) diet and for myself, it was a complete disaster. Although, I did feel very spiritual and much more connected to what I consider a higher power. When eating 100% raw foods, I feel very light and have lots of energy but also tend to be quite spacy. When I was eating both a raw and vegan diet, I could never feel satisfied after a meal. I was always hungry and no matter what I ate, being it avocado, coconut, hemp, dates, veggies, sprouts, tonnes of fruit, I always felt something was missing from my diet. I also experienced extreme cravings for fats and sugars and also developed a subtle nervous tremor that disappeared completely as soon as I started supplementing with cod liver oil and adding sardines/fish back into my diet. This is just an example of my own personal account with the raw vegan diet. I know for some people, a raw vegan diet has been AMAZINGLY beneficial. Unfortunately or fortunately, I am not one of those people. I do feel a different energy though eating meat. A good way I can describe this energy is I feel more in touch with my basic animalistic side. I would also like to mention that it was not long after changing to a vegan diet that my sex drive diminished almost to 0. Since adding back in meat and taking a high quality cod liver oil with naturally occurring Vit A and D, it has since come back to life. A long time high raw vegan friend of mine was just diagnosed with severe anemia. Another long term (8 years) raw vegan acquaintance just switched back to cooked foods and has added some meat back in as well. This is the reality of the situation in the raw / vegan community. The glitter and gold are just that. I’m not saying that it can’t be done or that people should question their diet if it feels like it is working well for them and they test healthy. There are long term raw / vegans who are doing very well on a completely plant based diet. Like I said, it works well for some, especially in the short (even medium) term, but it’s not for everyone at all times.

    If you’re one of those people who are struggling or are just not getting the results you think you should, it’s time to stop listening to the one diet fits all approach and start listing to your own intuition and body. Forget the latest and greatest research. Forget trying to eat a certain way just because your neighbor is eating it and feels great. You need to find what works for you. You are not me, Kevin, Doug Graham, David Wolfe or anyone else. You are you and only you will be able to know what foods your body needs to feel its best. Kevin has done a wonderful job here on this site on encouraging us to listen to our needs. It’s about time we take the advice.
    If anyone would like more information on any of the topics I have discussed here please feel free to email me Jordan @ the organic revolution DOT ca.

    FYI, Many of the opinions expressed on my website and through my videos have changed and continue to change with my ever growing understandings of natural health and diet. A completely revised website with updated articles will soon be available.

  80. Meri says:

    This has been a great week. Thanks for exploring the possibilities with us Kevin, and being open and honest. Thanks too to Susan for her fascinating contributions.

    Right and wrong? Can anyone say for sure….I don’t think I can.

  81. Bev says:

    Hi – I really feel that each person has to figure out what type of eating works for them — I have huge issues with sugar now that I am 61, and even any carbs, especially fruit – I’m not diabetic (yet), but my numbers go up quickly and I feel terrible with any carbs. So I get the best milage and feel fine on a very high fat, medium protein diet. But I understand if raw foods work for some people- I have a friend who basically healed her health problems and feels wonderful as a raw foodist. Also, our diets need tweaking as we age….

  82. Bev says:

    By the way, for me, it’s the responses to your podcasts that are so very fun and informative to read. Keep up the good work!

  83. Bob Hedges says:

    There are many experts in the food / eating world who promote what works for them thinking that it should work for others. In some cases it does work but in most cases it does not work.

    Someone who is a fruitarian, vegan, or raw, and is very healthy, and their body chemistry is good, can get away with “their” diet because their body chemistry has adapted and they are able to extract all the nutrients that they need from the food they eat. However, when they write a book promoting “their” diet and what works for them, people who try it with a different body chemistry will not thrive on that diet.

    I see it all the time in the raw food world. The ambiance of eating only raw is enticing and sounds so noble and right where in reality most people should not be eating only raw because their digestive system is not able to extract the nutrients from the food they eat because their body chemistry is off, which basically boils down to mineral deficiencies.

    Cooking is a way of predigesting food for weaker digestive systems and sometimes a body needs the nutrients prepared differently.

  84. @ Eve

    I do think that it’s more the case of that kind of lifestyle attracting nutty people rather than sane people becoming nutty.
    I guess I’m lucky, because the raw foodists I know in person are all very open minded and loving people. They do not judge others for their eating habits.
    Sure, I have met the nutty ones too. But I’ve met a lot of nutty people who weren’t raw foodists as well. 🙂

  85. Jacquie says:

    Excellent series, Kevin! I love the open dialog and I appreciate the honesty. I started out 100% raw in December 2009. As of now I’m thriving following Dr. Mercola’s nutritional typing program. About 80% of my protein is from plant sources. The other 20% is from raw egg, raw goat’s milk cheese and maybe two very small portions of cooked protein per week. I thrive on this. I feel wonderful, weight is dropping off, my skin glows, my hair is so shiny. I’m so happy. Bless you and Annmarie for what you do. You do SO much work and it is SO appreciated. I have learned SO much from you that I’m indebted for life. I just keep supporting you (hmmm…need some more cinnamon!) and am so happy to do so. Blessings! 😉

  86. Michael says:


    Speaking of having an open and honest discussion!! Today is Sunday, 9/12/10, and I just listened to a show(it was pre-recorded from 9/11/10) on the radio called “The Splendid Table” ( on National Public Radio for the first time. They had a guest on who is an anthropologist by the name of Richard Wrangham.

    He wrote the book “Catching Fire, How Cooking Made Us Human” and he explained that he believes cooking is what propelled human evolution, and essentially “makes us human”, because it caused greater nutritional uptake because he said cooked foods are easier to digest “they’re pre-digested”, and an increase in energy. He said our bodies are proof that we’ve evolved to eat cooked foods citing our teeth and digestive tracts as evidence and said there are no known groups of people who can survive on purely raw foods.

    Of course, this made my eyebrows go up.

    I wrote in to the show saying they should look at the research for raw vs cooked in more detail and have a more open and honest discussion with other scientists’ perspectives and data as well and I named several sources for them to look into.

    Yes, I did refer them to Susan Schenck’s first book because it discusses numerous scientific studies on raw vs cooked, and even though she’s now advocating for meat, she still advocates for raw.

    By the way, I started eating raw salmon and I’ve started feeling better and thinking of adding raw eggs from certain good quality suppliers.

    I like the open and honest discussions.

    By the way, for those people who keep bringing up the studies on Seventh-Day Adventists (SDA) as evidence for vegeterianism and longevity and health, I must add that I was raised in the SDA church and went to SDA schools up to 12th grade then 1 semester in college. I went to SDA boarding schools all over the country (my parents were missionaries in the church for over 30 years so we traveled a lot), including in multiple parts of CA and I even worked in the cafeteria in one of the SDA boarding schools in CA. And since my parents were missionaries, we’ve eaten at numerous people’s homes and at countless church potlucks with many SDA people of many cultural backgrounds.

    As an overgeneralization, they eat tons of fried foods, and tons of soy. Their veggie burgers are full of MSG and soy and vegetable oils, additives, preservatives. They eat lots of heavily processed foods. Those veggie burgers, sausage links, breakfast patties, etc., were created for them, they are their number 1 market. Have you read the ingredients on them? My siblings feed their children that stuff and I think it’s disgusting. I’d rather have a wild caught Alaskan Salmon raw any day than one of those veggie burgers.

    They eat pizzas, mac and cheese, etc. A lot of the students complained about the super greasy foods at the schools. I would take those scientific studies with a large grain of Himalayan salt. 🙂 And a lot more scrutiny.

    Also, they’re not totally vegan, they still eat dairy and eggs. I was vegan for a number of years, but I was the only one in my family, and not many people in the church are. I was seen as a “fanatic”.

    SDA’s are also found all over the world, and people within the church still consume their respective cultural foods. So I, too, looked on in amazement at that Dr. Oz show that showed the SDA group in CA to be one of the “blue spots” of longevity. Clearly there’s more to the story. Much more.

    It is extremely oversimplistic to take one or two elements from a small group of people and conclude this is the cause of their longevity and good health, such as on the Dr. Oz show they attributed it to the high consumption of nuts, and legumes and vegetarianism in the SDA group, if I’m recalling correctly. Again, I repeat, SDA’s all over the world do the same. Why did just that small group of SDA in Loma Linda, CA get the “blue light”?

    Perhaps, contributing factors to some of the scientific findinings may be their overall emphasis on healthy lifestyles in general including preaching against drinking, drugs, etc. But again, that’s the church as a whole, not just that small group in that town.

    Also, in Sally Fallon’s Nurishing Traditions, she writes about the SDA on page 200 saying that although some of their cancer types were lower, they had many other cancer types that were much much higher than the general population.

    Again, thanks for the open and honest discussion.

    Health to all.

  87. Cindy says:

    This is one of your best shows yet, Kevin. It was actually quite hilarious to me when I got to thinking about it. I’m now 52, but since my early 20’s I have changed my diet too many times to count, adding or subtracting things according to the newest book I was reading. I’ve tried so many different ways of eating, & I think I had the best health when I simply didn’t worry so much about what I ate, as long as it was prepared at home from fresh & unprocessed foods. I had the worst health when I was vegetarian & then vegan for about 1 1/2 years. I had to add back meat, dairy, & eggs to improve my health. I now just avoid as much processed & junk foods as possible, & try not to worry about the rest. I’m in good health & don’t take any medications. I think many are able to make it as raw food vegans simply because they take lots of supplements. That’s just my opinion.

  88. Patrina says:

    I sympathise with someone up above me here in the comments who thought that maybe Susan shouldn’t have written her book. There seem to be so many “experts” out there in the vegan raw food movement! Why is everyone trying to eat perfect food, live perfect lives, marry the perfect person, find the perfect career and all other “perfect” pursuits? It’s simply not possible – food doesn’t grow in perfect conditions, everyone’s life is unpredictably imperfect, no-one could be the perfect partner for someone who’s already perfect themself (haha), even perfect careers become outdated, everything is subject to change. Perfect health? Perfect nutrition? Perfect food? Perfect fitness? I don’t think so.

    Lots of good views here, and very interesting topics that you cover Kevin, thanks!

  89. Dee says:

    For me, it’s finding the balance, what works for me. I eat eggs – cooked, seafood, some goat cheese. I remember years ago trying the macrobiotic diet and getting so sick. We are each unique. Keeping a food journal is really helpful.

    I like the additional info that is offered here, but I don’t go out and try each idea.

  90. Steph says:

    I’m with Blair and others who believe everyone has their own unique biochemistry and therefore, optimal diet.

    The trick to finding your own perfect diet is to be conscious to how you’re feeling after eating a particular food, and be aware of how much a food you can tolerate (for instance, I’m good with 2-4 eggs sporadically through the week but suffer when I have more than that and on consecutive days.)

    As for the spirituality question, whenever I’m cleansing, I feel more in-tuned with my intuition and see the bigger picture more clearly (that is, it’s easier to get past my ego). My experience tells me congesting foods brings you down to earth while cleansing foods brings you closer to heaven! But the fact of the matter is that we live in BOTH worlds – how can you function effectively here on Earth when your head is in the clouds?

    Which brings us back to the optimal diet for each person – I believe when we’ve found what works for us, our diet allows us to balance our logical and creative sides so that we’re fully functioning, constructive, whole beings.

  91. Stephanie says:

    Hm. I think you’re doing your own advance work for experimenting with animal flesh again. Fine. Go for it! I, too, can never say “never” when it comes to my diet. However, I’ll appreciate your honesty, too, when it happens, and I will at that point choose whether or not I will continue to follow your blog. Also fine.

    However, all this focus on “optimum individual health” gets a little hard for me to stomach. There is so much more to do out there in the world than obsess over whether or not I’ve had an optimal balance of protein and carbs and from what source in my diet. I am not the center of the Universe. Farmed meat is a disgusting, extravagant use of resources in light of our current environmental degradation.

    I look forward to when gears are shifted to work with others rather than this me-me-me-and-my-super-health-all-the-time stuff. When do we get to see the transformation footage start?

  92. John says:

    I agree that health is the most important thing and what should drive you and your diet. I have recently gone back to eating some meat and also more cooked foods and I feel good and I’m stronger than when I was mostly raw. I still eat a lot of raw fruits and veggies but I don’t get caught up in monitoring it and trying to stick to a certain percentage of raw anymore – that was just causing stress and I lost too much weight when mostly raw also.

  93. June says:

    I think this might just be some of the best and the most important work you have. You have created an opportunity for honesty and self evaluation about our health. This is my path and no one can tell me how I feel or how I should approach my health…no condemnation. Good job.

  94. Connie says:

    I have often said that when I get to heaven I plan to have words with Adam and Eve. If they had not done the one thing they were told not to do–eat fruit from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil–our world would not have begun to fall into ruin. Assuming some descendant of theirs did not do the dastardly deed either, we would still be able to eat perfect raw fruits, vegetables, nuts and seeds and we’d still be healthy and happy. We’d be content with natural food and wouldn’t crave the junk and cooked foods we depend on now. No animals would have to die for us. We wouldn’t be slaves to our stomachs and women wouldn’t be stuck in their kitchens, endlessly preparing highly flavoured snacks and meals for their ungrateful families. There would be no talk of “ascending” to some higher spiritual plain–because we’d still be on the plain where the Creator intended us to live.

    There is good news, though. When the Messiah returns and establishes His Kingdom on the earth we will return to that sort of world. I am soooooo looking forward to it!


  95. honey says:


    Quite simply, this is why you & AnnMarie are two of the few I choose to follow for adequate input or thoughts in various health! You both are not only upbeat, but balanced in your communication to the public spectrum. A spectrum that is agreeably diverse, yet often ignored.
    Thank you for endlessly providing such a simple perspective of mere conscious thinking to a very wide demographic. Most often it seems resources simply produce boarded up walls for hyped up ‘label’ eating.

    Diet labels definitely help people picture the genre and some may appreciate the black & white structure provided. Yet, the rest of us are sitting there with enormous road blocks in our brains. Does that make us failures or hypocrites? In contrast, perhaps it means we’re actually aware more thought may be needed for balance.

    Being accountable for your personal health choices. Invest in a little research and apply any helpful change.

    There are such wonderful gray areas to explore! Thank you for fearlessly diving into them (in reference to health) and encouraging consciousness for people, which has always been the black & white ideal in the production of journalism.
    Props to both your efforts & always, Honey

  96. Mary says:

    God Bless you Both! What a great journey of awareness and transformation. From thinking one knows what’s best for everyone, to being in the mystery of each person taking responsibility and making their own choices and trusting that All is Well! God made ea body similar and yet slightly different, each experience the same..therefore..we ea process food and life a bit differently. By honoring our differences and our similarities..we become one! With Love & Light ox Mary

  97. Ed says:

    Thank You for the question, and thank you for the questions you been asking since I first found your show. All the best.

  98. Pam M. says:

    I agree that at times we have to reassess that is working in our bodies and not be afraid what others think.

    Our little daughters ate tons of veggies and fruits this summer in excess of other things and I was thrilled with how healthy their diet was . . . until . . . hair analysis showed their minerals were really low. Our homeopath couldn’t figure this out.

    However, soon afterword I heard you, Kevin, talking about fruits stripping minerals from our bodies and figured this might be it. We have backed off having so much fruit and will test again next year.

    Thanks for all you do, you guys!

  99. wayne says:

    hi kevin
    love your show.

    on the meat issue: while the human body can subsist on a wide range of foods, especially for a short time, it is just ignorance and bad science that leads people to believe that meat is necessary or even good for you. the anatomy issue (very long intestines, no sharp teeth and no claws) should have put the meat issue to rest long ago.

    on the deficiency issue:

    the body cleanses whenever it has the time and the resources.

    cleansing uses up lots of minerals, if you don’t replace them your going to be deficient.

    the longer you cleanse the deeper you go.

    as you go deeper you may need more minerals or minerals not required for earlier cleanses
    (as you cleanse your body becomes more sensitive to toxins, not less, and the worst toxins are the most deeply burried).

    complete cleansing may take years if not decades, while alternating between periods of
    superior health and periods of discomfort.

    a regular schedule of exercize, fasting and colonics will reduce the time needed to cleanse as well as the discomfort involved.

    if a person has deficiencies, that are not genetic, and is eating a balanced diet of a variety of organic raw and/or vegan food then those deficiencies result from the extra load put on the body by cleansing and will clear up when the cleansing is finished.

    be patient and keep the faith.

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