Popular Raw Food Author Explains Why She’s No Longer Vegan : The Renegade Health Show Episode #649

Friday Sep 3 | BY |
| Comments (155)

When I started this interview, I had no idea that it would take the turn that it did…

Though I was glad Susan Schenck, author of “The Live Food Factor” was honest and open about her decision to no longer be vegan… in fact it seems like she didn’t have a choice based on the information she shared with me.

This is the first of a series of shows with her explaining what happened to her.

Take a look…

Your question of the day: What do you think so far?

Click here, scroll down to the bottom of the page and leave your comments now!

If you want a copy of “The Live Food Factor” or want to be notified when her new book is out, please email her here: livefoodfactor [at] yahoo [dot] com

Live Awesome!

Kevin Gianni

Kevin Gianni is a health author, activist and blogger. He started seriously researching personal and preventative natural health therapies in 2002 when he was struck with the reality that cancer ran deep in his family and if he didn’t change the way he was living — he might go down that same path. Since then, he’s written and edited 6 books on the subject of natural health, diet and fitness. During this time, he’s constantly been humbled by what experts claim they know and what actually is true. This has led him to experiment with many diets and protocols — including vegan, raw food, fasting, medical treatments and more — to find out what is myth and what really works in the real world.

Kevin has also traveled around the world searching for the best protocols, foods, medicines and clinics around and bringing them to the readers of his blog RenegadeHealth.com — which is one of the most widely read natural health blogs in the world with hundreds of thousands of visitors a month from over 150 countries around the world.


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  1. Joe says:

    Nutrition isn’t just about food, there are many factors to keep in consideration, wright?
    (ex. psych, relationship, spiritual, climate…)

    Love to all!

  2. Eric P. says:

    It’s not an issue, for me, of what our species ate historically. That has no bearing on my own body at this point in time. The issue (again, for me) is that I want to live without requiring other creatures to die. There must be non-animal sources of every nutrient our bodies need in order to function properly and optimally. Certainly an eating style that excludes flesh makes for a “cleaner” digestive system, and that’s where health (and illness) is often centered. More information is needed!

  3. Stanzi says:

    this interview is much appreciated! I’ve been going through similar issues in the past year since my second child was born and have been experimenting with animal foods. eggs don’t seem to be all I need, so I’m onto other forms of animal foods. been trying raw cow milk, but feel no difference. I’ve been researching what kinds of meats are ideal for b12, iron, vitamin d deficiencies and the such.

  4. Adriana says:

    …her ideas are reasonable and logical… Everything in moderation and with a lot of care- this idea applies to our nutrition as well, I think. I’m glad she is so honest about this issue. Thank you Kevin.

  5. Stanzi says:

    p.s. I’d love to stay vegan for ethical reasons. there seems to be a need for research (or has it been done?) for plant foods with not only these nutrients, but actually assimilable forms of these nutrients (i.e. beets do not have the same kind of iron as meats).

  6. bitt says:

    I am encountering this more and more. Anyone who stops eating animals for purely health reasons will give it up when their health changes. You have to care about animals too.

    Are you heading away from a vegan diet Kevin? You certainly are posting a lot of info on it lately.

    I personally wonder why she would not take supplements. She’d rather eat raw flesh than supplement?

  7. Stephanie says:

    I do not disagree with her. Nor do I have a problem with her sharing her own experience, as long as she’s touting it as such. However, I am vegan for ethical/environmental reasons. Modern grocery-store meat eating is not “natural.” Now my great uncle is approaching 90 and still hunts and prepares his own squirrel meat in Eastern PA. That’s very different from anything on the shelves anywhere – even “Whole Paycheck,” no matter what today’s author purports! And guess what? Unless absolutely necessary for survival, I’m not going out and becoming a small game hunter. Pass the sprouted legumes with flax oil, please! (Speaking of, more dreamy Jameth Sheridan would be good, too!) 😉

  8. Frances says:

    I’m slowly adding more raw food (mostly green smoothies) to my diet, but I’ve not really had the intention to become vegan. From what I’ve studied, I felt that we do, indeed, need some animal products. Probably not nearly as much as most of us eat (those who do), but certainly some.

    I’m also very happy that she is honest about it. I’ve heard of others who “preached” veganism (raw or otherwise) who themselves did not truly practice what they preached. That, to me, is a greater disservice than admitting that further experience/research has led to a personal change.

    Looking forward to the next installment! Thank you!!!

  9. zion says:

    Wow. I didn’t expect her to say that she was eating meat. I thought cooked vegan or vegetarian would be a big step for her. I say people must do what works best for them…. Her explanation seems reasonable to me. I just wonder how long she tried the vegetarian diet with foods rich in b-12. This seems like an optimal choice especially given her discussion of the rat study…. I look forward to hearing more of the interview.

  10. Jack says:

    Yeah, I don’t get either why no supplements, maybe it’s come out in the next part of the interview.
    I’ve learned that ANY position can be rationalized and “proven” true, there’s always research to support ANY perspective out there, and this goes for any aspect of life.

  11. Jonathan says:

    Interesting. Looking forward to hearing more! I believe that most people do well with some meat (properly raised and properly prepared) in their diets. I don’t know of ANYONE that does great on lots of sugar, starches, grains, and processed foods, natural or vegan though they may be.

  12. John says:

    I completely agree with her. I was 100% raw vegetarian for 8 years, when my hair started coming out my teeth were getting loose, and I was having trouble remembering things. after some research I decided to add animal protien back into my diet. Have been strong and very healthy every since. I eat clean meats and fish 3 to 4 times a week, but still eat raw fruits and vegetables. The only grains I eat are sprouted grains. Not everyone can be 100% vegetarian for very long, even the monks in Nepal eat 3 or 4 eggs a week.

  13. xplorexpress says:

    Well… I think that we are all different and that our bodies can react differently to food. I know people who are raw vegan for 30-40 years and are in perfect shape and others who need to process a very minimum of meat… it is all question of listening to our bodies. Some people can have assimilation problems, others can be profoundly depleted in some vitamins like B12 and need a constant little boost.

    We have to go with what we are, individually, and be non-judgemental. Their is no point to be sick or die for a principle — as noble as it can be. Everything in moderation, without being fanatic.

    Go with the flow and listen to your body.

  14. AJ says:

    I love your show and I absolutely love the fact that you have all sorts of different views on here. This is how we learn! I think raw foods are very healing to the body (even raw pastured eggs, raw grass-fed dairy, and yes some grass-fed raw or very lightly cooked meat.). Bravo to you guys for having the guts to have someone this controversial on here. I recently learned of the work of Weston A. Price and believe he has much truth for us to learn to truly thrive and be strong.

  15. Sheree says:

    I think that everyone has their own journey in life. For myself I eat raw and cooked food, but vegan is a good life for me. I do take B-12 supplements and my levels are awesome according to my last blood test. I too wonder why she did not try healthy supplements into her diet. I wish everyone the best in their journey of health and well being. Life is an adventure.

  16. Heather Hemphill says:

    Good on her for her honesty. I know that we need to do what is right for us and four our best intersts we must be honest with ourselves and those around us for what ever decision we make. Each has a right to their own council and I find that in the Raw food group there are a lot of Nazis out there who are very very high and mighty about how pure they are and figure that everyone around them “should” follow their example. I appreciate your giving this other side. Thank you.

  17. David says:

    It’s interesting & I’m open to her ideas, but after watching Brian Clement’s video on Monday Night Live on Shea Lynn Baird’s website, I feel conflicted & confused. I actually like salmon, but the free radicals from cooked foods hurt me.
    eating it raw is very risky and the mercury level in fish is probably rising even in wild salmon.

  18. Joyce Braun says:

    I dont think her ideas are well supported. Saying that mice who only eat fruit will eat each other because they need brain food makes no sense. Mice arent meant to live in cages; they all eat each other regardless of what they’re fed.

    I also must disagree with the b12 argument. I think we are all low in it not because of meat, but because of how obsessed we are with clean foods. All the pesticides have kept all the bugs and insects away from our foods which would have helped us get more b12. I was lower in b12 when I ate meat.

    Lastly, i would really like to know what studies she is referencing and how they are done, so I could read it for myself. I dont think that saying that people have ate meat for years, so that makes it ok. I prefer more research like Colin Campbell’s where he shows an obvious correlation between eating meat and developing disease.

  19. Max Lambert says:

    I don’t know that I agree with what she says about humans needing meat or that we are natural meat eaters. I do love meat, but this year I decided to not eat meat for 12 months. I started November 1. I know that I will go back to meat but I do believe that if I wanted to, I could live a healthful life (with memory) without meat.
    I do not believe that humans need meat.

  20. Chris says:

    I’ve been vegan and largely raw for 26 (twenty six) years.. and totally raw for 6 years – – so I have longevity in this lifestyle. Becoming Raw Vegan is the single best thing I have ever done for my health.. and I would never go back to eating any part of SAD again.

    No animal ever again has to suffer fear or pain. . so that I may eat a meal.

    Susan needs to do what she needs to do. . I can only speak for myself. I appreciate the interviews.. and I’m much older than Susan. My memory remains intact.. strong and vital, as does my physical body.

    Truly.. this is food… . good and nourishing food. It feeds every cell of our bodies. I encourage anyone wanting to go in this direction to not hesitate. I have reversed serious health problems and premature aging – – that many of you have not yet faced..or dealt with in any way.

    My advantage now is “experience’ being older AND having done this for MANY years already.

    Many of your are relatively new to this lifestyle. Its an adjustment…and I made mistakes along the way.. but I thrive living this way .. and so can others. Stay with it, work out the kinks; they do indeed come along. Most of them are deeper levels of poison coming out of your system. As it passes you achieve higher levels of awareness. This is truly an amazing lifestyle. Don’t give up. .


  21. Mary Artemis says:

    There is plenty of evidence also to countermand this notion. I personally know someone who thrives on eating only fruit daily, and more occasional salads for minerals. To look at him is amazing – VERY strong teeth and bones, mind, memory and healing capacity. (His name is Loren Lockman and he operates a fasting clinic in Panama).

    There could also be operating an evolutionary phase within one’s own span of lifetime (there is evidenc that our teeth are NOT ‘canine’ teeth meant to tear meat, which seems accurate). So, if one has been eating meat one’s entire life since a baby, their own body has been literally primed and programmed for meat from young. …So any changes in that, or “evolving toward vegan”, as she states it, would have to be more gradual. That’s what me thinks.

  22. Sue Paterson says:

    Thanks for a wonderful interview. We all have our own unique formula for diet and health and over time it probably shifts as well. And I honor her for finding her own formula. I have tried for years to go vegan and always end up with some meat and fish back in my diet. Just seem to need it. So, when I do eat it, I try to do so mindfully and with humility. And it seems to work. Thanks for presenting all views!

  23. lm says:

    Hmmmm, interesting. I believe that we started out on the original diet our Creator gave us -fruits, nuts and seeds, limited raw grains, then He added “herbs of the field” (we call them veggies” after the fall for their healing qualities (fruit=cleansing/nourishing, nuts/seeds=energy/building, limited raw grains=power/sustaining). I’ve looked into the theory as well and understand her struggle – and for some meat eating might be necessary, but in my opinion, not b/c of “us having evolved eating meat” (Biblically it was only “allowed” after the flood) but because of the 3 fold curse the earth has endured because of sin. (1 at the exit of the garden, 2 when it opened it’s mouth to receive the blood of the first murder victim, and 3 at the flood). It’s just not yeilding the power and lushness that it once had and that shows in the fossil record. (All creation groans to be delivered from the curse). So, we are deficient, and for some, meat helps them. Diet is individual. I’m glad she found something that helped her.

  24. Meri says:

    I was vegan for 10 years (vegetarian for 2 years before that) and last year I changed to a vegetarian diet and then gradually incorporated fish and then meat into my diet (cooked, not raw meat). I did this because I felt I wasn’t getting everything I needed from my diet. I’m worried about why I have a lot of grey hair that started at age 19 and I’m now nearly 28. I have not had blood tests done to see what my nutritional status is so I’m really guessing and experimenting at the moment. I would rather have test results to help me make decisions but can’t afford to have the tests done right now. I’m still feeling my way through this and evaluating my diet every day. No doubt I will continue to change it as time goes on. Not sure where I’ll end up eventually.

  25. Darlene says:

    This is exactly why the Paleo diet works! It incorporates lean animal protein into the diet but does not allow any grain or dairy. People on Paleo are strongly encouraged to eat as many different vegetables as possible, raw preferably or cooked at a very low temperature so as not to destroy the valuable enzymes. Fruit is also allowed but very little since it increases your blood sugar quickly.

    I love raw vegetables and have even had a raw cheesecake! I find it hard to eat some vegetables raw though, since certain vegetables are very hard on my digestive system. I have been advised to cook most of the vegetables I eat for this reason and it helps greatly.

    Love your show Kevin as it gives so many different points of view! Keep up the good work!

  26. Chris says:

    Just an “ALSO” I’d like to add to my earlier message: Sometimes in the raw vegan lifestyle.. we do appear to be manifesting a problem as we clean out our cells at deeper and deeper levels.. Its all part of the cleansing process that goes on for YEARS. . Then we start ‘building and strengthening. . and you’ll be amazed how your teeth get stronger… same with your hair.. your muscles..

    Hang in there sweet people. The journey is amazing.

  27. Lorraine Grant says:

    Thank you both for admitting that pure veganism does conribute to certain nutrient deficiencies, just as every other dietary nod does. Even consuming so-called complete proteins like beans and brown rice, or anasazi beans, or chia seeds, isn’t giving us everything we need. Whole eggs are an excellent source of protein and good fats and whole eggs should be eaten. Because of serious health concerns, I try to cross over into several types of dietary lifestyles, and have found that this works for me. But I still have to take supplements just to survive. You’re providing a genuine service, thank you!

  28. Wow that is pretty radical. Well I think she is entitled to her own beliefs. Personally I feel a bit unqualified to answer this from a medical point of view but I would definitely like to hear what Dr. Gabriel Cousens M.D would have to say about this Kevin. If you would ever have the oportunity to find that out. He is definetely qualified and I respect him and his opinions higher than most. He might say something like there is no one diet for everyone. Just as there are thousands of genes variations etc. there is also variations on each individual’s needs. I would venture to say that Susan Schenck could find some vegan substitute for the eggs and meat she is consuming if her body type lacks B12 and other needs. Anyway she is entitled to her own opinions and I tend to not judge others. To each his own. I do respect all living creatures however and find it hard to eat them. And yes the earth’s population does tend to play a part in not enough resourses for all to be eating meat etc. It really comes down to a moral issue as well as an environlental one, NOT jsut a spiritual decision or physical one as to whether to be vegan or not. WOW TO be VEgan or NOT Vegan that is the question even if it is brought into question like this…
    Thanks for putting this out there Kevin cuz it may be rather controversial. Keep up the great interviews of all types.
    sincerely, Thomas

  29. I agree with Susan that we’re not intended to decline so early in our life. It doesn’t make any sense that 40 is our peak, when we can still have 60 more years to live.

    And my 95 yo veg grandmother who still does aerobics 3x a week would likely agree.

    I’m 46 and feel better today as a vegan than I did at 20 as an omnivore.

    That there are very healthy vegans going vibrantly into middle age and beyond says to me that there’s not a problem with the diet … but that some may not be following it correctly.

    To refuse supplements in favor of flesh doesn’t really make a lot of sense. Animal feed is supplemented with all sorts of things. To funnel food through an animal to eat it second hand doesn’t seem wise to me. To funnel supplements through an animal seems even less wise.

    Something else … I’ve noticed that when people switch from vegan back to omnivore they start looking quite unhealthy again. They turn grayish and lose that pinkness and vibrant look. I don’t know if that means anything health wise, but it’s quite distinct.

    Yes, omnivorism does seem to be the new bandwagon. But thing is, SAD is omnivorism … and every day with more we get more evidence that “organic” “grass fed” and “free range” are no less unhealthy than factory farmed animal products.

  30. Casey and Mateo says:

    I love your words Kevin-
    “listen” “with an open mind” and the same question that you keep asking is “are enzymes the best reason for a Raw Diet?” You have had so many people that you have asked this question to and it is really important.

    What i think is that it is sad that this woman felt so ashamed of taking care of her own health that not only did she have to hide it/herself, she makes jokes about it here. I feel that the fascist, fanatical concepts that people have created around certain diets (raw,vegan,veg,ect)are creating unhealth. When some one feels that they “must” hide who they are and how they are and suppress them selves this is no more healthy than a BigMac.

    I thank you Kevin for asking these questions and bringing this up, you are not naive to this topic I am sure and it shows class that you took this opportunity.

    I think we could all use a bit more class and less judgment in our lives.

    We, here as a community and as humanity need to see that we are all learning as we go every day, who is the expert that can not learn more tomorrow?

  31. Barbara says:

    Hi Kevin. I think that providing this type of information can be very useful. However, I think that it is only useful if we are given a chance to evaluate it properly. Otherwise it is more likely to feed into the fears of people and create confusion.

    Perhaps this is coming up in the next interviews, but in order to properly evaluate Susans situation I would really like to know exactly what she ate. A vegan diet is a very broad term. Even a raw vegan diet is a broad term.

    There can be many reasons for failing to thrive on a raw food diet. A raw vegan diet with very little greens (less than 10-20 ounces/day) is very likely to eventually lead to mineral deficiencies. A raw diet too high in fat can still lead to candida, diabetes, heart disease, even if it is all raw. A diet filled with certain stimulants can create all sorts of imbalances and problems. Etc…

    Simply stating that a vegan diet made someone sick is not useful. It is like saying that moving to Ireland made someone sick. But then when they moved back to the US, they became well again. Therefore Ireland is a bad place. This is flawed logic and is just not useful or constructive.
    (Sorry, I have nothing against Ireland. I hear it is an amazingly beautiful place.)

    Looking forward to hearing more.

  32. anastasios says:

    Cris i believe you.raw food changed my life for ever.But we need to eat them in the right form in order to achieve the ultimate health,in order to have the ultimate function of our spirit mind and body.Right?

  33. Jen says:

    one observation, her voice is deeper and demeanor has changed. she’s comes across ‘rougher’

    i feel it could be the meat, i’m glad she is feeling better,

    i hope for her to be careful with it.

    just as parasites can influence us to eat sugar and feed imbalance, so i believe it to be true of flesh products.

    thanks for sharing. no judgement here.

  34. Aine says:

    I just wanted to say thank you to Chris for posting these messages. Vegetarain diet may not be for everybody but it seems to be the way diet will evolve as we get less physical, more psychic and more spiritual. Food is an energy source, different foods have different kinds of energy; I suppose it depends on what kind of energy you wish to develop….

  35. Amy Davidson says:

    I agree with Barbara, it would be interesting to she what she was eating. It would also help to see why she went directly to eating meat without trying supplements first.

    I’m so glad that you finally interviewed the author of The Live Food Factor, since this was the first book that I read about raw foods. I’m anticipating the next installment of the interview!

  36. Caleb says:

    Chris, not sure what you mean about the strengthening hair and teeth. I’ve heard more stories about people losing hair when going vegan. That isn’t always the case though. My hair has been gradually thinning for years, but when I started eating high raw it seemed to speed up a bit, but has leveled out since I diversified my diet (although still vegetarian). Everybody’s body is different, so if somebody feels the need to eat meat and then sees positive results from doing so, then they probably should.

    I’m a firm believer raw foods are highly beneficial, and the more I eat the better I feel, but there is a certain point where I know I need other foods.

  37. Yes, even when we were not vegetarian we only ate meat sparingly, and only organic, once in awhile. When my husband read John Robbins books and the amount of protein in dark green veggies he was ‘sold’ and we became vegetarian. after my heart attacks in Dec I because vegan instantly as I was, in order to avoid sugar, eating lots of cheese! We eat mostly raw for breakfast and lunch and lightly steamed veggies for supper and salad. But we do supplement. What does she have against supplement? we use Maxgxl products and the N-fuse vits from Max and I have energy to burn. they are a very reputable company and Iwe both feel great. we also take Red Star nutritional yeast with B12 to be extra safe. LOL
    Still I find her story very interesting so will continue to follow. thanks Kevin

  38. Jolie says:

    I think you are right Kevin that everyone should have blood and hair tests etc. to see
    where they are at. Maybe everyone is different.

  39. Alex Heffron says:

    If you are not getting much vitamin B12 from your diet, is it ok to just take a supplement? Would that be sufficient? I have heard that the best form of B12 is red meat, but I don’t want to eat meat, so would a supplement be an ok replacement?

  40. Missy says:

    thanks! this is awesome. i love it when something takes a radical turn unexpectedly. that’s what i really enjoy about your show…you are staying open to other possibilities and not afraid to put it out there. i think it’s entirely possible that some folks do better w/animal products. and i also agree with her that we may indeed be evolving towards a vegetarian/vegan way of living as the years go on. afterall, the human body is adaptable and will change itself according to what’s available, even tho it may take years for that change to establish itself. good for her for being honest! can’t wait for the next segment.

  41. Jen says:

    I agree that different foods work for different people. For instance, I get the same good feeling from eating raw oysters or fish as I do from raw fruit and veg. I do like the taste of meat but struggle to chew and swallow it. Eggs don’t agree with me at all. Using Susan’s example of listening to your body is very important. All aspects of our life tell a lot about what our body needs. Some people are vegan, some people are not, it all works unison. Some animals eat plants some eat meat but notice that no animal cooks it’s food. I think its great that you share information from different view points keep up the good work Kevin 🙂

  42. crow says:

    I believe it is an individual chose to be a vegan or eat some meat. I know I eat dairy products but advoid meats.

  43. Janet says:

    Part of the problem she had and doesn’t realize it is that she was eating flax! It is 3 times more estrogenic than soy and causes a lot of the problems she was having. I think she made a wise decision for her body/self. Also there is no overpopulation. We simply do not use resources wisely and waste a great deal. It was said that during the times of Atlantis that there were many more people than there is now. This video from the Rocky Mountain Institute will explain why the real issue is an issue of use of resources and not overpopulation. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZHASS1Yjg_s

  44. KarenS says:

    Years ago, long before I ever heard of vegetarian or vegan diets I knew a very dear lady in her 80s who ate a typical SAD diet so regularly ate eggs and a variety of cooked meats and fish. She had a condition however that despite eating liver and such, she was not able to assimilate the B12 so had to go once a month to the doctor for a B12 shot which would perk her up for awhile and by the time the month had passed, her symptoms of lack of B12 would re-immerge. There are so many individual needs that we should always be mindful, tolerant of an individual’s decision to eat what they personally feel they must eat in order to thrive. I remember before deciding to become vegan how I practiced acceptance of other people being vegetarian/vegan and I now practice acceptance of people who choose to consume animal products. I choose to eat a high raw vegan diet as I found that I thrive better eating this way than before when I consumed animal products. I like to keep an open mind and listen to what others experience so I am glad you have shared this interview.

  45. Nikki K says:

    I think a clue here is that Susan stated that at the time of her health decline, she was eating a VERY HIGH CARB DIET. She also hinted at having a pretty stressful life.

    I’d like to ask if at this same time ,
    was she eating ample Vegan PROTEIN sources like Beans, Legumes, Nuts, Seeds, Mushrooms, etc.. ?

    Interestingly …
    a LOT of Meat Eaters – as well as Vegans – are low in B-12 due to low levels of Intrinsic Factor in their Gut which prevents them from Metabolizing B-12 efficiently.

    The same holds true for a lot of folks having low Vit D levels… even if they spend a lot of time in the Sun. (Kevin & Ann Marie can attest to this).

    Many cultures build up the flora of “Good” Bacteria as well as add some B-12 intrinsic factor into their Gut by OCCASSIONALLY adding Yogurts, Kefirs & Cheeses from usually grass fed and raw Milk, into their diets. Fermented Foods can also help.

    We can REPLENISH B-12 and Intrinsic Factor occassionally (once a year or so) once levels are adequate and the intestines and gut are functioning well, and maintain this adequate B-12 level in our Gut for years.

    Once they become depleted, we might then need replenish them again with a sort of “boost up” of Dairy.

    A Lacto and/or Lacto-Ovo Vegetarain Diet can usually be MORE than adequate in supplying all of the B-12, and D (plus SUN)that we need.

    Some folks add Eggs to their diets which – although an animal FLESH source – can be eaten without having to kill another animal (specifically if eating UNfertilized Eggs), which add B-12 and Protein to their diets.

    However, everyone and every circumstance is different, and poor Nutrition (ie. too high a simple carb diet), a poor Lifestyle (smoking and drinking and not Sleeping enough), STRESS (!EEK!), and Environmental toxins, can diminish our B-Vitamins levels including B-12.

    Note : We can get a quality Omega 3 and Omega 6 (Balanced) VEGAN source oil with DHA etc… with quality Vegan products such as UDO’s oil (available at Whole Foods and many other stores in the refrigerated section), that will supply us with Vegan source Omega 3’s (albeit metabolized possibly a bit slower than fish oil, but still more than adequate).

    The Weston Price folks and Donna Gates – who is an advocate of their philosophy – have some good info about the dangers of processed and GMO Soy, etc… BUT their adament stance that we must ALL eat Meat is a bit too strong, in my opinion.

    YES.. we ARE evolving, and when we eat Vegan and mostly LIVE Foods , we CHANGE the frequency and vibration of our very Cells. Many Spiritual teachers tell us this truth.

    In Civilization (arts, sciences, spirituality)we have strived to rise above our baser animal instincts and choose to Live in a Higher Consciousness and Energy of Love, Compassion, Charity, & Peace , etc.. There is a DRIVE to TRANSFORM our animal natures into something higher than the animals: a HUMAN BEING.

    IF you really want to Live a Life where you do not have to take Life for you to Live ,
    PRAY for an answer and a way. But you need to ASK. The answers will come.

    GOD BLESS US ALL ! on our Journey to LOVE & LIGHT & HOPE & PEACE & JOY !

    PS And yes Kevin… Are YOU considering eating Meat ? If so… Please do investigate more options that are out there whereby you can maintain your Heart’s Path, and still maintain your optimal health.

    on your Journey to LOVE & LIGHT …

    PEACE .

  46. hyesun says:

    awesome interview! i completely agree with her, for MYSELF, and eat probably very similarly to the way she eats – lots of raw as well as some cooked veggies (to inactivate some of the anti nutrients, such as goitrogens), and clean raw animal products. i juice everyday too. i can’t survive on vegan – i’ve tried it and always felt bad. i also think it’s sad that she felt like she had to hide the fact that she was eating animals foods because of how people would react. supposedly there are vegans who are closet animal food eaters because of this reason. that’s terrible that some people judge others by that.

  47. Lori says:

    I believe that all human beings will one day be vegans. We are evolving. Not everyone can tolerate a 100% raw vegan diet. I tried for 2 years and my hair was falling out. It depends on your blood type and how fast you metabolize your food.

  48. Bear says:

    This is an issue of evolving consciousness for each and all of us – where our higher self interacts with our physical, animal self and its needs. We are each at our own place on these dimensions. I have fluctuated into and out of vegetarian and vegan for over 30 years, noticing my ‘need’ for meat and trying to be aware of whence it comes – nutritional, emotional, social, elemental, etc. Discussion and further research of functional, ethical and spiritual aspects are important – as human knowledge of itself is still in pre-school.
    So glad you opened this subject, Kevin, as we all need to listen and grow – as much as pursue seriously what is good for each our self.
    I look forward to more of the interview and discussion here.

  49. Wait a minute. If she was bloated all the time, then that was an obvious sign of indigestion. I’m not surprised that she wasn’t able to assimilate the nutrients in the food if she wasn’t able to digest it properly.

    Obviously, eating meat did improve her situation. But I think that she would be able to solve the issues just as well through making changes within the vegan diet.
    Not saying one way is better than the other, just that I don’t agree with her conclusions.

    Personally I don’t recognize meat as food. I truly believe that it is a learned behavior to eat meat, and its not natural for us to chew on a cow. Now, I’m not saying that it’s bad or unhealthy, just saying that I can’t for my life imagine how someone could argue that they have a natural desire to eat the flesh off another mammals dead body.

  50. lori says:

    Very interesting, but the thing I have a problem with is that she seems to generalize what is right for her, to everyone. Instead of realizing that maybe a raw vegan diet wasn’t right for HER (and probably bc she didn’t do the research to do it carefully and make sure she was getting enough omega 3 from other sources) she now seems to imply that raw is WRONG and omnivore is RIGHT. Am I hearing her wrong? I believe in bio-individuality, and what concerns me with her interview is that she may scare off raw, vegan newbies into thinking you can’t thrive on this type of diet….

  51. lori says:

    Barbara, I just read your post. I agree with you 100%.. my sentiments exactly, though you verbalized it much better :)))

  52. I would love to hear a weekly food log of exactly what she was eating before. Also, i agree w/ Joe (first commenter), if you are stressed out it can deplete B12 and I am sure her husband was stressing her out if she did not remember his name. (lol j/k!)

  53. Patty says:

    This does seem like an extreme reaction; it’s like finding a few leaking pipes in your house and solving the problem by tearing the house down. It also seems like a very individualized situation that might have been corrected by other means; afterall, over many many years there have been an awful lot of people following a vegan lifestyle and I’ve seldom read of anyone suffering from these conditions.

  54. JB says:

    Agree with comment 18 Joyce Braun.

    Colin T Campbell, Dr McDougall and many have proven beyond a doubt that it is healthier on a plant based diet. (not a raw one).
    Are we listening to experts and eating properly and remain healthy, or eating a SAD diet and becoming ill, overweight.
    Need to look at the background of who you listen too and ask the question are they credible ?

  55. Zoe Raine Simmons says:

    Just another piece of evidence that we are all different in our dietary needs. I for one have been doing much better as a mostly raw vegan. The results have been significant as I changed from omnivore to vegetarian to vegan to mostly raw whole foods. B12 is the killer vitamin though. I can really see changes is myself when I haven’t gotten enough one week to the next. I wish there was a more exact science to this but as far as I have read in the China Study, absorbing vitamins like B12 is much easier to do from plants then it is from animals. I can’t wait until this is more of an exact science.

  56. Lela says:

    Just out of curiosity, what is Susan Schenck’s blood type? If she is type “O” perhaps she requires meat in her diet. It seems to be the “A” blood types that do better on a vegetarian/vegan diet. Since not all solutions work for all people, diet needs to be approached on an individual basis. I commend Susan Schenck for not being black-and-white about her diet. She took responsibility for an issue she was experiencing and corrected it. I think everyone should have the same courage to do so, even when peer pressure exists to do otherwise. Kevin, thank-you for approaching health with the commonsense viewpoint of what works rather than espousing dogma.

  57. imlivingandlearning says:

    To #29 (Lisa on Raw)

    “But thing is, SAD is omnivorism … and every day with more we get more evidence that “organic” “grass fed” and “free range” are no less unhealthy than factory farmed animal products.”

    Can’t agree that SAD is accurately equated or compared to omnivorism. To me, SAD by defintion implies denatured, packaged, opposite-of-FRESH, highly processed, additive-rich, sugar-laden, trans fat-filled, etc., etc., etc. Certainly this would be MILES away from a WHOLE food, fresh, non-processed omnivorous diet. Certainly.

    Would like to see references for the “evidence” that supports your statement that “grass fed and free range are no less unhealthy than factory farmed animal products.” That doesn’t make ANY sense at all.

    I’m not advocating any particular diet with this post just wanting to understand what you posted more. Hope you will clarify.

    thanks 🙂

  58. Mary Artemis says:

    Also must remember the lack of minerals in the soil. Not at all what was intended

  59. imlivingandlearning says:

    On the question: “Enzymes being strongest point to recommend raw.”

    Kev, I truly admire how you just ask the questions and RESPECT the interviewee to express THEIR understanding. You are grace in motion! When I heard the answer to your enzyme question I was reminded of how well you do this!

    I thought that the CURRENT understanding is that it could NOT be the enzyme component to raw foods that explains their tremendous health benefit. I thought that “argument” was pretty much “debunked” (I apologize, I can’t think of better word right now) but you have had the reasons why this is likely true expounded on in previous interviews although those people are by no means the only proponents of a PRIMARILY raw diet who hold this to be true.

  60. Michelle says:

    Hi Kev,
    Well I am a vegan for 29 years. I look 20 chronological years younger.
    I feel amazing!! All my blood tests are superb:) I coach concerning health and nutrition myself. My website is
    WWWIhelpbackpain.com. I do supplement nutriceuticals and I use herbs in a logical fashion. No gray heair, wrinkles or cellulite, plus an amazing memory. (I thank God) So, for ethical, health and spiritual reasons I eat a combination of vegan porteins, get my EFA’s and other supplements and I am a happy camper. (so are my clients-read the testimonials)
    PS..As per the USDA-the average vege meal has 500 pathogenic bacteria, while a meat based meal has 750,000,000 to 1,000,000,000 pleomorphic/pathogenic bacteria.
    The immune system is always using the debit card.

    Love and Light,
    Neuromuscular Pain Relief Center

  61. imlivingandlearning says:

    Hmmmmm. To those who question of her choice to EAT FOOD to acquire whatever nutrients she understood her body to lack vs. taking SUPPLEMENTS (manufactured in many/most cases) as a more “natural” progression/approach, I must raise an eyebrow.

    For those who just can’t get down with her eating animal products for ETHICAL reasons I understand completely.

  62. Rob says:

    So far I agree with everything Susan has said. I would encourage EVERYONE to read The Vegetarian Myth by Lierre Keith. You too, Kevin!!! I would love to hear your thoughts on it and I think Lierre would be a GREAT guest for you to interview!!!

  63. Elizabeth says:

    I used to eat fish, and tinned fish. During years I’ve been vegetarian (eaten eggs and cheese and yoghurt), the only thing I’ve had a real hankering for at times has been sardines and/or anchovies – with a vengeance. My good eating has gone up and down over the years, I’m not in the best eating space now, but R.H. is helping me get out of it, but I now have great distress eating fish. Although I read the tins, I can’t be sure the fish is not drift net caught. And fish caught close to shore is supposedly high in mercury.
    I have a great dream to farm fish in the tablelands (barramundi) in Far North Queensland where I live. I know I am better with animal protein. But my planetary distress is real. I think lots of people feel this way about fish these days. We really must do other and better things with the oceans than we are doing.

  64. imlivingandlearning says:

    I’m also waiting to hear the concluding parts of the interview. I prefer to have as much information as possible before commenting on the interview itself.

  65. Mamabird says:

    I’ve read,heard, know,and believe that once the animal is killed, it starts decomposing
    (rotting). When you cook him or her, the nutrition is cooked out of them. It makes since. Don’t need an education or an expert to figure that out. The animal isn’t protien. It’s a dead being that loved life.

  66. Pat says:

    Great interview. I believe we were created to eat meat. Probably more as a condiment. Keep up with the great info!

  67. imlivingandlearning says:

    Need to add)

    …To say or even imagine that there is A (SINGULAR) diet that is IDEAL and OPTIMAL for EVERY individual really, really boggles my mind. There have been TOO MANY changes—from our environment to our DNA!—to dogmatically purport that nothing inherent in INDIVIDUAL physiology requires adaptation from a “standard” or GENERAL protocol. Just mind-boggling that this is a point of contention for some.

  68. bryan says:

    I have no problem w/ anyone doing what they feel like is best for them. However, I’m curious as to what Kevin thinks, or what Peter Ragnar thinks, or Storm Talifero thinks, or Lou Corona thinks, or Jameth Sheridan thinks. With the exception of Kevin, these guys have been vegan or raw vegan quite some time and appear to have been very succesful. With these people having such success it’s hard too wrap my mind around not being able to remain atleast mostly vegan if not all raw. But, I do have the upmost respect for guys like Daniel Vitalis and I’m open to learning from anyone that has valuble information whatever their choices might be. I also think we have to take into consideration that the percentage of research and real life experience w/ vegan or raw vegan compared to a “normal diet” even now is really still very small. I don’t know of any “clincal” trials or studies of the raw diet or vegan diets that are being conducted on a large scale. So I think we still have alot of learning to do… or maybe unlearning …I don’t know…anyway

  69. Satori says:

    This interview is amazing and can’t wait for the next one! Eating clean meat and fish is ok for me. My body feels good after eating meat or eggs. Dairy doesn’t do any good for my system though. I think we just need to listen to our body. I’m glad that she is being honest about her eating meat. Unless she was avoiding animal products for ethical reasons, it’s up to her to decide where she will supplement vitamins that lack from.

  70. Jo Ann says:

    I agree that our body needs more than just vegetables. I could be happy with just veggies, but i do occasionally like eggs and cheese. I picked up on the comment about the fish oil and the memory, I will start on the fish oil as this has become an issue with me too, kinda embarrasing at times.

  71. Julie says:

    I thought this was interesting, but there are too many details missing from this segment for us to have a really clear picture of Susan’s situation.

    I’m about 50-60 percent raw and about 85-90 vegan, and working to increase those percentages. I don’t know that I will be 100 percent vegan or raw at any point, but I’m exploring the possibility.

    Susan obviously needs to do what she thinks is right for her. But I wonder what supplements she tried, whether she tried getting B12 shots, what her style of eating was like, etc. I think publishing a book about her experience is relevant, but I have trouble with the idea of presenting the information as being true for all people. It sounded to me like what she was saying was that all people would have to get animal protein. Hearing accounts from long term healthy vegans makes me think that can’t necessarily be true for everyone.

    Personally, I tend to think she could have done something different had she been tested sooner and found the right foods and supplements, but I wasn’t with her and I’m not an expert. So what do I know, right?

  72. Genevieve says:

    This has been a very freeing interview for me. I’ve been mostly vegan for a few years now and my health has declined- mostly because I’ve been irresponsible with my health. I have no intention of ever eating meat- that’s not even a temptation for me- but getting enough protein is a real issue for me. And yes, I am aware that I can eat nuts and beans and tons and tons of greens or whatever, but doing that is kind of difficult when you are cooking for a family and you are the only person who eats this way.

    My doctor told me to go all Weston A. Price and eat more fat and animal protein. I told her I couldn’t do that, so we came up with a compromise in the form of cultured dairy, namely, yogurt and also coconut oil. I pretty much can’t handle any other dairy, but yogurt seems to be okay.

    Anyway, thanks for posting this, Kevin.

  73. Lois Kubota says:

    Wow, good for Susan to come out and talk about her issues. I think that everyone is different and has different needs. I have read so much about raw foods and about how you don’t really need as much protein as a common nutritionist is taught, but I find if I just stick to raw fruits and vegetables I am starving. So I eat eggs (cooked) and I eat fish both raw and cooked and I eat beans and tofu too.

    Everyone is different and has to listen to their own body. You can read as much information as you like but in the end you should put together a program that works for you and know that sometimes it has to be adjusted as you age.

    And that’s the truth!

  74. i disagree with susan on eating animal foods
    read t.colin campbell’s book the china study as
    it documents how detrimental animal protein is for
    the body with animals and people

    i have been vegan 20 years and never plan to change that, ever and will find a way if i need to in dealing with things that come up with my health

    thanks for sharing this, i already heard that susan was no longer a vegan and eating meat, so to each his own

    check out my 42 day coconut water cleanse on my blog http://www.rawsomegal.wordpress.com for a day to day account from start to finish beginning in december 2009 – click on the archive for that month to read it from the beginning

    have a great weekend!
    chef mindy aka Ageless Raw low-fat Vegan Beauty

  75. Tommy says:

    If Susan is healthier with her nutritional changes, then there isn’t much debate. But there could be other factors besides diet alone.
    I feel like the luckiest of people. I’ve been vegan for 18 years, and mostly raw for a great number of those years. I’m 56 years old and I still have a memory that is flawless. I run 14miles twice a week on the beach barefoot. This summer I hiked and climbed the Northern Cascades for thousands of feet and 10’s of miles over 9 days. Nutrition is nothing without lifestyle and consciousness. Whatever it is that blessed me with this vibrance I am truly thankful.
    Consciousness is the one and only reality. This is what has worked for me.

  76. Basia says:

    Thank you for this interview. Ex-veganism and the paleolithic diet are hot topics right now, and the more we know why/what changes people make, the better off we all are, even if there is NO agreement. I have been vegetarian or vegan for over 20 years, and am in good health (I’ll be reviewing my annual blood work with the new e-book to scrutinize more).
    Ultimately, I think that any diet, perhaps even more so a veg/high raw diet takes a lot of ongoing work, such as frequent supplementing and making dietary changes in response to what the body needs at any given time. I also agree with those who state that being motivated by health is not enough. If you care about the animals and environmental sustainability, you have a lot more motivation to make it work. Not only can I not imagine eating raw meat, but I cannot imagine it being sustainable and safe enough in today’s world, and in the long run, not creating its own health problems. When I have had veg friends going back to eating meat, they seem to eat quite large amounts of it. It seems that at most, only small amounts of meat could ever be healthy (eg, see various Blue Zones longevity diets although even then, vegan Adventists have shown us it isn’t necessary).
    In sum, this interview is personally distressing, but it also provides motivation for learning even more about the ingredients for good health. I look forward to the next segment.

  77. john says:

    I find it fascinating that God Almighty who Created the UNIVERSE and planet Earth is which is around 6-10 thousand years old ,not millions or Billions of years old as the evolutionists would love you to believe. Take for example a cow or horse ,elephant,rhino,ox,goat,to name a some all eat grasses of one form or another and I never heard of a wild ox ,rhino or elephant get any of the humane diseases like cancer or colon cancer etc. Yet look how brutally strong they are and how hard they work with unflinching stamina for extreme long hours plowing in fields for farmers the world over like the horse. Mans teeth are specifically designed to eat grains ,herbs ,vegetables–a variety whole foods that God specifically told Adam to consume and take care of the garden. So my Question who Knows more God or some man with an Advanced Doctors /PHD degree,or researcher. Take the lion,or any cat or dog that eats meat or any animal that eats flesh they are sluggish ,lazy and do not have any stamina for any length of time,at best only for very short minutes . It is true plant vegetation and the vital forces are diminished greatly and animal products may have greater properties for a particular nutrient(s) than ,like beef liver high in vitamin D verses a plant.If one has a health challenge the liver may be good to get that person over the hump,but once problem resolved one should go back to the vegan life and juices .The body was not made to eat liver or meats of a daily basis.—Fact>>>>>>>>All meat eaters who consume a diet and all animal products Milk,Dairy Eggs, Fish, All Meats will get soft bones,osteoporosis,and LOSS of BONE ,Dissolving of bones, constant loss of calcium —Research tests have proven this .Strong bones You get from Life Plants >>>>>>>Do not be deceived !!! The research is out their . Kevin’s guest Apparently lives in California I happen to know many areas of california are affected by thing(s) like micro wave cell towers and other unseen forces affecting humans,air,water,Land ,Plants,Animals so what one may think by taking meat one feels better (short term) it could be due to an unknown environmental factor or a move far away that may or may not be the cure.One thing I know for certain when in doubt Gods way is the Best way and it does not get better than that.Which brings me to another point the way the world is going especially GMO”s really were massively released in the ENVIRONMENT back in 1995/1996 AND HAS FOREVER ALTERED our foods that you buy at your local ORGANIC HEALTH food shop and probably by now is or is in the process of being spread thru environmental influences into your LOCAL ORGANIC FARMERS MARKET where you and your family will buy your produce from,thanks to the evil companies like MONSANTO AND ARCHER DANIEL’S MIDLAND amongst others. OH yah And the New World Order. >>>>>>>RENSE.COM AND BRASSCHECK TV.COM

  78. RW says:

    What’s Wrong With Meat?
    Maybe this article can help shed some light on the meat eating choice? It could give you a better idea of what eating meat does to your health and what happens to the animal you eat before it dies.


  79. wendy green says:

    hi kevin! interesting. i too have had issues with my memory…words escape me.

    and i too have ventured into eggs, because we buy them to feed to the dog…but they make me sleepy. once every month or so, i will eat sardines…simply because i “feel” like i need them…but they too make me sleepy. i have to take a nap.

    i take a b12 spray everyday…but still problems with memory.

    i agree with her on some level…my raw food diet seems to effect my memory, not in a good way…but have not found a suitable animal food that doesn’t slow me down. do not like the idea of fish oil capsules…would rather eat the fish fresh…but my body doesn’t like it when i do.

    hmm…what was i saying…??lol

  80. Misty says:

    Kevin, i have talked to so many people like this, and many warned me when i went raw, but i wanted to experience for myself.
    i enjoyed listening to her and really respect her sharing.

  81. Sharon says:

    I highly respect Susan. I’ve bought numerous copies of her very well-researched book for gifts. If Susan got off the vegan diet I’m sure it wasn’t because she just felt like eating meat. She knows the science. I’ve never seen more of the science gathered together in one book. I can hardly wait till Monday now to hear more!

    Food is really important for health but so is staying away from EMF’s, good circulation, good digestion, toxic metal removal, etc.

    For those of you who didn’t read her book, Susan had some very serious health issues before turning raw vegan. She resolved these issues quite nicely but I’m guessing there were still some residual issues with the liver (heavy metal overload?) that led to digestive issues (B12 deficiency and severe protein deficiency). Just a guess.

    I’m looking forward to the new book. Dr. Bass is a pretty sharp old guy.

    Maybe the issues could have been resolved with eating cultured or fermented foods and using supplements but maybe not. Waiting till Monday to find out what she tried….

  82. Paul from Oz says:

    Wow, I wasn’t expecting her to say she was back into eating meat.

    Just when I was feeling settled and clear about my vegan / 80%+ raw diet, now here’s another idea to come to grips with and think about!

    I believe firstly that we have to listen to our bodies, and that the ideal foods for any one of us now may be different to what they have been or what they will be.

    Secondly we are all different, and maybe some of us are better never having meat or animal products while others will be better with these included in the diet.

    Thirdly, with or without meat, cheese or eggs, everyone would benefit from a diet based on plenty of fruit, greens, veges, legumes etc. with a little or no processing.

    Thanks Kevin for all these “raw” interviews; I find them informative, challenging and look forward to them every day.

  83. Treeplanter says:

    Thanks, Kevin. I appreciate the diversity of viewpoints.

    I always feel much better, stronger, sharper mind, etc., after eating some cooked wild salmon or free range eggs. I work hard as a farm worker, and I could not imagine being vegan. I thrive on a mixed whole foods diet.

    When I tried raw vegan, I suffered from tooth sensitivity and weakness and spaciness. I only made it a few months.

    I agree with the idea that we are all different, and that there is no one diet for everyone.

    Also, it is not true that to survive in an overpopulated world, we need to avoid animal products. Goats and sheep can graze on grassy hillsides that are not suited for growing crops. Chickens can forage for bugs in orchards, helping the trees in the process.

    Of course, it is wasteful to grow grains just to feed to animals in factory farms. But there are smarter ways to raise animals that farmers have been utilizing for hundreds of years.

    For tolerance and common sense.
    Michael T.

  84. Kathryn says:

    I think that everyone should eat what they feel is best for them. If you feel better only eating plant foods – great, but if you feel better eating animal foods – also great.

    There is so much change going on right now and each person will have to decide what helps them feel better during these changing times.

    Great show!

  85. Mina says:

    Vitamin D is an issue of Sun exposition!Nothing to do with raw vegan food!

    Look at the comparative anatomy – our teeths, our saliva, our physiology, our intestinum… all indicate WE ARE VEGETARIAN:

    Sad, sad … the ignorance!

  86. KAREN BEATTIE says:


  87. ArlaHawaii says:

    This is very interesting. It takes some thoughtful consideration.

    For instance, my pain tolerance is extremely high, so much so that I can go to the dentist and not take pain meds (euwwww!) My great dentist said, “We are all wired differently” This sage advice has carried me through several journeys.

    Moderation and health are so important. Listen, and respond to what your body tells,(sometimes whispers) to you.

    Maybe we are all entering a new place in the universe.

    Aloha from Hawaii!

  88. Eva says:

    Eating meat creates density and as the world seems to be moving faster some people will cling to what is comforting and that’s fine except for the creatures being eaten. The world is evolving to a high plant diet as she stated and some people can handle more light than others, no big deal. I notice that if a person has a lot of stress and live in a city their body may want to maintain homeostasis and eat in a way that supports keeping an acidic condition thus more meat and dairy. I would not trust what comes from a Whole Foods Market as real nutrition no matter how much it cost or what it says on the label. But lifestyles may want that. The best food is that which you grow yourself even if it is in a bag or jar with sprouts. Without knowing the amount of sea vegetables, algae, sprouts etc. that she was consuming and the rest of her stress levels we truly don’t know if it was the vegan diet that made her sick. Best of health to her and I am looking forward to the day that we don’t need to have food be a social issue for anyone else but our own body!

  89. Mark Brend says:

    Great interview.
    The answer my friend is blowing in the wind of common sense.
    The only difference between us today day and us 1000’s of years ago is the mass processing of food.
    Therefore, all food is ok*, unless it has been over processed.
    *Common sense caveat: eat raw fruit and veg 85% of the time, eggs and fish (not bottom feeders) 2 times per week (10%) and other stuff 5%.
    Back this up with a high grade supplement twice a week.
    High as much exercise, as you can, in to your daily lives ie gardening, playing with the kids etc
    Job done!

    w w w . I n s p i r e d B y D e m a n d . C o m

  90. Amanda says:

    Why are we all sitting here calmly listening to someone talking about animal-based research as if it is the unswerving truth. It is unscientific and illogical to rely on animal-based research. We are not mice! For goodness sake! Logical humane research is great but to repeatedly trot out statements based on animal research is wrong in on so many levels.
    Also, on why people would go back to eating meat (Susan Schenck), I would never want any animal to be slaughtered simply to (maybe) keep me healthy. Sorry, I simply don’t believe there are no other options to try.
    On a more positive note, I enjoy the Renegade Health Show enormously. Thank you!

  91. Silvina says:

    I had a similar experience!
    Battled severe fatigue for over ten years until I went to a traditional Chinese doctor who told me I had to start eating red meat this is when I realized where all my health issues were coming from. Also, by accident realized that the fish oil was amazing because when I started taking it my hair, and eyebrow scarcity would start correcting itself after about two weeks – specially the eyebrows and lashes.

  92. As to the question: “why doesn’t she just take vitamins?” (instead of eating meat)… the fact that she would need vitamins should be enough evidence that vegan is not sufficient.

  93. Nadja says:

    Thank you so much for this very truthful and honest opinion. I love knowing that you will share all information. I have been following a raw diet for several months and absolutely love the energy I am getting from it but recently I noticed my nails have become brittle and I keep getting mouth sores. After researching it I found both are often linked to a deficiency in vitamin B12. I had some blood tests done and my dr has recommended that I start eating red meat again or take a supplement but I have to choose one or the other. As much as I hate the idea of having to eat meat I hate the idea of being dependent on a supplement to be healthy even more. I believe that if I am showing signs of deficiencies the diet is not right. So I will try to incorporate very small amounts of meat and in the meantime will supplement until I see results. I feel good about 80 % raw and 20% cooked food including some meat. We should all do what feels right And not be ashamed of it. Being in alignment with yourself and what you feel should always be a priority.

  94. nick says:

    Vitamin B12 is in the soil if you eat wild raw food or not wash your fruits and veg. it is not issue. Otherwise there are plenty of supplements. Her memory was probably the B12 deficiency but to say you have to eat meat for B12 is just not true there is also spirlina and chlorela. Vitamin D you can get from the sun between the hours of 11 am and 2pm but we must be aware that you need @ least 2 days for it to be absorbed into your skin so you can not use soap all over your body (Just the areas that really need it) Otherwise you will not be getting the vitamin D. If you do not live in an area that gets a lot of sun in the winter especially then use supplements.

  95. Cindy says:

    This was a great show. I was a strict vegetarian & then vegan for a few years, & I had the worst health ever during that time. I ended up with horrible neck problems that kept me homebound for 4 years because my bones & muscles became very weak. I added back meat & dairy to my diet, & my neck has slowly improved, but I still have lingering problems 9 years later. I think one of the main reasons why some strict vegetarians & vegans are able to maintain this style of eating for a long time is because they take a lot of supplements. If you have to take that many supplements, there’s something wrong with the way you’re eating. I didn’t take any supplements when I was a vegetarian & vegan, which is probably why I had many health problems.

  96. Janet says:

    This was a very interesting interview. I’ve only been a vegan (mostly raw) for about 5 months since I was re-diagnosed with cancer. The first time (9 years ago) I quite the SAD and ate vegetarian over half of the time with the other part organic chicken and salmon and venison that my hubby shot. At the time I didn’t know better so I did the whole surgery, chemo thing. Now that’s it’s back, I went vegan plus following several other natural protocols. My last test said that my cancer markers are back to normal. I’m reading the China Study and although I’m not far enough along to make an intelligent argument, it seems to be the largest study around to support a vegan lifestyle. However, I am interested to hear more about her studies (but I could NEVER eat raw eggs or meat – it would have to be cooked). Looking forward to hearing more of the interview.

  97. Estella says:

    Thanks Kevin for remind us to be open minded.

    I also heard an interview with Aajonus Vonderplanitz; he advocates eating raw meat and raw dairy and that left me even more puzzled! I look forward to hearing the rest of the interview with Susan and draw some conclusions.

    I believe we need to listen to our bodies, which is a skill we unfortunately lost. I don’t think we are as cookie-cut as we would like it to be AND I think most of it is our own perspective; it is how we perceive the world. As such, everything, including the foods we eat have different effects on every single one of us. Our minds play a huge role on our health.

    Thank you!

  98. lisa says:

    Well, for starters, meat is NOT a source of vitamin D. I wonder, was she ever taking vitamins? I humbly believe that it is IRRESPONSIBLE not to take vitamins no matter what your diet is. AND, would she purport to say that men should hold women property just because there is a history of such? Evolution is grand.

  99. nancy says:

    yeh! but on the other hand, when you look at the human’s teeth and digestive system, they are different from meat-eaters’, so…

  100. Mary says:

    Ditto Chris above at #20; except it has been 24 years vegan and 2 years raw vegan for me; and, instead of mistakes, I would say experiments. 🙂

    Even though I have never had a close vegan relationship in my 24 vegan years–husband, children, family, friends – none of them are vegan or vegetarian – I have never doubted my choice or felt the urge or need to eat animals or animal products.

  101. iam says:

    very simple, You can find any excuse to eat meat if you have the desire to do so. Like wise for going veg. It is all in desire and your belief system. One can’t strictly rely on Science, they can not even acknowledge and come to grips with the ghost in the machine. The real problem is, it is all fear and greed and survival at the moment. The Oneness is beckoning you back to the One. Think beyond the body. You are so much more. Come to grip with your thinking first. That is what got you into your mess. Disciple and rhythm will take you far.

  102. Carin Balint says:

    Hi Kevin, thank you so much for giving all of us the opportunity to comment on different point of views.
    I agree with Dr Haley that her diet was not sufficient but would not go as far to say because she was vegan …if you are a meat eater and only eat hamburgers or a vegetarian and only eat pasta or a raw foodist and only eat carrot sticks your diet will not be sufficient. I am sure as a doctor you have seen many deficiencies in many different diets. I myself was dying on a standard American diet and I am now thriving on a vegan diet.
    Dr. Gabriel Cousens stated that animals have astral souls the same as us and eating them is like eating ourselves… However plants have eutheric souls and are the closest things to God because they were here first and by ingesting them we elevate our frequencies and they become a part of us and exchange information. I try very hard not to judge people but must ask who can really justify murdering any earthling …Some people say animals are here for us to eat and it is Ok to slaughter torture and deprive them of their young …some people say women are subservient and if they are not obedient they should be harshly punished or killed and some people think that if a girl is born they should destroy her life…some cook their own dog for dinner and some teach their boys not to cry …etc…. My common sense tells me inflicting pain upon a living creature is just so far away from love and what is this world lacking so much of! If there would be more love… as airy fairy as some may think that sounds so much suffering would be alleviated and our babies would have a safer planet to grow up on. There are many paths to heaven and many paths to good health…in my personal opinion is to achieve that without inflicting pain upon others and if one way does not work then you try the next peaceful way for a peaceful planet and peaceful life.

  103. Lynda Hartley says:

    Thank you, Kevin. I congratulate you on your open-mindedness.

    As long as there are people on this planet, we will always have debate on what is the ‘right’ thing to eat. In the developed world, we are lucky to have the luxury of choice!

    When I am asked about changing to a Raw Vegan diet, I always suggest that people get a baseline blood test before they make any dietary changes.
    Many times these will show up deficiencies in different areas, and where corrections need to be made.

    HEAVY METAL POISONING is a major issue and it is absolutely essential to get tested for this if you are having any kind of health issues.
    Raw Vegan is a stellar diet that works for me but all the raw food in the world is not going to cure you, if you are full of heavy metal.

    I believe we should be gentle with ourselves and not get fanatical or hung up on being 100% anything when it comes to diet. And yes, I do think it is okay to use supplements to correct deficiencies.
    What we would do in an ideal world, and what we have to do when we have polluted our bodies and our planet for years, are unfortunately, two different things.

    One love and peace to all.

  104. Jae says:

    I understand her choice and need to make changes to get her body back into balance. However, her health issues, like many vegans, was self induced by a failure on her part to make sure she got essential nutrients that she needed. In the vegan world B12 is at the top of the list of things we all need to supplement with! Vitamin D is becoming a serious problem for all people, no matter what they eat, because as a society we have started avoiding the sun more and more. Omega 3s are essential and found in hemp products, flax seeds, walnuts, and pumpkin seeds (to name a few) and unlike fish, vegan sources are free of mercury and other toxins. There is strong evidence that we are not supposed to eat animal flesh naturally. If we where, we’d be able to rip raw flesh off an animal with our teeth and eat it with no concerns about bacteria or other things that could make us sick. Animals that are designed to be able to do this have high acid stomach acid and relatively short intestines so the can destroy pathogens and eliminate the meat quickly. When we eat animal flesh it rots in our intestines releasing toxins into our bodies, and we need to cook it to kill the pathogens that can make us ill and possibly kill us! Yes some people do eat raw meats, like the raw fish in some sushi, and if you do, you are opening your body to parasites, bacteria and viruses that can make you quite ill and possibly dead! Veganism is safe and natural and healthy, but you have to educate yourself and make sure your getting the nutrients your body needs. If you can’t get enough of something through diet and lifestyle then you need to take a good quality supplement to stay healthy. The issues she encountered I have seen in people who eat a SAD, high in overly processed foods, lacking omega 3s with an excess in omega 6s, not getting enough sun and not getting enough of any essential nutrients! I eat no grains and I am 100% vegan, 80% raw and I get blood work done every year to check my levels and I have no deficiencies!

  105. Bina says:

    First of all I wondered if Kevin has ever seen this blog http://rawfoodsos.com/ ? She has basically proven the China Study is inaccurate.
    Sigh, I thought I had the answers. I thought this was it. I was ready to be a life time vegan. I am constantly watching health information/ raw food vids etc. It seems that more and more people are saying that humans require meat. Well just looking at the human digestive system should tell you we were made to digest more than just veggies. I mean the argument that there are all these muscular healthy mammals out there that are totally vegan, is not a good argument because there systems are totally different.
    I am afraid to eat anything animal because I’m afraid it’s toxic. Bacteria, toxicity from the environment, acids etc. I live in a place where it is impossible to get grass fed organic beef or any other, also no free range eggs. Way behind the times. But I have a lot of the stuff she was speaking about. Low B-12, Vit D deficiency, not feeling so great all the time as I expected, and I have cleansed! I am not an ethical vegan either, so I would eat the meat without issue, I just want to be healthy.

  106. Don Wiss says:

    Nancy in #79 writes “when you look at the human’s teeth and digestive system, they are different from meat-eaters’”

    I see this argument all the time. It is so silly. We don’t have carnivore teeth as we developed tools some 2.5 million years ago. Until we developed tools we were not meat eaters. Before that we ate insects. The high protein and nutrition that they provide would have been needed for us to have developed into such brainy creatures. Now one could argue that 2.5 million years isn’t a long enough time for our bodies to have adapted to meat eating. But if you take that position you had better completely avoid Neolithic foods, even more so than the paleo eater avoids them.

    And where does the digestive system argument come from? No one claims we were ever carnivores. We are omnivores. And if you compare our digestive system to a carnivore and a herbivore we are in between, but much closer to a carnivore. Here’s a chart that compares the three:


  107. Bina says:

    Nick # 74 Spirulina and chlorella are not bio-available sources of B-12. Also not washing eggies is not wise even if organic becasue they still use “organic” pesticides which are not necessarily safely consumed. Plus bacteria from others handling, I wouldnt rely on it or sauerkraut. It may work for some but not everyone. I personally had the shots.

  108. Sandy says:

    I cannot subscribe to this idea that we are all different. Certainly we are all in different states of health for reasons of upbringing, life-style choices etc but we are all of the same species and each species on this earth has its own individual diet (unless reliant on humans of course – when they seem to acquire all our degenerative diseases) Physiological evidence – especially the great length of human intestines compared to the very short ones of carnivorous animals-so the transit times are quick and the flesh does not putrify in the system) and also the fact that they have an enzyme in their stomachs that prevents purines turning to urid acid and humans do not. All this indicates that we were ‘designed’ to eat a vegatarian/vegan diet. All our nutritional requirements can be met on a plant based diet, so I suppose it has to boil down to choices and belief systems. For myself, I believe we are meant to be the guardians and keepers of the earth and all our fellow beings. They are not ours to eat, wear, experiment on or exploit and while we do we will never know peace or reach our true potential.

  109. Carol says:

    Consistently with the raw fooders, I am hearing that when 7 years rolled around, their health decreased significantly. What do you attribute this “magic number” to?

  110. taylor says:

    Jameth Sheridan talks about this sort of thing on the Raw Food World Show:


    I think maybe she should have tried cooked lentils or, if she needed animal protein, farm fresh eggs! Eggs don’t require killing or hurting of any animal because chickens are going to lay eggs regardless of whether or not they are eaten.

    just my opinion!

  111. Amber says:

    I think she probably was lacking DHA on top of everything and that supposedly can affect the brain. The DHA in fish comes from algae because fish eat the algae. Skip the middle man and find a DHA algae supplement.

    There are omega 3s in flax and chia, but very little. The 1+ gram listing on the package isn’t accurate. That’s what you start with. It has to be converted (from alpha linolenic acid in the seeds) in the the body and the conversion rate is 5-10%. You aren’t getting much. There’s always way more omega 6s in there, and people shouldn’t be eating so much omega 6s.

    I’m wondering about something. You know how they say you aren’t supposed to heat flax and fish oil because it destroys the bonds in the fatty acid chains? Then how is cooked fish supposed to be a good source of omega 3s? I know it has vitamin D and protein, but I wonder how it could be good for omega 3s unless you’re eating sashimi. Any thoughts on that?

    I’m not quite ready to go vegan, and I tried vegetarianism for a while. I didn’t feel good anymore, so I gave it up. That doesn’t mean I’m giving it up forever; I just have a lot of research and learning to do before I can embrace it again. I’ve never really been a big meat-eater anyway. When I was little, if my mom made steaks and pasta, I’d just eat the pasta. I ate very little meat most of the time, but I still ate one too many refined carbs.

    I’m happy that Susan was able to find what works for her. I bet she could be vegan and have her memory too if she kept up on supplements. Maybe not everyone has to supplement, but perhaps she’s one of those that needs to.

    Low b12 might not even be related to her diet. It probably is, but her body could also be lacking in intrinsic factor and preventing the absorption. However, if she wasn’t supplementing or eating any b12, then it probably was her diet.

    As for raw, some foods just need to be cooked. People will say that spinach, chard and beet greens are good sources of calcium, but the oxalic acid in them binds to the calcium and makes it so you don’t absorb it. If you eat these things raw combined with something else calcium-enriched, that calcium will also bind to the acid.

    You won’t get the calcium from these vegetables no matter what, but cooking them at least makes it so the acid won’t bind to outsider calcium if you decided to pair the foods with a glass of calcium-enriched almond milk.

    Another thing cooking is good for is making certain foods more digestible, like legumes and grains. I never used to eat legumes because they made my stomach hurt, but now I soak them for 24 hours with apple cider vinegar (to break down the phytic acid) and THEN I pressure cook them. It makes a huge difference.

    I wouldn’t say cook everything and eat nothing raw. Cook some things and eat some things raw, and pay attention to your food pairing. Timing enters into it too. Don’t eat raw spinach within two hours of drinking fortified milk of any kind.

    I’m just rambling, though. I don’t claim to be right about everything either 😛 But I would definitely like to hear your thoughts on cooked fish as a source of omega 3s, considering that the bonds break under heat!

  112. Treeplanter says:

    A word of warning to those vegans who believe in not washing their veggies. Yes, it’s true that the bacteria in soil have B-12, but there are other nasty things in soil such as parasite eggs. If you consistently eat dirty veggies, you will most likely end up with a bad case of intestinal worms.

    Please, vegan people, wash your veggies and take a B-12 supplement.

    And regarding the argument that humans do not have the anatomy to eat meat, that depends on what kind of meat. Obviously, we don’t have the ability to kill large animals with our bare hands and teeth. But we certainly can pick up rocks and eat the bugs we find under them. In some “primitive” cultures, insects have provided about one-third of the diet.

    As for myself, I don’t eat bugs. I let the chickens do that for me, and I eat the eggs.

    Michael T.

  113. Tiff says:

    I always take krill oil (Dr. Mercola’s), and still consider myself a vegan. I also take Dr. M’s B12 spray. My first instinct…I’m not buying the idea that we have to eat meat. Will keep an open mind, but I don’t forsee myself doing it.

  114. Yves says:

    I thank you for this new episode of the renegade show and to me it makes total sens too, to have to eat some meat and it must be all in proportion too. I learned in my study about nutrition that when you eat meat, one serving of 4 oz is enough and that is what i did and felt really good with applying it in on myself.
    Like Dr Mercola says, some people do better with meat and some without any and there is basicaly a whole spectrum which goes from eating meat regularly to no meat at all and each person needs to find out what works best for them. I believe some people eat just too much meat and processed food, that’s where things go wrong to my opinion, not about meat but quantity and quality. Raw fruits and veggies should be the majority of what one eats but some quality animal products and cooked foods also have their benefits if eaten reasonably.
    I have seen many vegans and vegetarians being unhealthy in my life aswell as heavy meat eaters. I think the trick about nutrition is to obey the simple rules of uncooked food for the main part and then add a bit of meat or cooked whole food or both if necessary and not stay stuck into a fixed idea, especialy when one sees that their health is not optimum or deteriorates.
    I worked in the nutrition business for many years and seen many people and have never seen a receipe that fits all in this area. There are basic rules and each one must adapt them to their own situation.


  115. Joan says:

    I am rather surprised at Susan’s change of attitude…I personally don’t believe God intended for man to eat the animals, but to be a caretaker of them. I eat mostly vegan but don’t get caught up in percentages and try to eat what makes me feel content – primarily raw fruits and veggies plus nuts and seeds. We are responsible to ourselves to do what is best for optimal functioning.

    Thanks, Kevin for all you do to share experiences of others.

  116. Rae says:

    I confess I didn’t read all of the foregoing comments, but I know that Frederic Patenaude recently wrote an excellent article about why eating raw (or cooked!) meat and other animal foods is not the answer for those who feel veganism is destroying their health. He also has videos of his 85-year-old mentor Albert Mosseri and a much younger woman who is a 100% raw fruitarian on his site. Of course, there are many famous raw food experts who enjoy incredible health, many of whom you have interviewed in person, so why don’t you ask Susan how she can account for their success with veganism?

  117. Judy H says:

    I would love to be a 100% raw vegan, but I too have discovered that I do need some high protein foods in my diet. As for humans being created to eat just raw vegetation, this is true. However, after the flood of Noah’s days a lot of things changed and God gave mankind permission to eat the flesh of animals. I still try to eat mostly raw vegetation but I also eat eggs, cheese, fish and occasionally poultry because I feel healthier when I do. Oh yes, I also regularly get my blood tested to make sure I am maintaining my nutrient levels. Thanks Kevin and Ann Marie for all the great information you provide.

  118. Andrea says:

    Kevin, it would be helpful if you began the interview with her credentials (other than she wrote a book). As referenced in some comments above, there are many research studies that negate what she’s saying about eating meat; and supplementation of B12 and Vit D is recommended by all the health researchers and practitioners we follow (and you were responsible for us looking into Vit D supplementation – thank you!)

  119. O'cean says:

    My transition to vegetarian then shortly after to raw vegan 5 years ago has produced more health benefits than deficits for me. I have had no cravings for animal products since beginning this lifestyle. I am 26 years young. For the last year I have eaten almost exclusively frutarian. I grew my own vegetables and fruits feeding the soil blue green alge. No supplements.

    I noticed a sudden health decline and blood deficiency when my life became stressful and I moved from a rural to city atmosphere. I began consuming mostly cold raw foods from the fridge. The air, water, and energy field around me is polluted. This has resulted in many imbalances. Manic episodes, sleep deprivation, anemia, and the complete inability to digest foods…bloating, gas, misery. It is hard to pin point the exact cause. I intuitively feel stress wrecked my health because it shifted my being entirely.

    From the research I have concluded no diet or eating lifestyle is perfect. my approach is quite universal at the core. I have to choose for myself and resonate at that time. I have to believe 100% in what I am doing for it to work for me. Perfect health is a stable fantasy to entertain…however, the universe is in constant flux not stable. All living and non-living creatures contribute to this existence. It makes logical sense that my health will change, flux, ebb, and flow. The only protection I will have is through pursuit of both intuitive and scientific knowledge.

    Currently I am 80/20 raw-vegan with sub-lingual B-12 daily. I am rotating different raw-vegan whole sources of EFAs each day. (1oz) I am managing my stress through meditation, massage, and acupuncture. My health is starting to soar again. I feel it physically and intuitively.

    I will am going to be testing my blood soon. This will be the true reveal. I myself cannot give up on raw-vegan lifestyle. It works for me when I am balanced mentally, physically, and spiritually. It is crucial to feed the soul and the body.

    Thank you Kevin…very interesting topic.

  120. Cirelle says:

    Hey, what’s a good supplement for B12- can’t find any on your website

  121. imlivingandlearning says:

    To #82 (Sandy)

    The point is NOT that humans who appear to NEED some animal sourced foods to achieve/maintain baseline health aren’t of the same species as those who thrive exclusively on plants. Come on! And yes, one can see a practical “design” in the digestive system of homo sapiens that indicates the design for a plant-based diet. HOWEVER, that is not the basis of the “difference” between individuals that is being referenced.

    Even though one can see how the human body was “designed” to function AND maintain itself in perfect balance and repair, one can also see that CURRENTLY there is a HUGE fly in the ointment. Congenital birth defects, and even neo-natal CANCER should alert you that CURRENTLY, all is NOT working as DESIGNED. I give these two examples SPECIFICALLY lest anyone be tempted to imagine that everything manifesting as poor health resulted from actions individuals CHOSE or things over which they had control.

    Nevertheless, the conclusion is the same—the option to work exclusively from the tenet of what may truly have been ideal “by design” has been supplanted with the necessity to work with what IS.

  122. Susanne says:

    Bravo….what is still not mentioned is the work done by Wm. Wolcott talking about metabolic body types. If you are a fast oxidizer you will get very tired from a high carbo diet..it will make you very acidic! where a slow oxidizer will make you alkaline and will absolutely make you feel wonderful. Being a Fast myself I have to eat more greens and protein to function…as much as I love fruit I have to be very careful that it is all in balance and eaten is a certain way. I have studied health for 40 years and prefer raw as much as possible. I love your site, thank you for you honest reporting, I love you guys!!!!!!I’m 58 and feeling wonderful.

  123. tessa nisbet says:

    i have been happily raw vegan except for using local raw milk here in s.baja mexico – however i have been unable to regain weight lost during a long 18 month period dealing with parasites…i had hoped raw vegan would bring it back…after listening to patrick timpone at oneradionetwork.com interviewing aajonus vonderplanitz and his primal diet i decided to try his program…he says that fat controls toxicity in the body and to detox we need to gain fat lst then detox….100% raw yet focusing mainly on dairy flesh food and eggs using mainly green juices 4 x day instead of any other supplementation – i am on day 7 and no comment as yet except that i feel occasionally nauseous from all the animal fats and read that he felt nauseous the lst 3 weeks on this diet himself…aajonus was given 3 mths to live 33 years ago with a case of multiple myeloma a deadly form of bone and blood cancer – he experimented and cured himself with this diet – has a phd in nutrition –

  124. Ron Strauss says:

    Dear Friends,

    I am a nutritionist and practitioner of Natural Healing. Many years ago I wrote the introduction to the book We Want to Live By Vonderplanetz. For 8 years my wife and I ate raw meat, raw fish, raw chicken, raw cheese, raw cream, raw milk, raw butter, raw honey (unheated), some veggies.

    Many people did well on this Primal diet. Many did not. 10 years ago or so I abandoned that approach and have since done a fully researched study of the raw vegan diet, delving into all the principle advocates in the field: Brian Clement, Doug Graham, Victoria Boutenko, Tonya Zavasta, Paul Nison, Dr, Fred Bisci, David Wolfe, Matt Monarch, Dr. Gabriel Cousens, etc.

    After a lot of study, interviews, Yahoo groups, testing and experimentation what I now bring to my clients is a very carefully worded dietary approach:

    “A maximally vegan, maximally raw, minimu-optimum diet ADAPTED to the INDIVIDUAL”. Although some make a contrary argument I believe there is very obvious anatomical evidence that we are not omnivores, certainly not carnivores. I also believe that most people on the above-worded diet will eed to supplement B12 and D-3. There is nothing new in that. Eating egg yolks (or even the entire raw egg) can certainly be a health enhancing practice.

    However, even the organic eggs you buy at Whole Foods (cage-free and antibiotic/hormone free) are very often not very healthy unless the chickens are Pasture-raised and allowed to eat their natural diet.

    Stanley Bass is wonderful. He experiments. He thinks out of the box. He ate raw meat for a time and perhaps still does.

    Food taking is not a dogmatic activity. It should be approached with a lot of discrimination and a willingness to shift and change with the body. The single principle that is perhaps the most significant, most proven and yet and least discussed is “systematic undereating” – also know as CRON (calorie restricted optimal nutrition).

    Go back to Westin Price’s work or John Robbins book, Alive at 100, wherein Robbins analyzed the diets and lifestyles of the various cultures that regularly produced centenarians. None wer exclusively vegetarian and none were exclusivel raw. But they did not overeat, their water and air was pure and they were very active and outside a great deal.

    So there are many factors. I feel that sprouted grains, some lightly steamed veggies on occasion, and the consumption of quality raw eggs and organic grain-fed raw butter can be beneficial for many people.

    And finally, how can any diet be fully evaluated in terms of deficiencies or excesses unless one engages a regular form of cleansing. Gabriel Cousens embraces a 10-day juice fast every 3 months. Richard Schulze advocates cleansing the liver, colon and kidneys every season (4 time per year). After all, we live in an absolutely poisoned world.

    There is a lot to consider. I try to teach people how to think for themselves and make decisions based on their lifestyle, their geography, climate, emotional disposition, and other factors. Being alive is quite fascinationg isn’t it!

    Ron Strauss
    Radiant Life Healkth Center
    707-928-4170 / rstrauss@mchsi.com

  125. Steve says:

    I admire her honesty and I think that if a lot more people spoke honestly then we would learn a lot more about health. There is far too much entrenched thinking in the health world and far too much misinformation. Many people are also blinded by their belief systems. So if they are vegan or raw they won’t even consider any evidence that they may be wrong.

    Some of the comments above just try to show meat is bad by adding a link to an anti-meat site. That is hardly reasoned debate. I think it is fairly well proved that vegans and vegetarians get less chronic disease than meat eaters and are generally healthier, but each individual is different. What is good for one person isn’t good for everyone.

    A B12 deficiency can be very dangerous. Some people may be genetically pre-disposed to need more of it and maybe they can only get what they need from animal sources.

    Many people have the argument that they are ok on raw and/or vegan, so everyone else should be as well. This is clearly nonsense.

    I would rather listen to the views of a person who has an open mind than with someone who has a closed mind. To me it seems common sense that different people will thrive on different diets. That’s how the species survives.

    If there is one set of people that I wouldn’t take advice from it is the people who say ‘this is the ONLY diet that works and you should follow it’. They are often well-meaning, but, in my opinion, misguided.

    By the way, I’m a vegan. But I am open to learning about health even if some of my beliefs turn out to be wrong. I would rather find the truth about health rather than assume that I’m right.

    I’m about to get my blood testing done, so will have a better view if what I have been doing for the last 20 years is right for my body. That is the objective way of looking at things.

    Thanks Kevin for bringing us these great videos and insights into health. I love the way you cover all topics and allow people with dissenting voices to speak. We can learn a lot from these people. But we have to keep an open mind.

  126. Rich says:

    The Bible says that Adam and Eve ate fruits, granes,nuts and vegies. Lets follow our first diet. God created us and gave us the best.

  127. Michelle says:

    Its amazing ,the power of the mind..and what fear can do!!! . I will remain Raw vegan. Thanks guys keep up the good work.. : )Michelle

  128. Martin says:

    I recently ordered Susan Schenck’s book, “The Live Food Factor” from amazon.com and started reading it last night. I was hoping to use this book to help fuel my motivation to get on, and stay on, a 100% Raw Vegan diet verse the sugary junk food vegetarian diet that I’ve been on for years. I’ll probably still read the book, but my enthusiam has been dampened in light of the author’s change in beliefs.

    I too have experienced memory problems since approximately 2004, and attributed it to major stress in my life, and a shift from a healthy organic Vegan diet, with a high percentage of raw food and regular exercise of the preceeding 14 years, to a sugar filled junk food vegetarian diet with no exercise.

    I still hope to find the strength to make a shift to a 100% raw food diet, and stick with it, with hopes that it creates the changes in me that I need. For me, eating meat is not an option.

    I do wish Susan tried harder to find other solutions to her nutritional deficiencies, and was able to share a vegan based solution.

  129. Landon says:

    for this i would say it was a deficiency in DHA, i had similar experiences, took some dha supplement and it worked amazingly, im vegetarian btw

  130. Hello Kevin,

    thank for the honest interview. Everybody should find his own diet and lifestyle. In reference to physiology to the muscle, which is meat, I have difficulty to understand that you will get advance to get eating meat. Eating raw meat is maybe a possibility, but it is very dangerous in reference to parasites living in tissus of healthy looking animals. Since I learn about Parasitology with http://www.TwiP.org I am very happy to be vegan. It seems that everybody forgot this part of life with worms, viruses, fungus and bad bacteria.

    Dr Jérôme, in France

  131. susiequeue says:

    sounds sensible to me

  132. susiequeue says:

    Cirelle, Marmite is a good source of Vit B12, I copied from their website for you

    Vitamin B12 15.0?g
    (1500% RDA) 0.6?g
    (60.0% RDA) 0.3?g
    (30.0% RDA)
    (RDA = Recommended Daily Allowance)
    Per 4g serving: 9 Calories, nil fat, 0.44g salt
    Per 2g serving: 4.5 Calories, nil fat, 0.22g salt

  133. VeganForLife says:

    There is no evidence that her memory loss was due to diet. Memory loss is due in large part to the large amount of microwave radiation with which Americans are bombarded perpetually.

    This is another case of a person misinterpreting the data and not supplementing the vegan diet with B12 (sublingual is best) and another case of a vegan listening to an ill-informed doctor.

    Susan is another California health vegan; no health vegans stay vegan. She is missing ethics. She is just another bourgeois, self-centered American Idiot.

    I’ve been vegan for over 30 years. Please do not listen to Susan. She is poorly informed on veganism and way off the mark on this topic.

  134. Se says:

    She is partially right but not. Basing her researches on a type of historical information that is not fully backed up is not the best idea. We don’t even know how long ago we exist on this globe is exactly, and it keeps changing by finding newer and newer evidences so how would we know exactly how & what the eating habits of the first humans really have been.

    Besides that I believe that your body tells you normally how to combine your foods and what to eat. I think we all have just forgotten to hear that voice deep within, sixth sense or whatever you call that is giving us the clearest answer.

    I myself eat wild salmon, some cooked quiona or buckwheat, and kefir eggs in my baked high fiber breakfast cookies and a dot of raw milk in my tea.

    I am a semi-lacto vegetarian that I am doing about 25 years now and feeling just perfect. I do not eat any other meat. I however feel this is the best feeling for my body and turned out every food from my diet that bloated me, including if your stomach is empty and do not eat regular meals can make that too.

    I however think if you know your food then you can eat healthy if vegan too but you have to know what contains what to keep it balanced and make sure not over acidify your body as that is one important key in a healthy diet no matter what kind it is.

    Good luck and research finding your answer too! 🙂

  135. LaShawn says:

    Very Informative Interview! I would like to know what kind of fish oil did she take? Was it Carlson Brand or another brand, and what kinds of meat should we eat, to avoid B12 deficiency?

  136. Alkalize says:

    She should look into Dr. Young research. It will confirm her frutarian findings but will shed some light on her vegan confusion.

    Imho, she was just missing EFAs and alkalizing salts which is common issue for people on high fruit diet.

  137. What were her blood work results before she became vegan?

  138. sheryl says:

    I am a fruitarian and in transition to becoming a Breatharian. I do not go to doctors & think that all testing is just hypnotic suggestions to make people believe there is something wrong with them that is not. I have the most alert mind when I don’t eat at all. Plus a foggy mind may not be from food it can be from lifestyle choices, relationships & what past experiences they are detoxing. People need to stop thinking that everything is caused by food. I realized this when I ate the same thing for years & went thru many detox experiences – what I was eating was okay – it kept my body clean enought so I could release past human experiences. You can drink orange juice only for every day of your life & be the healthest person on this planet – it has to do with your past human creation & what you are releasing of how you are feeling.

  139. Carina says:

    EXCELLENT interview, Kevin – thank you! I can’t wait to hear the other installments of it and I look forward to reading Susan’s new book when it comes out. I was vegan for most of my life – because I have looked for the ‘healthiest’ diet and because I have always loved the idea of causing as little harm to other creatures as possible. After I finally achieved eating what I thought was the holy grail of healthy eating – a raw vegan diet – after a year and a half I was confused and disappointed when I started getting more tooth decay then I ever had in my life that just continued getting worse. I scoured the internet for answers and all I was able to find within the raw vegan community were similar stories and no answers – except to make a superhuman effort with dental hygiene. I did, however, find within the work of dentist Weston Price, examples of teeth being healed using the animal foods consumed in areas of the world where tooth decay was minimal to non-existent (places where the refined foods of civilization had not yet arrived). And these people did not even brush their teeth – ever!

    Now, because of my ideals, I would RATHER be vegan. But the vegan community has not come up with a real solution to this issue. I definitely don’t buy the “you just need more cleansing” approach. I came across several accounts on raw food forums where people did just that – and then lost all their teeth. No way I’m doing that.

    I think Gabriel Cousen’s work with diabetes is great. I wish he (or any other raw vegan “expert”) would tackle dental decay as it’s a problem that nearly everyone has – and it’s one that’s serious enough to keep some people from being able to follow a raw vegan diet successfully long term.

    I definitely still believe that eating as much raw food as possible has great health benefits – but I am definitely open-minded now about whether that diet, for me, will be vegan or not. If anyone experiences great health on a vegan diet – raw or not – I think that’s wonderful. Not everyone does. By the way, I did suffer from a vitamin B-12 deficiency as well several years ago and had to give myself daily shots, which I thought was awful. I now do not miss taking my B-12 supplement on a daily basis.

  140. Yes, finally, someone who is really getting to
    the core of this. It’s super what she’s doing
    and I’m emailing her to get her new book when
    it comes out. I know hard core vegetarians that
    have adapted raw meat into their diets and are
    doing fine now. To me a total raw vegan diet might not be for everyone and it’s certainly not for me. And, finally Susan Schenk is talking about this. Looking forward to her book. Will look up Stanley Bass too, this is quite informative and I appreciate this and all the great interview you and Anne Marie are doing, Kevin. Lorraine Lott

  141. Truly-Jen says:

    Dr. Roger J. Williams wrote about “Biochemical Individuality”. Basically, two people can be two different metabolic types. It would definately make sense here…

  142. What works for some does not always work for all!…I work with African nuns here in Pennsylvania. These women can’t get over how much “stuff” we Americans have by way of food, clothing, and shelter…not to mention health care, yet we are a “sick” nation. They, back home eat only food that they grow or raise…mango and banana trees in their back yards…While people in their country keep dying of malaria, the rate of death from cancer is “much” lower than ours. I belive it’s consuming “indigenous foods” that keep us healthy…the closer they are to their natural state the better…A northener, like myself shouldn’t be eating tropical fruits, although I love them, but eating apples and berries…OH…by the way…they all have the most beautiful and perfect teeth…straight and white…no braces…believe me…I’ve asked…

  143. Lancelot says:

    Tell the presenter to clean up his appearance.He looks like a slob.

  144. Tandi says:

    I decided to find the research studies that she cites in this interview to see for myself how legitimate these claims are.

    First, mice are NOT fruitarians and it should be obvious that putting mice on a fruitarian diet would cause them to react to this situation the same as they would to food scarcity, no surprise. They eat grains, nuts, seeds, insects and roots predominantly and need the nutrient balance contained in these foods for health. The foods they naturally choose are much more calorie dense than fruit.

    I personally have seen individuals turn to a raw food diet and continue to exclude more and more food groups and types of food and then when they run into deficiency blame the vegan diet. This has nothing to do with veganism, it has to do with avoiding so many food groups that you run into deficiency. I don’t believe that fruitarianism is a healthy way of living and fruitarianism and its inherent deficiencies should not be used to condemn all plant based diets.

    These studies on mice and fruitarianism were not properly designed, they were never peer reviewed or published in any reputable journal. He simply states that he put them on a fruitarian diet and watched to see what would happen. He also randomly added or changed fruits that he fed the mice. Just because some ‘Dr.’ decides to conduct a research study in his basement on some mice does not mean his study or conclusions have any real value or significance.

    The claim of the mice in the study becoming cannibalistic does not prove the occurrence of any vitamin or mineral deficiency. Mice become cannibals in the wild when food is scarce, it is a common thing for them to do in a variety of situations. Obviously giving them low calorie fruits in place of their typical high calorie nuts, seeds and grains is going to induce the same cannibalistic behavior as food scarcity in the wild, this proves nothing. This also has nothing to do with humans or human nutrient deficiencies.

    It is unfortunate when someone becomes deficient and develops health problems, however I believe in this case the ‘cure’ of her severe memory problems is over exaggerated. Deficiency can be handled in many ways, she chose animal foods but that does not prove that if she had added some quinoa, millet, legumes or other foods the same would not have happened. My biggest issue is that she uses poorly designed and poorly conducted, obscure studies on mice to prove erroneous claims.

  145. Angie Smith says:

    I think $4.50 for a dozen good eggs is cheap. Here, local pasture-fed eggs are $6.00 per dozen.

  146. Julie L. says:

    I liked what Joyce Braun had to say. I’d like you to interview T. Colin Campbell, too, and hear what he has to say. Certainly he has kept learning since his book came out.

  147. Kristen says:

    very interesting first interview. I started on the raw food movement after year and years of chronic painful indigestion. I’ve read so many articles and listened to so many of the shows on this site and there are so many different views on what is right and what is wrong. The conclusion i’ve come to is that you have to do what works best for your body. Despite all being human we are not all identical, nor do we have the same lives, stress levels etc. so it only makes sense that each of us is going to require different things nutritionally. I eat a 2/3rds raw diet, namely fruits, nuts, seeds and berries. I eat green foods maybe 3 times a week. This form works well for me. I feel healthier than i have my entire life. I don’t eat meat anymore for personal and spiritual reasons.
    But, if eating a little meat works for her, great! 😀

  148. Radames says:

    Great series of interviews!!! Again, just more great info to take into consideration and further complex the answer to optimal health. There are so many studies and opinions on the opposite side of the spectrum…what to do now??? I however, personally think that food is actually the least important factor to our optimal being. I believe that there are a lot of factors, mostly spiritual,and mental that affect our health. And since most of us lead such an unbalanced lifestyle and are so out of touch with our food, vegan or non, that it is no wonder it is affecting us the way it is. I think that our anscestors were much more spiritual and in connection with the universe than we are currently and this made them able to eat any “diet” and have positive results. Not to mention cleaner environent and product…..can go on and on but… just my thoughts. Again, thanks for the interview and for being open enough to let the guest express their true experiences.

  149. Ida says:

    Hi Kevin,
    First I disagree with her that I bodies were designed to eat me. I’m going to get Biblical here, but first man only ate plants and played with the animals. For me no longer eating meat has helped me a lot. I do eat only salmon on occasion (some cultures do not consider this as meat. I will say that no all bodies are the same and you have to choose what is right for you.

  150. Jennifer says:


    I just want to say that I love ya for doing this series!!

    I can relate to almost everything Susan has expressed about “brain food” and memory just seeming to vanish!! Especially short term memory and things that you are trying to instantly trying to recall. Susan is the first raw food advocates I have heard to even mention this fact. I was starting to wonder if I were one of these rare people that had this symptom on a high raw vegan diet.

    I want the same route as she first egg yolks then adding in good high quality fish oil. The fish oil helped within days and when I combine the egg yolks with the fish oil I can function pretty well. I also use a B-12 patch once a week and take a D3 supplement. I have tried goat’s milk kefir and raw goat’s cheese but I have to be really careful or otherwise the “cheese “especially will trigger allergy responses like runny nose and sneezing. I guess the cheese is made through a different process than the milk kefir.

    My brain seems to also prefer some high quality cooked vegan foods as well. I feel more “grounded” and better able to focus when I have some of these foods in my diet. Just sautéing some kale does wonders especially in the winter months.

    I keep trying to find a happy medium or balance in my diet as my brain and nervous system seems to need these other type foods but I love my weight and higher vibrational experience on my high-high raw vegan diet. So there has been some back and forth. If I eat too much of the foods mentioned above I can at times even feel sick to my stomach and feel bloated. Just the right balance is what I am searching for!

    I am most grateful for your doing this show and specifically this series!

    Now, I am gonna go and listen to the remaining 3 parts of this series.


  151. “She is just another bourgeois, self-centered American Idiot.”

    Veganforlife, this was a very cruel comment. I too believe that many in the “healthy vegan” movement will return eventually to eating animal products. But to attack those who do, is far from kind.
    Shouldn’t we display the compassion towards our fellow human beings that we as ethical vegans say needs to be expressed towards the animals we ourselves refuse to exploit, use, and kill?
    Just a thought. Blessings to you..

  152. JKVMI says:

    This is not new information. In “When Hallelujah Becomes What Happened,” the author explains the serious health problems his family developed while on the Hallelujah Diet. I think the Maker’s Diet makes the most sense because I believe that God, as a loving creator, gives guidelines as to what we should or shouldn’t eat because He wants us to be healthy. The Bible calls eggs good (see Luke 11:12) and Jesus ate fish. I think God knows more about what we should or shouldn’t eat than all the scientists in the world currently know or will ever know.

  153. i wrote about this on my blog the other day. people who “need meat” don’t need it because it’s magic, they need a vitamin, which they can get elsewhere.

    and i also believe in God, but i don’t believe just because in bible times meat was ok gives us the green light to treat our food like crap and eat chemicals/hormones/additives. God promotes wisdom and common sense, as well.

  154. Leslie says:

    I appreciate her coming “out” of the closet — but respectfully, it seems like she’s going from dogmatism to dogmatism. Her book was a very challenging read for me because, in part, it felt like it was do this or DIE. we get so many messages like this today. The obsessive quality we are bringing to our tables is what is taking years of vitality away from us and our planet.

  155. Nick says:

    She says there’s all this research, it’s all out there folks–we’ve been eating meat for 2.6 million years. If she makes such a pronouncement to such an audience, however starry-eyed this group is, she could at least quickly cite some one thing in support. I, and I would think others here, would have trouble believing that people would be chasing down animals, killing them, tearing them limb from limb and chowing down when for most all of those 2.6 million years we had pristine nature with teeming abundance, so come on, pour forth with all that you’ve poured into, Susan, or Kevin.

    And Kevin, I believe you’d better serve all here qualifying your statement made in another made in another show recently that we now have the greatest amount of abundance ever. Consider that corporations have created scarcity in the hinterlands and damned the river’s fertile riparian zones and herded the bulk of us into cities, the cement thru which we cannot grow food. And where’s the abundance in food crops whose growth is chemically pushed, with no diversity of decay in the soil from other plants, no natural microbial nor mycellial activity–where’s the abundance in faux food? Now come on, both of you!

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