My last post generated this comment by Patrick:
“A bit surprised, I’ll confess. I had you down as a bit different to most of those in the raw/health internet arena, but was wrong.
Nearly everyone seems motivated by making as many bucks as they can, using all the clever psychological tricks to get people to buy … ‘buy now, price goes up next week’ … then doing the affiliate linking to products, after writing up an ‘impartial’ report on supplements.
Supplements are totally unneccessary and in fact can interfere with the body’s ability to absorb the very thing they’re meant to provide. Yet virtually all raw/health ‘gurus’ talk them up and purely by chance happen to sell them. Check out someone like Tim on runningraw.com who demonstrates just what a load of snake oil supplements are!”
I took some time this Sunday morning to gather my thoughts about what Patrick said, please let me know yours, once you’re done reading this…
Hey Patrick,
I’m sorry you’re disappointed. I work extremely hard to provide the best information possible. I also work very hard to allow people to make their own decisions on what they can do to take control of their health. Many people love what I do, some people don’t.
I am different.
First off, most people would have deleted your post to brush it under the rug. I choose to talk about it, because there are some important issues that you bring up. Both of us are right here and let me say that up front.
I never claim to be a guru. Maybe you’ve assumed that I was, but that’s hardly the truth. I am not out for recognition for what I do. I rarely make public appearances and I’m committed to providing people answers to their health questions.
I’ve spent years now studying nutrition and fitness and working with people directly to find out what works and what doesn’t, (just in last year I’ve interviewed over 100 experts to find out what they’ve done for their clients and students that has worked as well)… I’ve taken the “no supplement” road before and found for most people they can’t fit everything into their diet, so for most people supplements are in fact helpful–which I think even for the most healthful… they can help as well.
But regardless of all that… here’s the real heart of the issue.
I need you and everyone else who reads this blog–and everyone else in the natural health movement–to be a team player.
We can’t fight over this sophomoric “which health guru is right” stuff anymore. That’s psychological posturing at it’s worst.
I think you and I and many other people have a similar goal.
If we want everyone to eat more healthy and live longer lives, we as natural health advocates, have to be on the same page at many levels. We can’t attack our own ranks like you’ve done here. It’s a waste of precious time and energy.
We have to remove our egos. The entire body natural health information is more important than your or my beliefs.
We have to stop being defensive.
We have to work as a team.
Your post hardly echoes a team approach.
We’re all here to help spread the word of great health. Some of us have some different approaches. Some of us like supplements, some of us clearly don’t. That’s fine with me. I think there’s truth in many different approaches. The reality of it, is that if you and I were to sit down together and talk, we’d agree on about 90-99% of what each other believes.
I recently was talking to a friend who had worked for Outward Bound. In a strange and ironic twist of events they happened to get a contract to train a group of Monsanto employees. My friend expressed to me the meetings and arguments that the employees of Outward Bound had to try to cancel the contract. He also expressed the militant approach a few of his co-workers took to attempt to put the activity day to a halt. The story was sad in my eyes.
They lost their focus.
Instead of focusing on showing those Monsanto an incredible time in the outdoors and making the experience a life changing event, they spent the time arguing about how they could protest the whole thing. What an incredible opportunity wasted.
How many times have you heard the story of someone finally seeing everything in a new light who was once working for a large corporation that was in some way or another harming people with it’s practices. Don’t you think that small Outward Bound group could have attempted to plan a similar life-changing event for those Monsanto employees?
I think it would have been possible. How many times have you been inspired by nature? I’ve been inspired thousands of times.
So what I’m asking you and everyone else to do is stop fighting. Simply stop posturing and stop arguing.
We’re doing more harm for the greater good by fighting ourselves… which is clear and dangerous disention in our own natural health ranks. A team with some dissenters will never win a lot of games. A team subscribed to a greater good is the team that wins the trophy.
In this case, the greater good is good clean food, clean water, a clean earth and clean minds.
Work with me here. Work with your friends and your enemies and the people who have different opinions to raise the vibration of our thoughts and our planet.
If you spend your time attacking your energy will be eternally wasted.
There are too many people out there who need your help. Get out there and give them what they need. 
Live Awesome!
Kevin
PS. Please comment and tell your friends about this posting if you think they agree OR disagree!
7:13 pm on January 6th, 2008
If someone feels that supplements aren’t right for them, they should just accept that there are as many different opinions about health and diet as there are people in the world. Big deal. I personally am not a supplement user but that is because I cook most of my own meals and go by the rule that the more colorful the organic veggies on the plate, the more nutrient rich the diet. But in this world today, most people are too busy to shop, prepare and even think about their food so in that case, by all means get supplements into your system.
Secondly we have to stop beating each other up for making a living! The fact is there is nothing wrong with networking with the creators and sellers of products that we strongly support and believe in! In many instances I have been introduced to items that I found valuable in my life through affiliate marketing by people I have come to know and trust on the web. I think there is nothing wrong with endorsing something that you believe in and getting paid for that endorsement, especially if it is bringing good into the lives of those that choose to buy the product. I think of it as a commission for doing me a favor. The regular grocery stores sure aren’t doing that much.
That whole mentality as demonstrated by Patrick is nothing more than revealing a belief system that says anyone out trying to make money is a bad person. Whatever! We all have bills to pay and I for one would rather support someone who is paying his bills by doing something he loves and at the same time serving others, than to support someone who hates what they do 40 hours a week and believes money is the root of all evil, so you must do evil to get it. It’s time that kind of belief system around money gets a broad back slap and replaced with a healthier perspective! It’s the only way we will begin to put money into the hands of those that are willing to do good with it, and take it back from those who do much less.
More power to you Kevin! I totally appreciate you and all that you have shared with me over the past six or seven months that I have been aware of you and your business.
8:39 pm on January 7th, 2008
Bravo. This is truth. Well said. Thank you!
8:43 pm on January 7th, 2008
Good to know you’re not a guru. I don’t have to run you over!
8:54 pm on January 7th, 2008
Anger.
It’s what turns people off.
No wonder people stereotype vegetarians, vegans and raw foodists.
We must not act overly defensive.
We want to learn from others and always keep an open mind.
Just my two cents.
8:55 pm on January 7th, 2008
Kevin: I am one of the 65 yoa that has followed your activities…..never knew you were a guru……….but then, I have always thought for myself and have not been a good follower. You have demonstrated that you have a purpose in your life………positive energy and positive influence and information……..allowing others to learn and make choices. How un-guru is that? Actually, it is very spiritual. You cannot reach those that cannot relate to being the best that they can be………not the rightest, greediest, richest, and indignant persons. I like you…….keep it up. The rightously indignant are the most unhappy, hateful, lost and negative individuals I have every met. They may be wealthy though. I am smiling here.
8:57 pm on January 7th, 2008
There are times when supplementation may be necessary to assist someone who has a grave deficiency. Patrick I don’t think you did anything wrong by your posting about supplements you find “essential.”
Funny how people go to their doctors and never question all the prescription drugs that are prescribed. Someone’s getting paid for those, right?
Keep up the good work Patrick…
8:58 pm on January 7th, 2008
1) Finding the best supplements takes time and energy, its so much easer to take cues from someone who knows more than I do.
2) In most peoples diets, even if they eat truly healthily, there may be some “missing spots” where supplements can help. I think this sums it up. Quote: “…for most people they can’t fit everything into their diet, so for most people supplements are in fact helpful–which I think even for the most healthful… they can help as well.”
3) The dog can chase its tail for only so long before it gets tired. Ego is like chasing your tail.
9:03 pm on January 7th, 2008
What a tempest in a teapot!
We are each responsible for our own health and well-being.
As it happened, I was very pleased with Kevin’s recent article pointing out the kyolic aged garlic. I investigated further and then I bought it from my local health food shop – so Kevin didn’t make a cent, yet he provided me with some good information.
I’m happy to find an alternative to the “aspirin-a-day” protocol to thin my blood. When an episode of atrial fibrillation strikes, pooling blood can clot and cause a stroke. But taking an aspirin a day has rubbed against the grain for me.
I avoid drugs, both prescription and over-the-counter. And I do feel that most supplements are a waste of money.”Let your food be your medicine and your medicine be your food.”
But,in my opinion,(that’s the operative phrase here) there are some natural alternatives to big Pharma’s concoctions made from whole foods that serve a useful purpose.
I read about a lot of things,and choose to investigate and explore those that make sense for me and my situation as a cancer survivor.
Wouldn’t it be nice if everyone looked at information in that light?
I appreciate Kevin’s non-dogmatic approach with all his advice and communications. It’s there for us to use or not, as we see fit.
Thanks, Kevin
9:03 pm on January 7th, 2008
As I read both posts, it brings to mind exactly what is happening in our political process these days. America is becoming a divided country and not a united one.
We are all so entrenched in our own worlds with our own beliefs that we dare not go outside our box to see what others have to say.
I believe that overall nutrition is quite important. Whether one uses supplements or not – don’t you think that should be the decision of that individual? Don’t you think that someone who takes the time to learn about health should also be able to determine if they are consuming enough natural foods with enough vitamins each day? If yes, then they definitely don’t need supplements. If no, then perhaps a supplement won’t hurt.
In my line of business which is dedicated to helping people care for their loved ones at home versus a nursing home or other long term care facility, there are many different ways to go about this care. I feel it is my duty to cover many of the bases and let their physicians and other qualified health professionals help make key decisions for them.
I propose letting what is so unique about our country – Freedom – dictate our health choices as well.
Thanks Kevin for sharing this post.
Terri Shearer
http://www.homehealthcarebooks.com
9:04 pm on January 7th, 2008
My own investigation of the human health condition was begun over 20 years ago. During this time I have come to realize, among many things, the raw foods I eat are deficient in minerals values, specifically as soils around the world have had the mineral sources (rocks) removed to protect farming equipment. I also question the overall vitamin content in farmed, including organics, veggies and fruits consumed as raw foods. I for one practice and encourage the taking of supplements to “supplement” was I consider lacking in the raw foods I eat.
9:04 pm on January 7th, 2008
Thank you so much for writing that Kevin–we truly appreciate all you are doing in this world! Thank you!
You hit the issue exactly center on. It is about getting out of being part of the problem, or at least adding fuel to that fire, and instead being creative and part of the solution.
Everyone is perfectly entitled to their own personal opinions and practices. No two people are the same, thank goodness, and nor will their diets be.
I feel this is all a great lesson in practicing non-judgement (which is different from discernment) and respect towards ALL others. We ALWAYS have the opportunity to step into something else, in any moment, if we choose.
What it all comes down to at the end of the day is ultimately healing ourselves and the Earth.
Let’s be our own best examples.
This is our own personal journey, and it is wise to practice gratitude and appreciation for all those who add to our experience, opportunities, and knowledge along the way, whether or not we find their opinions true to our own selves.
Live and let live. We are talking about live foods here, after all
We have such an amazing opportunity in front of us to transform ourselves–let’s use this energy in a productive and loving way.
This is my personal feeling–and whatever you choose to think in response is perfect for you.
Best Wishes,
Andrea M
9:05 pm on January 7th, 2008
From one non-guru to another…amen!
Regarding supplements…unfortunately, not everyone can prepare each meal to bring their bodies into perfect nutritional balance. I work hard to fit in my hour of physical activity each day, but between working two jobs, teaching my kids, running a business and getting physically active each day…well, it’s a challenge to prepare perfectly balanced food.
So…supplements are the answer for me. Besides, I don’t want to find out at 65, when I’m hunched over suffering from osteoporosis, that I should have taken supplements.
For me, the risk is too great NOT to take them.
Besides, my husband and I see noticeable differences in our skin when we take certain supplements.
I think we all need to be in tuned to our own bodies and what works for us.
Keep up the terrific work Kevin.
Michelle
9:05 pm on January 7th, 2008
Your response is honourable to the situation that has arisen and i too think that every opportunity in life can be one of growth, not of accusing each other but rather a coming together to share information and make our own fair choices.
I personally dont take supplements nor believe in them, it is like looking for a miracle in a bottle. Although some supplements may help short term I would rather get all i need from the huge array of green leaves that i consume in my diet. I love the green smoothie revolution.
Rock on brother, it takes huge strength and courage to stand up and speak out like you do and I think it is honourable.
Warm wishes
Dana
9:06 pm on January 7th, 2008
well said everyone,
lets be kind
each has their own path
if you don’t like what someone is doing, don’t support them, but don’t slander them
i think affiliations and networking is absolutely fine and its a powerful tool to get ideas and products out there
if kevin or anyone at his level of knowledge is recommending supplements i’m sure they are of an integrity that they are whole food not synthetic isolated nutrients which could very well be harmful
there is no black or white
that is why we need to be in our own integrity and responsible for ourselves and the decisions and actions we will or will not make
we have a health revolution to undertake for all the masses
kevin is right about our small little percentile fighting over petty issues that are above and beyond the core message we all have that the majority of our populations need
thanks kevin
9:13 pm on January 7th, 2008
Right on Kevin!
I must say that I completely agree. There’s just not enough info out there to say what is the ‘best’ diet and I’ve found that what works for me, doesn’t work for my husband and vice versa. All of our bodies are different and I think that it’s awesome that there’s so many people that are reaching out to assist others in being a healthier, more vibrant human.
We don’t see doctors sending each other complaints like this, they understand that depending on their background, the treatment will be different. An MD will prescribe pharmaceuticals, a surgeon will cut, a chiropractor will give an adjustment and a raw foodist will show them the path to raw food. They could all be right and they could all be wrong for that person! So I believe also that we really need to be working together in this, even if it means working with doctors that prescribe pharmaceuticals, because that’s one more person that may see how looking at the body as a whole a changing diet and the way we think… and switch over and how many more people can we then impact through that?!?!
Thanks Kevin!
9:14 pm on January 7th, 2008
lets call them what they really are….superfoods….why??
because they are super and can support super beingness…
most organic foods we are purchasing unless we are growing them in our backyard…or buying them from a local farmers market or CSA
are not SUPER FOODS nor will they support a super healthy vital being living in today’s challaged environments and stress.
I feel blessed that there are those like Kevin in the alternative health community who have taken it upon themselves to do the research and inquiry to seek out and make available the most vital superfoods and health giving information and saving us the time and energy and research in doing so… I am happy to pay for them, knowing they are simply the best of the best.
With the simple addition of an organic raw greens powder in your morning smoothie….you have done a world of good for your health and over all well-being…and that’s just a greens powder….I could go on and on…
Exploring the world of super foods is a wonderful world…with delicious incrediable health giving gifts galore…
Thank you Kevin for being a leader in offering
alternatives that are simple, effective and lifegiving!
9:15 pm on January 7th, 2008
I am studying to be a holistic nutritionist. Kevin, I appreciate that you need to make money, everyone does. I also appreciate that you don’t think of yourself as a guru. I truly don’t feel that anything you sell is outlandishly priced. Anything I feel that is too expensive or not necessary for me to have, I have the option to not participate in it.
I feel that supplements are important. Even if you cook almost everything you eat and buy all organic food, there’s something else that you haven’t considered. You have to think about the soil. Our produce has gotten less and less nutritious over the years. So now, you almost have to eat all organic.
For me, I buy what I feel I can afford. So can all of you.
Kevin, please keep up all the good work you are doing. I for one, appreciate all of your messages.
9:19 pm on January 7th, 2008
You website isn’t the first place I’ve seen those supplement references and you weren’t selling the products, merely informing people who might be interested. I for one do take some supplements, but I’m very selective. As we age, our bodies become less efficient at either absorbing or manufacturing some nutrients that we need to be at our best. I see no problem with either choice (to supplement or not to supplement). Each individual’s biochemistry varies a bit within the “norm” and each of us decides for ourselves what is and isn’t needed.
I’ll take a wonderful bit of garlic over an aspirin any day.
9:19 pm on January 7th, 2008
While I agree with most of what has been written by other people who have commented, I can empathize with Patrick’s criticism.
On the Web, we are inundated by brilliant Internet marketers who are seemingly trying to offer quality information, but are actually trying to hard sell a product. It’s easy to get frustrated when you may hold the belief that people who are trying to benefit the greater good (i.e. those in the health movement) should not be salesmen as well.
It’s all about forming relationships of trust. I’ve been at your site long enough to trust your motives, Kevin, without begrudging you the need to earn an income. But that was something developed over time. It seems like maybe Patrick didn’t give you enough of a chance.
9:22 pm on January 7th, 2008
I’ve seen this attitude for years in several alternative communities. However hard a leader works, however devoted they are, however much study and research they do to educate themselves and others, there is ALWAYS someone who points to them as not enough, and therefore a traitor to the cause. The issue at hand is to show folks who are interested the many options of healthy living and eating. With the massive destruction of good food sources and soils, this is a mighty endeavor. Keep up the good work, Kevin. The complainer is just another version of the prankster in a red robe and sword.
9:25 pm on January 7th, 2008
This has been coming up a lot lately. It truly is important that we see the natural health movement in a bigger way and that we all work together.
Suppose we use the analogy of a beautiful sphere that is covered in a random pattern of colors to represent the natural health movement. Each color is part of the sphere; some colors are similar (red and pink, orange and melon, etc.) and tend to not be very different from each other. But, some colors are completely opposite (red and green) and stand out a bit when they are next to each other on the sphere. However, they are all part of the sphere and when viewed as a whole they create a beautiful texture of colors that wouldn’t be possible if the sphere was only one plain color.
Okay, maybe that wasn’t such a great analogy, but it’s pretty obvious that we are all working for the same thing–better health for ourselves, our planet, and all the living things on the earth. Fighting and arguing doesn’t move us closer together. I think you are very clear in this message, Kevin, and I’m here to hold hands with everyone else in this movement–creating one large connected circle of love and understanding.
Lots of love to you,
Wendi Dee
http://www.purejeevan.com
9:29 pm on January 7th, 2008
Hey Kevin,
Sure is great that you see the perfection!!!!! I happen to agree that supplements seem necessary but certainly understand the opposing views. Keep up the great work…….
Vegan Bubba
9:30 pm on January 7th, 2008
I believe the poster is correct in his thinking. The only person I give any creedance to is Mike Adams, the Health Ranger.
9:35 pm on January 7th, 2008
Nothing happens purely by chance… yes people sell products that they believe in. If they didn’t believe in the product, they would be hypocrites. What is wrong with having a good feeling about providing products that help people and supporting yourself and family? So what if they make money on them, we all have bills to pay. If you have a problem with people making money on products that help people, then how about if you pay their bills?! Personally, I don’t want to sell products that I don’t believe in. In fact, you can’t sell something you don’t believe in. Your customers will see it and feel it and they won’t buy from you because they will realize you don’t really believe what you are saying about your product. You have to believe in your product.
9:38 pm on January 7th, 2008
You never did address the point he was trying to make. You side-stepped it completely, I think because it was valid. You keep advocating the use of supplements and just happen to sell them yourself and if we ever slick on whichever supplement you are currently pushing, we are sent directly to your company to purchase. I absoluely enjoy your emails, but he is right. Every site I go to pushes something and whatever they push, they just also happen to sell.
9:41 pm on January 7th, 2008
I have found supplements to be necessary for me. I feel better. I would not even be able to move my knees or shoulders if not for supplements.
I appreciate the advise/experience of others. I am not going to get it from my doctor (the other “guru”), who told me I did not need supplements, because I know for a fact that I do. I feel like the snake oil salesperson is the “other” side who says I ought to take a bunch of drugs.
If this person feels that way, its perfectly ok, and you don’t need to defend yourself. He is right too, not perhaps with your individual motivation, but he is on the look out for not getting ripped off. It does happen, frequently. Apparently something you did or didn’t do sent up a red flag for this person.
9:41 pm on January 7th, 2008
I believe we must consume what our bodies need and will accept. I had a Vitality Analysis done and they recommended a warm diet of vegetables not raw. I’ve eaten Sunrider herbal products for almost 5 years and my body has regenerated itself, and now I have more energy and look and feel better than when I was much younger. At 69 I can work circles around the people who work for me who are barely 30. Proper nutrition and exercise keeps our bodies tuned and we have to accept responsibility for our health. Everything I’ve read from you is good for some but we have minds to make a decision wheather its right for us. Its your opinion, which everyone is entitled to. Keep up the good work!
9:59 pm on January 7th, 2008
Seek union over separation
“Beliefs separate. Loving thoughts unite.”
– Paul Ferrini
Our ego focuses on how we are different from the rest of the world. We connect with soul when we experience how we are the same.
Any time you separate yourself from other people or from situations, you know your personality is in control. At such times, shift your perspective to build connection and you will move into soul.
“As a holistic being you shatter the illusion of your separateness and reveal your connection to everything. This empowers you in a way that the ego-driven self could never contemplate.” Wayne Dyer
I received this today from my HigherAwareness.com folks, it is always timely what they send. I was compelled to post. Your response was well done and very professional. I happen to reside on the supplement side, but am open to whatever anyone believes and always want to learn more.
Be Blessed !
9:59 pm on January 7th, 2008
Everyone is right in their own mind, but that doesn’t make it right for everyone. I really enjoyed the way you handled the email Kevin,team up for the good of all. I don’t want to make anyone do anything, but thanks to you and others much like you, more and more good info is getting out to be able to make educated choices.
Keep up the good work and thanks for being there.
10:07 pm on January 7th, 2008
I think both Patrick and Kevin have interesting points to make, but perhaps if each had been a little more gracious to the other, there could have been an interesting discussion rather than what appears to be an unpleasant group condemnation of someone raising an issue.
As for myself, I’m on a journey trying to discover what I can do for myself to make me healthier and don’t know who to believe. I will probably study nutrition and/or naturopathy to make up my own mind.
It is good to remember that when you’re not feeling well, you are a bit vulnerable. At the time when you’re least inclined to read lots of information and analyse it, turns out to be the time you need to be able to do it the most. It can make it hard trying to sort out fact from fiction.
When researching ‘natural’ health sites there is a feeling that maybe this is the real truth vs the medical profession, but the truth is there is little regulation and anyone can say & sell almost anything. The amount of people lecturing on nutrition who have no formal training concerns me.
I think it’s good to be able to have an open dialogue about concerns we have as health seekers. As ever, it’s the way you ask a question, not the question itself.
I think Patrick has a valid point, I too am concerned if someone tells me something is good for me and then wants to sell it to me. (How impartial is that?) How can we be confident that that advice is in our personal best interest?
It saddened me to read the way the response was written. What does it mean to ask Patrick to be a ‘team player’? Is he not allowed to question something that doesn’t seem right to him? I think it would have been more constructive to separate the personal concern expressed from the general issue of the marketing skills of natural health professionals.
I hope we can all feel free to raise discussions (constructively) about anything we are concerned about with the confidence that people will respond kindly.
I heard a phrase recently that goes something like; whatever the question is, love is always the answer.
10:09 pm on January 7th, 2008
From my own experience and research, I know that in a perfect world we would NOT need to take supplements to assure good health. However, if we have any history of taking medications, eating the Standard American Diet, consuming alcohol or other recreational drugs, and exposures to stress and/or toxins in the environment… or even if we’ve simply subsisted on the foods produced by today’s large-scale conventional agricultural industries, then we are most likely deplete in some form or another. Sad, but true.
My suggestion to Patrick would be to have a Nutritional Deficiencies analysis done by Spectracell Laboratories (http://www.spectracell.com/lab/fia5000.htm) to be sure he doesn’t have any himself (most people living in today’s world have at least a few). For the record, I make no money at all by suggesting this.
This brings me to my next comment about making money. I completely understand where Patrick is coming from in being suspicious about anyone hawking a product that they also happen to sell. For me, it’s similar to reading a study touting the benefits of dairy, only to find that the study was funded by the dairy industry. (At least journals report that now.)
However, I completely agree with the person who said it’s about trusting motives, and that typically requires a bit more probing. It might be a knee-jerk first response to think that anyone advocating this or that might also be making a profit from it, but this is not always the case, and I have not found it to be the case with Kevin Gianni’s information.
I, for one, have come to respect Kevin’s opinions. I have come to trust that what he is offering is well-researched information, and he offers it with only good intentions. That he believes in something strongly enough to endorse it does not detract from the message.
A huge Thank You to Kevin Gianni for what he’s doing, and -frankly- I appreciate it when someone in-the-know is willing to share what works for them.
Kevin, I’m thrilled that you included your findings on supplements and that you do all that you do! Please, keep it up!
10:16 pm on January 7th, 2008
I think the key here is that information is presented, and then people are free to make their own choices.
There’s more than one road to success. I think Patrick may have meant well, and could have said the same thing in a different tone, and the message would have been completely different.
I personally don’t believe in taking supplements on a theoretical level. But in reality, due to my uterine fibroids, I HAVE to take an iron supplement. And I take a sublingual B-12 because as a vegan, I don’t think I get adequate B-12 without it. So do what’s right for you. And by all means, express your opinion. But do it with kindness, compassion and thoughtfulness.
I think we’re all trying to help make this world a better place. Let’s not forget to do exactly that.
Nimisha
Toronto, Canada
10:34 pm on January 7th, 2008
Kevin;
I wanted to respond to Patrick’s thoughtand wanted to know what he would do if he was told he had two months to live?Would he spend those two months arguing and debating who said what and
why they were doing what they weredoing or would he appreciate every moment he had on this earth?!I ask this question because 10 years ago I was in a wheelchair at the age of 30 years old and given two months to live!! I had gangarene in my leg and it was travelling fast and then on top of it all I had ulcerative colitis and rheumatoid arthritis. The doctors said that if I did not take prednisone within the next two hours and then start a treatment of harsh antibiotics they would give me two months at the most to live!What would Patrick do when faced with this decision?? My decision?? No drugs whatsoever because that was why I was in that toxic state because the drugs would only deplete my
immune system which is the most important thing in recovering so what to do. I knew the body can and will heal itself if fed with whole food
supplements and that is exactly what I did. I started taking Sunrider whole food supplements which what it does is it firsts cleanses the body then rebuilds the body and then the body can heal itself. With these supplements my gangarene was cleared up in 7 weeks my ulcerative colitis was cleared up in 4 months and my arthrits cleared up in one year and now 10 years later I am still on the products and completely healed with no side effects and people who see me now have no idea that I was once in a wheelchair because of the vitality and clarity and vibrant energy I portray.. How each one of us treats our body is a matter of choice. We can choose to have quality life or choose to be sickly majority of our time on earth..
Helen
10:43 pm on January 7th, 2008
Kevin;
Thank you for doing what you do!
I have followed both of the raw summits and heard a lot of opinions from different people. One thing that I remember from the first raw summit that you hosted, is, that you always focused on staying “neutral” and providing researched information.
Yes, you may voice your own opinion and say what works for yourself but you also point out how important it is for each individual to find out and decide what personnally works for themselves. That is what I always honoured about you.
Now a few words about Tim on Running Raw. He is a fantastic sport and a very dedicated man! I value his success and efforts a lot and his story always inspires me and helps me to stay on my path to a healthier lifestyle.
And I have to add to this, so far all people that somehow crossed my ways since I re-connected to “experiencing raw” are inspiring beings and all of them seem to be healthy, loving and amazing people that respect their own choices and the choices that others make for themselves.
Anyhow, a note on i.e. oregano supplements – they really work. If you don’t believe it, contact the holistic estetician that is listed under contacts on my website http://www.connectwithmotion.com and ask her to send you some “before and after” pics of fungal nail infections treated with oregano oil and capsules (internally & externally) in combination with regular footcare treatments (pedicures). And no, I have neither an affiliate program in place with her, nor do I get a discount for posting this information.
Love and light!
10:50 pm on January 7th, 2008
Kevin, I loved your approach to this situation. Instead of replying in an offended tone, you spoke of open, non-judgmental communication promoting unity and understanding, without curtailing the need for all of us to examine our differences and grow.
On the other hand, Patrick seems to feel disillusioned about unscrupulous marketers and is probably taking out his feelings in the negative letter he writes to you.
Whereas I have NEVER felt pushed into buying anything from you, it is true that some abusers do exist. We do need to develop a sense of discrimination to help recognize the insincere.
Those who promote products that they believe in are entitled to a commission on sales, but Patrick is complaining about a person pretending to give an impartial evaluation of a product, when in fact he is selling it for a profit. I doubt that you did this, but this is apparently one of the things he is upset about.
As to supplements, there is such a vast difference among them. Some are synthetic and can have a negative effect on the taker. Others should be taken under certain restrictions. And there are those that have restored health. You cannot lump supplements into one category and make a blanket statement about them.
Thank you for opening this point up for discussion. And thank you for being you. I think you’re a fine person, and I enjoy reading your articles, even when I don’t agree with everything you say.
It would be wonderful if we could all learn how to express ourselves in ways that are constructive and conducive to making this world a better place.
10:51 pm on January 7th, 2008
I worked at the Optimum Health Institute for about 6 years, where I taught thousands of people about raw food. I worked for room and board all that time. When I moved to Florida in 1971, I hoped to continue sharing about raw food, and started giving talks at a local Wild Oats. AS word of mouth spread, every Wild Oats manager in South Florida invited me to give talks. They were, of course, free, though I had hoped to build interest in raw support groups and eventually a small income. I never had any pretensions of becoming highly paid or a “guru.” Just wanted to make enough to support doing what I did very well and loved.
However, in 2001 it was still too soon in Florida. Although my talks were well attended for two years, I almost never saw the same face twice and never got support groups off the ground. I also was unable to generate any income at all. As a result, after many years of working hard for what I believed in so much, after making contributions to people that I know transformed lives, I was broke. I had to stop my talks and focus my energies on another career to pay the rent.
The moral of the story is that my idealism not only didn’t pay, id undermined my ability to continue making a contribution to the raw food movement. Fortunately, I hope all that is about to change. I continued to maintain and occasionally add to my little website, http://www.RawFoodLife.com, over these years, but otherwise didn’t think of it in “business” or financial terms. It was a service I was offering to share about raw food. Then a few months ago I discovered that without my knowing it, I had created and built a site that is now one of the top sites in the raw foods community. RawFoodLife.com is number 3 or better in most Google searches on raw food subjects – something many businesses find hard to achieve when trying to. And it gets several hundred visitors every day. So I decided to completely update the site, make it look more modern and add some products. Am I selling out now? Of course not. Now I may be able to actually get back into raw food full time, something I cannot do unelss the raw foods community likes what I am doing enough to support it. People vote with their dollars. It is my most heartfelt wish that I can start writing and teaching about raw food again on a full time basis, something I haven’t been able to do for 6 years.
Very few people can afford to make raw food their full time careers. Very few raw foodists, with the exception of a very few so-called gurus, ever make significant money doing this. We do it because we love to, we are driven to share our lifestyle, the healings we have experienced and the joy and spirit that living raw brings to our lives. We need at least a modicum of support to accomplish this. I know of no raw food leaders that think of themselves as gurus (and I have met most of the well known ones in my 12 years as a raw foodist or 40 as a vegetarian/vegan. If I make a decent living writing about raw food, selling a few worthwhile items and sharing my experiences I will consider myself a very fortunate person. If raw food authors and teachers are unable to support themselves, you will not have access to their knowledge and experience, without which the raw food movement may well dwindle and die, only to be remembered as a curious fad. Who wins then? Agribusinesses like factory factory farms, making millions by teaching the world untruths about nutrition, and in fact hiding the real facts about what they manufacture and how it destroys health? Is that what you suggest is better. The deceivers and murderers of children who import deadly, chemically corrupted foods and products from China should make plenty of dough, but not the poeple trying to make things right?
I am not a guru. On my website and in my forthcoming book(s), YOU are the guru. I seek to support people in empowering themselves through knowledge, education and understanding. I hope that you and others find that such endeavors by me and other raw food teachers worth supporting or you may well lose it.
Live Raw,
Robert
(IM: RawFoodGuy)
http://www.RawFoodLife.com
10:57 pm on January 7th, 2008
Patrick brought up 2 important issues: the issue of whether supplementation is necessary (and the possibility that it may even be harmful), and the credibility of information that is being provided by someone who is also selling you something.
I think that it was brave and appropriate for Patrick to share his perspective – and I don’t believe that it benefits anyone to shut down that feedback in the name of eliminating ‘negativity,’ or to shame him for not being a ‘team player.’
If people within the raw movement really want to be supportive, then we all have to be willing to be self-reflective – and to not ostracize those who disagree with what we do or believe.
In fact, Patrick brings up an issue that is really relevant to the state of the raw movement – namely that many of the people who provide information are also making their living from the sale of products.
It makes sense that people who have changed their lives through a raw lifestyle would want to share that information with others, and also financial stability is a good thing
, so why not combine the two together? For example, why not create or import product that will help others in the ways that you were helped?
Because it weakens the credibility of the information being provided when it is tied to the need to sell product.
(here’s an extreme example to help illuminate my point) – for example, if doctors sold drugs as well as prescribed them, could we trust their diagnosis of our problems? could we trust their recommendation for a solution?
It doesn’t mean that some of the information provided by the doctor wouldn’t have merit, just that we would need to be aware of the context in order to make the best use of that information.
I’m not trying to villanize people who make money by selling raw lifestyle products – of course things are not clear cut, and so many people benefit from the information provided by Kevin and others. I am so grateful that so many people are dedicating themselves to helping others become healthier.
I’m just suggesting that, just like any information, it’s important to understand the motivations of the writer as much as possible – isn’t this what we’re asking the general public to do in relation to pharmaceutical companies funding research? Yes, this is a different scale, and no drugs don’t actually help people to heal (unlike raw food!!!), but the principle is the same.
What do you think?
in peace – Rae
11:12 pm on January 7th, 2008
I should add to what I already wrote that I think some people do go too far trying to turn raw food into a business. There are some people who charge several thousand dollars for a seminar on the raw food buysiness. I subscribe to some of their stuff just to see what they are doing. I don’t want to do it that way myself. But here is what I noticed.
First, the business side of raw food has spawned numerous new website. Yes, people ARE trying to make raw food a business. That is a good thing – it spreads the word. I can’t do it all by myself, nor can the big gurus. The more the better – and to get more, it needs to be viable in the real world.
Second, the entire internet, is filled top to bottom with people trying to make a buck, usually with little or no concern for the health and well being of their customers – and in some scenarios, just the opposite. Business is the engine that drives the internet. The power of the internet is that it can be, when uytilized properly, a level playing field because in many ways it is free and fosters so many freedoms. But it needs the negine to keep going and stay ahead of the folks who would try to control it for their own ends, from governments like CHina limiting YouTube to governments like the U.S wanting to tax Internet sales, to corporations that want to track ever click you make and sell it (called data mining) to other companiues so they can try to manipulate your buying behavior.
So again, I have to bite my lip. I personally am a bit turned off by crass commercialism, marketing manipulation and conspicuous consumption. But I am a still a hippy from the sixties…however, after turning 60 myself I have added some pragmatism to my idealism. I hope my website, http://www.rawfoodlife.com, can set an example of how to balance all the free info I provide with a small dose of reality.
- Robert
(RawFoodGuy)
http://www.RawFoodLife.com
11:13 pm on January 7th, 2008
Thanks so much for all of your posts so far. I think these posts from Robert and Rae are well thought and explained.
Remember, this site isn’t all about me
Not even close! It’s about you as well… please keep posting.
And I hope this doesn’t discourage anyone to post negatively about me or what I talk about. That was not my intention at all.
Please, if you don’t like what I do, tell me! I want to hear it… I’m not perfect by any means
(And, of course, I might open it up for discussion, but that’s what we’re here for… to learn, discuss and be better people.)
BTW: I imagine Patrick probably unsubscribed to my list before I posted this, so he may not be here to comment on this most recent comment. If anyone knows him or thinks you might, please tell him that this is here so he can comment.
I will send him a personal email as well.
11:14 pm on January 7th, 2008
What I have found over 27 years in the health and fitness industry is that no matter what you do and no matter how hard you try, there is always going to be someone that finds fault in your approach. I am extremely critical of the supplement industry in my book The Big Fat Health and Fitness Lie, but the truth is the average person (who by the way is not eating a raw diet…not by a long shot) DOES NOT get everything they need from food. In fact, with all the chemicals pumped into the food supply to enhance taste, texture, color and extend shelf life, you get more poison than you do nutrients. Then there’s the government fortification program where they try to pump synthetic nutrients back into the poison food that has been stripped of all of its nutrients from the processing. So for the real person in everyday life trying to stay healthy (this coming from someone who does NOT sell or promote supplements), I am a believer in simple supplementation and I have interviewed hundreds of professionals who concur who are also NOT selling anything. And the last time I checked, we are living in America and anyone who PROMOTES AND SELLS SOMETHING THAT THEY ACTUALLY BELIEVE WILL HELP PEOPLE AND AS A RESULT MAKES MONEY SO THEY CAN PAY THE MORTGAGE, IS NOT A BAD THING. There are plenty of jerks out there selling crap and making a ton of cash off the ignorance and insecurities of those who are trying to find answers to improve their health. Kevin Gianni is NOT one of those people. To the nit wit who wrote that little rant, why don’t you go out and write your own book and create your own website all from just an idea in your head like Kevin did. Then you can make your own rules and we’ll see how you make a living. Reality bites.
11:23 pm on January 7th, 2008
I have always received relevant and useful information from you Kevin.
It has assisted me with insights and a different view that usually give me the needed information to better understanding at deeper levels.
Thanks
Rod
11:40 pm on January 7th, 2008
I think (quality) supplements are a great thing. However, I must say that I was turned off by the way that the price increase was worded. By saying, “buy now, price goes up next week”, it made me feel as though I was being taken advantage of. Perhaps if it would have been worded differently: maybe “introductory sale this week, prices go back to normal next week”, it would not have been offensive to people. I felt as though I was being purposefully gouged.
Heidi
11:41 pm on January 7th, 2008
I was getting really stressed about food and then on the conference call you said “Do the best you can with what you have and where you are.” That was the best advice I’ve ever gotten. I felt a huge rush of relief and instant calm. I went back to eating cooked foods and meat (and french fries!) but with more salads and green smoothies than I ever ate before. The more salad I eat, the less french fries I want.
Kevin, I like how you constantly remind everyone to eat what is best for them. The one constant I have seen between you and other health food names-David Wolfe, Shazzie, Brenda Cobb, Dr. Graham and Mike Adams- is that you have all created a diet that works very well for you.
We’ve all felt like Patrick at some point. When that happens, when we feel unhappy with you guys, it is a sign that we are not doing our work. We are not observing ourselves and our reactions to foods, because if we were, we’d have little time for anything else. Use Kevin (and co.)’s suggestions as a jump-off point and then observe yourself. Eventually, through a process of trial and error, you will be feeling so good people around you will be asking what you’re up to. You’ll have so much data you won’t know where to start. You might think to yourself, “Geez, I could fill website with this stuff…hmm…”
11:48 pm on January 7th, 2008
I think your information is very useful. I enjoy reading your blog and getting email alerts about natural health.
11:51 pm on January 7th, 2008
Responding to Billy’s post “The rightously indignant are the most unhappy, hateful, lost and negative individuals I have every met. They may be wealthy though. I am smiling here.”
I measure my wealth by the health of my body, mind and relationships. I am not interested in righteous indignant wealth. I am however, interested in making a decent buck or two by passing along the best information I have learned along the way, and continue to learn. We are fortunate that we have this medium to share all of our different knowledge with each other. What an awesome and fun way to learn, not to mention meeting some fantastic people too. Imagine if we had to sit in a library and read mounds of books. I enjoy the connection that happens with the people I meet on the Internet, as well as all the great information everyone shares. I feel the best action is to take what works for you and leave the rest. And remember to share the good stuff with as many others as you can.
I’m with ya Kevin (and you too Billy). Keep up the good work! (=^_^=)
12:07 am on January 8th, 2008
I too am put off by self- appointed health experts who sell the products they are recommending. These experts are promoting and are partial (not impartial.) This includes linking to a friend’s website selling the products.
I am also offended by Kevin’s “free” information that is linked to a pay site with a special time stamped offer.
HAPPY NEW YEAR to all, and let’s be a little more honest in 2008, OK? If you are selling, it’s fine, but don’t try to obscure it- realize we are smarter than you think, and slippery marketing practices offend us.
12:22 am on January 8th, 2008
Hey Patrick, You may not know that your fruits & vegetables are on supplements. My in-laws own a large farm and must supplement the soil with liquid nutrients. The plants need them to produce in otherwise depleted soil. If supplements didn’t work they wouldn’t use them. Keep in mind Jack LaLane takes over 50 supplements daily, and is very healthy at 93. I started a multi-greens supplement a few years back. I used to get sick 2-3 times per year every year with colds/flu. That no longer happens thanks to a supplement. Like anything else, there is good and bad. Lumping all supplements together in the same category is kind of like saying that all food is bad.
12:37 am on January 8th, 2008
Kevin, I enjoy your information so keep up the good work. It is a good thing we all have choices.
12:51 am on January 8th, 2008
Kevin,
I agreed with the majority of your reply to Patrick. However, sometimes we need a little conflict in our teamwork. Not even two people can face the same direction 100 percent of the time, even if they’re both sincerely working toward the same goal, as any happy couple will tell you!
If a person within a team feels they’re not allowed to speak up when they don’t agree with the rest, they end up repressing their feelings, and eventually feeling resentful. It’s better to bring up one’s differing opinion, albeit in a non-hurtful way, and work on getting the team facing forward once more. You may even finding you agree with the dissenter! Of course, that would be in a perfect world … lol
I would also like to take a small amount of space to respond to something Rae said above. I’m not sure if you realize, Rae, how much money the pharmaceutical industry puts into getting prescribers to sell their meds for them. Every time a drug store fills your prescription, that information goes to the company that made the drug. They compile the information, and attempt to persuade doctors who are not prescribing their meds into prescribing them, or they reward doctors that do sell a lot of their meds for them. I work for a medical practice that is more scrupulous than most – our doctors dislike the system and believe that if the drug companies didn’t spend all that money on “marketing,” medicine wouldn’t cost so much. Even so, you wouldn’t believe what we get from these companies, and we refuse a lot of stuff. (I know it seems that I’ve gotten off topic – I apologize.) My point is, even the people doing their best to make us healthy obtain rewards for getting us to buy certain products.
I’m not saying don’t buy prescription meds, or distrust your doctor, but to be aware that with every financial decision that we make every day, there someone is trying to influence where we put our money. (For a lot of people, food is the area where they choose to cut their costs. In places without easy access to farmer’s markets or co-ops, healthy food is much more expensive than processed junk.) Getting angry at someone on the internet for trying to sell you something is like getting angry at a TV network for running ads during prime time. It’s just as much your decision not to buy a product recommended on a website as it is not to order a weight-loss program from an infomercial.
Keep up the good work, Kevin.
1:16 am on January 8th, 2008
I don’t see Kevin as a guru. Patrick if you were around for Raw Summit 1 you would know that Kevin presented a broad range of opinions in his interviews which reflects a person who is open minded,respectful and humble enough to let a diversity of opinions
to exist on his site. The interviews are not about him but just getting info out.
Having said that I get concerned about using the word “guru ” to slander or judge someone. It is like using the word “fag” or “homo” to put someone down which is a very homophobic response. People here in this site are so guruphobic that if a real, genuine
guru (and they do exist!) passed their way they would not know it. I find that very sad.
Keep up the good work Kevin and Patrick I hope you find the info you need free from fear so you can make clear decisions and discernments for yourself and others. Judgement of others is often based on fear.
Carol
1:40 am on January 8th, 2008
Hi Kevin, thanks for giving me the info that you do so that I can make a choice as to what works for me.
I was introduced to Herbs & Natural Therapies; in 1990; by a fellow-member of my Golf-club when he suggested that I throw away the antibiotics I was taking for an ear infection; had been on them for 8 days; & take 1500mg. of Echinacea 3 times a day, which I did, & the ear infection cured in 2 days.
I searched the Web for info, & was amazed at what the effect of Enzymes had on the body & began eating more fruit & salads & fresh produce, but I was still feeling a little lethargic; but didn’t have the feeling of “emptiness” or the feeling that “something was lacking;” & I stopped eating the fats on meats, & with further research on the Web, I found out about what Starch does to the body, & I drastically reduced my intake of Potatoes, Rice, Pasta & anything made with White-flour.
My enrgy levels went through the roof, & I now play golf 3 or 4 times a week & don’t notice it, whereas previously a once a week gmae would leave me very tired.
I sup[plemnt with a small Multivit & Mineral daily along with Glucosamine [500mg daily].
I had a Prostate problem back in 1994, & the Medicos; in their wisdom, or lack thereof; wanted to remove it.
Once again I searched the Web & came up with a regimen of Herbs & Minerals & Oils, [ a total of 12 all up] & within 3 months my Prostate problem was resolved, & I have helped a few other guys with the same remedy also.
I guess I should mention that I am 69 years of young [ going on 35 yrs.], & ican jog or run whenever I take the fancy & not run out of puff or collapse in a heap.
My suggestion to Patrick is that he try a decent diet, & don’t eat fatty or starchy foods or anything made with White-flour & give it a go for 3 months & he might feel a heck of a lot better & have more tolerance towards other peoples advice & recommeendations.
Keep well all,
P.S. I have’nt had a cold, or been to a Medico for the past 13 years, it works.
2:05 am on January 8th, 2008
Respecting individual paths and personal truths, can we set those aside momentarily for simple Laws of Nature or facts, especially presented in ways that make us think perhaps differently than we did before. It can be enlightening…
How about just stating that supplements are some of THEE most highly refined “foods” you can get.
Seriously, if you haven’t considered it, maybe consider it… if Parsley or any WHOLE food is stripped of all it’s other 15 or so components so that ALL you are left with is Pharmeceutical grade Selenium, it’s been refined or fragmented. Highly refined.
Then we can reflect on simply if we’re on the path toward or away from refined foods. Toward or away from Whole foods?
No judgement, no opinion, just undisputable facts. The supplement has no inherent right or wrong. If we refine out either element in water, the hydrogen or the oxygen, it’s no longer water, is it? If we need water, taking in an excess of just one of the refined elements is going to be better for us and do for us what the water could not in it’s complete form???
If you wear a size 9 shoe but a Free pair of your favorite brand was available in size 12, do you take it and wear it? You wouldn’t… MORE is not better. Yes, if you had NO shoes you may take them in that difficult circumstance. Make sense? Just think it through…
2:30 am on January 8th, 2008
Kevin- you do put yourself out as a guru.*****”Kevin Gianni is an internationally known health advocate, author, and film consultant. He has helped thousands and thousands of people in over 21 countries though online health teleseminars on living and raw food and abundance, optimum health and longevity. He is also the creator and co-author of “The Busy Person’s Fitness Solution”*******
2:31 am on January 8th, 2008
Hi, Perhaps we can invite Patrick to expand more on his beliefs? He says supplements are not necessary – what is he eating? We are lucky to find really fresh veggies and fruit for sale – but, just how organic is it? Is the certificate displayed? Anyone can grow ‘organic’ vegetables, but they are not necessarily so without proof. I also think the soil is depleted of nutrients and maybe even they are in imbalance. I believe for the very best nutrition you should grow the food yourself, and eat it within an hour of picking. It takes up to three days for a salad packet to hit a supermarket shelf – and look at all those pre-packed Avocados, they are sometimes there for more than a week. What nutrition is left? I agree that one should not go overboard with supplements, but I do think some are necessary. It all depends which country you live in and just how ‘fresh’ is fresh.
2:51 am on January 8th, 2008
Kevin- you do put yourself out as a guru.*****”Kevin Gianni is an internationally known health advocate, author, and film consultant. He has helped thousands and thousands of people in over 21 countries though online health teleseminars on living and raw food and abundance, optimum health and longevity. He is also the creator and co-author of “The Busy Person’s Fitness Solution”*******????????????????????????? What the hell is that about?
You apparently don’t have ANY training or formal education to back up what you talk about.
I have enjoyed some of your teleseminars and would listen to them again, but there isn’t one I’m interested in buying. Not enough hard info.
I’m not interested in being a team player. We are all individuals and have the ability to make up our own minds RIGHT OR WRONG. We are all a bunch of bananas or health nuts– and that’s ok.
Screw Monsanto and everybody that works for them. Your attitude is such a pansy point of view. These people have declared war on the natural world and humanity. And Kevin is whining “why can’t we all get along….” What a wimp!
The only thing we have going for us is our ability to fight. So everyone- keep on fighting. If you can’t, pull that microchip implant out of your ass because you now know its there. At least take off your rosey glasses and see the truth.
2:56 am on January 8th, 2008
I speed read thru the debate and comments and was wondering if we really need vitamins and minerals above and beyond what might be contained in our food supply. Not that our foods are so rich with nutrients, but from what I’ve been made to believe, there is no way that the human body can absorb dead or inert, or whatever you want to call them, nutrients from lab processed chemicals!!! My understanding is that we need to get our nutrition from whole foods.
This is not to say that ‘supplements’ cannot be beneficial. I believe there is a difference between barley grass, greens, etc and vit C, vit D, etc etc. I think that people are kidding themselves by consuming lab manufactured chemical vitamins and thinking that they are absorbing these things. But if Kevin or others wish to educate us as to which ‘supplements’ may be beneficial, I would think that would be of some benefit no matter who is making a buck off of them.
Also, it would be nice if Kevin would reccommend products that are not necessarily sold by the website that was mentioned by him, which would take this disturbed gentleman’s complaint away, perhaps. I mean, if we’re just here to help others, why not mention products that you have no income from?
I was encouraged to find that 2 of you letters came from those who had eaten Sunrider (www.sunrider.com) whole foods and had great results from them at their advanced ages. They apparently will sell to anyone who goes to their website at wholesale and one can use the code 1235523 to order I believe. They may sell some ‘vitamins’ in their company as well but they are compounds rather than just a generic vit C (ascorbic acid) that is the base of most of these companies. But why use vitamins at all? Even if the soil is depleted, lab made minerals aren’t going to do anything but cost you money! Thanks for your efforts….
3:06 am on January 8th, 2008
Hi Kevin,
First of all I want to thank you for all the time and effort you put into keeping us all informed and up to date. I have been into health and nutrition for the past 24 years and rely on experts like yourself to help keep me on track. I also know how difficult it is to convince others to follow our beliefs when it comes to health and nutrition. Nutrition is a personal journey that we all have to experience on our own.
Keep up the good work, We love ya!!!!!!
3:12 am on January 8th, 2008
I like your post Kevin. In fact I liked it more and more as I read on. Thank you for inviting me to contribute.
‘Supplement’ is pretty wooly a category anyway as some are food concentrates – ground flax seeds and dried barley grass powder for example – and some contain chemicals such as aspartane. I wonder which ‘supplements’ Patrick was reacting to.
As for us business people selling stuff – that is how we survive! For inspiration from nature, I hope of the kind that Kevin writes about, do look at my blog: http://www.thinkingblossoms.com
reading it is free. Of course I’d love to sell you my book,consultancy and workshops, but, like Kevin, I give a great deal for free, deliberately, willingly and for sound ethical reasons. I suspect that if I, Kevin and the business people who read this blog make money we will spend it differently from Monsanto.
warm wishes, Judy
3:34 am on January 8th, 2008
I’m not sure you can write off Paul’s comments as “ego”… What he’s *saying* is he’s surprised and hurt that your approaches differ. Of course he regards his own approach as “better” and “cleaner”, otherwise he wouldn’t have it and he certainly wouldn’t cling to it.
That he’s missed the point a bit, however, is not in question, and what Kevin is saying here is extremely important. Not that we all agree on the details (there are as many approaches as there are those approaching, no?), but that we work together for the benefit both of ourselves and of others. There is no “one size fits all solution” for working for the greater good – If there were, it would have been applied aeons ago. It’s a one on one thing that is not “taught” so much as shared. As says my friend, Alice Howell: As within, so without.
My ha’penny’s worth.
4:01 am on January 8th, 2008
I think there is room for all of our opinions. I personally do not take supplements and have not for the last 7 years since becoming a raw foodist. If I thought or felt like I needed to take something I would if for some reason I couldn’t get enough in my food. I am very in tune to my body and listen to it’s language. I feel it won’t lead me astray. As long as we point the finger at another we have 4 pointing back and we seem to separate from others. This is not going to help us live in harmony on the earth. I think we can all agree to disagree because we all have our personal opinions and we can’t judge for another. Allowing for differences in us all is good.
My 2 cents worth.
In Bliss,
Dixie
4:37 am on January 8th, 2008
Well, I do agre with Patrick…and he didnt argue, actually.I am not an American but from Europe and living in China. You depend too much on suplements…and wonder WHY – when Nature did supply us with everything we need for a good health condition…
6:13 am on January 8th, 2008
There are many roads that lead to health and the roads are different for different people. We are all genetically, physically and spiritually different and it is necessary sometimes to try one thing and then another to find what is right for US. Be guided by your inner wisdom, listen to everyone and do what you feel is best for you but never knock what works for someone else because even if isn’t the best method, it may be a detour to the right road.
6:41 am on January 8th, 2008
WOW!!!!
At least this topic generated some feedback. I have only skimmed through the posts, 61 so far, but will have to read your post (Kevin) and the replies properly to be able to respond meaningfully.
I’m still on your mailing list
You undoubtedly got the hard end of the culmination of a few things with other websites, so please accept my apologies for slinging it at you so forcefully. Quite possibly if I hadn’t posted then, as I read your article, I never would have and so this discussion wouldn’t exist and life would be more mellow.
As I said, little time now, but I’ll do my best to write my thoughts more fully, rather than just batting off with a few impulsive lines, in the next couple of days.
Patrick
7:12 am on January 8th, 2008
Kevin, I totally agree with what you said.
I am glad people like you give feedback about supplements. There are so many ‘bad’ ones out there on the market. At least, you give us a bit of insight on what to chose IF we chose to buy some.
And as you said, let’s save our energy for better purposes than just fighting about who is a guru or not and wether taking supplements or not. There are more urgent and important things to accomplish in our world today. Let’s all work together for a better place.
Keep it up!
Anne
8:12 am on January 8th, 2008
Some simple but oft forgotten truths:
People are free to:
1. read or not to read
2. agree or not agree
3. click or not to click
People are free to:
1. give
2. receive
3. offer what they believe in and
4. receive for doing so
in short….to choose. Weh-hey! Hooray! Thanks Kevin- for continuing to research and share your postive options!!!!!!!!!!
10:14 am on January 8th, 2008
I am impressed by your attitude. It is a good thing you bought this out in the open.
.
I also feel that you are making money
Almost all the health advocate sites I regularly visit like Mike adams and Dr. Mercola(yours too and many other raw foodists) have an extremely strong online business running. You guys could easily be millionaires.
But that does not make you bad. Why do people(like this particular reader) think that for a person to be “truthful” social worker he should be a non-profit organization or a “poor” man who has no materialistic desires at all.
I want to open a hotel and I want it to be the “best”. That is organic, locally produced raw material and the best oil and the the best hygiene.
I would love to make a profit too.
Now why I want to open a hotel is because in my godforsaken city there isn’t even one hotel that server good food(upto the standards one sets after being health conscious).
Me and my friend are seriously thinking of opening a restaurant so that we have a place to eat. I am sure that there are enough of health concious people that will keep the restaurant full. I may open up and make it a chain(decentralized). Because I see a great business opportunity.
The same goes for all these health advocates
I would like rest this case with one example. If a person giving a course on how to fish, that is telling people how the right fishing rod and the right bait will get you a good catch, there is nothing wrong if he starts selling baits or fishing rods which will give the best results.
Change is contant in any business and it is either up or down. So anyone getting into a business should always try to go upwards or else he will end up going down.
I think this is what the “health advocates” try to do.
Also most of these health advocates do not trust the mainstream companies to really “change” and we have a track record to prove that. So I would mind if any of these “health advocates start producing or procuring or selling the “good things” they are telling us to have.
What we have to realise that we have to be greatful to these health advocates who have been fighting our wars.
10:24 am on January 8th, 2008
Kevin, I loved your response to that critical post. It really is about being positive and looking for what we all can agree on to have more health, happiness, abundance and joy in our lives. It looks to me like you offer a lot of free health information and really care about helping people. I am not a raw foodist, vegan, or vegetarian but I admire the lifestle and could see myself going that route after I stop competing in natural bodybuilding. in my book THE ORGANIC BODY and on my website I talk about how we need many natural health teachers to find our truth and I have the links and reccomendations of my favorites. Natural Health Advocates deserve to get paid for their work just like the rest of the world but in the end you can’t buy MOTIVATION or TRUTH for any price we have to find this in ourselves. Just like in my favorite story The Wizard of OZ we already have the courage, heart and brains inside us to do and be anything. When the student is ready the teacher will appear. Also i visited your Turkish swordsman page-very nice! LOL
Sincerely,
Ian Kelley Chef/Bodybuilder/health Advocate
10:35 am on January 8th, 2008
I would say that we can trust to nature and that she is providing us with all we need. So the best thing we can teach others is the balanced livestyle respecting natur’s laws, and more better in a direct connection with the nourrishing environment. There is the fear that we might need something if we dont follow these ruls completely, but instead of think that we can buy back our mistakes from marketers let us go closer to the source of live by seeking for fresh and hole vegetables around. It isn’t possible because you live in a town, or it is winter and all is frozen around ? Let’s trust in naturs abillity to store essential nutriments to overcome these winter periods and go on like I do to build a wintergarden and in the while it’s done eventually scrape the snow and the ice.
Go on Kevin, you are in the right direction.
11:18 am on January 8th, 2008
I don’t have an ax to grind. I’m just trying to get healthier. I don’t agree with your defense because I don’t think you need to defend yourself. The fact that you posted his opinion and left it up shows you’re not posting only what you like and aren’t afraid of a difference of opinion. Those of us who have been with you even for a short time know you make money on what people buy. So what. Those who makes money by lies, deceit and greed usually don’t last long anyway.
As shown on this list there’s been an overwhelming response that’s confirmed by your audience that your integrity, honesty and desire to serve the best interest of those who listen to you presents a win, win deal for all.
For me, I respectively submit that a recognition of his disagreement would have been enough. People that have been around you a bit know you. They also likely know the poster in question in a much shorter period of time.
One who’s in for the long haul,
Randy
11:50 am on January 8th, 2008
Kevin, there is so much yet to learn about raw food and health, and your readers’ comments and criticisms should be seen as opportunities for you to open your mind to new ideas and to question the ones you already have, just to make sure you are still following your true path. Rather than becoming defensive in the face of criticism, see each comment as a new opportunity to reorient yourself, to reconsider your position. If you still feel strongly about your beliefs and methods, then explain to us why.
You will never please everyone with your answers, but one thing you should NEVER do is warn that to criticize you is to not be a team player. Your “team” should be full of people who are not afraid to ask the tough questions and who push you to think. If you prefer a team of “yes-men,” you will stop growing as a person. Don’t do that, Kevin, or you will not be the “different” person you say you want to be.
I believe Renegade Health is an asset to the raw food and health communities and is a celebration of our right to question and critique the status quo within the health industry. I see Kevin as a team player in the field of health. By the same token, Patrick is a team player making sure that leaders in the raw food and health communities have true knowledge and integrity. Kudos to both of you!
12:23 pm on January 8th, 2008
For most people supplements are in fact helpfull,sure for most people medications are helpful. Which I think even for the most healthful….they can help as well,have to disagree here. Most healthful,guessing our list would vary, mine is short.One Example of persons i do not believe supplements would help, Dr. Douglas N. Graham
12:53 pm on January 8th, 2008
Food is and should be medicine.Many people feel that supplements are not necessary. Thinking about this, one would have to eat perfectly and have access to a clean food source and a a huge budget to purchase the quality food from that source in order to supply what their health and body needs to avoid desease and to function at an optimal level. Eating perfectly is not really possible of course and this is where supplementation, even done occasionally, comes into play.
Additionally, the food and water system is very political in this country(globally as well). In many underserved areas one cannot even find stone ground wheat bread(not really whole grain by the way) anywhere in the store. Eating organic would be unknown. Eating only raw ( not for everyone as we are bioindividual) is not heard of)However, a good multi vitamin supplement to take up the slack would be beneficial here.
There is a vast amount of sometimes conflicting information out there about nutrition and health(One place is the new food pyramid for instance!)It is really difficult for people to decipher what is good information as well as good sources of that information.
The criticism and outrage if you will, needs to be directed to the upper levels of power not to the downward strata of the grassroots.
What I mean is that criticism must be directed to the antiquated medical and healthcare models as well as the political and corporate run food system in our present society.
Deborah
12:57 pm on January 8th, 2008
Kevin-I liked Raw Summit I, thank you, I never paid for it. I like your newsletter. Thanks, I never paid for it. I like your new photo too.
Patrick- it’s disgusting that we live in a culture where everything seems to be for sale! I hate multi-level-marketing schemes that exploit friendships for sales!I lost a good friend that way because she can never have a conversation that doesn’t involve sales talk! But I can think of many raw foodists who seem to be giving more than they are receiving and I am thankful for their efforts.
1:03 pm on January 8th, 2008
Myself don’t believe & use supplements. Organic raw living whole fruits, greens, veggis, seaweeds would provide all & the best nutrients our bodies need.
Thank you, Patrick, for bring up the supplement issue. I agree mostly with Kevin about we need to work as team to be natural health avocates.
Many Thanks to Kevin for providing all these useful health information.
1:47 pm on January 8th, 2008
Replies are likely to agree with you, or at worst pick a few nits. Patrick’s reply would be far more interesting. Failing that, a few points– no, ‘we’ are not a ‘team.’ There’s nothing to win; we go on living or (and?) die.
As for gurus, Jack LaLanne is the most trustworthy at the moment. His track record at 93 is clear. All the wannabes wannabe him, though not for free.
But belief? Too much belief for sale in North America, too many buyers. Information wants to be free– the only wannabe I trust. And belief conveys no info whatever. So, as one person said, whatever. Whatever sells. Whatever the sacred Market bears.
On open minds: GK Chesterton said he opened his mind as he did his mouth when eating, to close it again on something solid. Buyers in the health biz walk about open-mouthed, gathering flies and notions. Those with mere evidence will be shot. And so it goes.
3:05 pm on January 8th, 2008
Maybe the accuser needs to take a suppliment for his brain.
I wonder if he gets paid for doing a days work or does he do it for free?
3:07 pm on January 8th, 2008
I hope I can make this short, but for the past nearly 37 years or so, I’ve been predominately raw food. It’s been wonderful to be able to go to these different websites to “glean” from all of them. It’s not for me to find fault with any of them, but to cherish the fact that we can do exactly that – stop by and enjoy, and then click and close out when we’re done.
I purchased one set of your Raw Summit tapes and am grateful to have had the experience with which I could also share with others. I can choose not to purchase any more, but at least the option is mine. My choice is not to do supplements, but if down the road I think I will, I can!!!
Our personal health care is being threatened to the poiont that we may have nothing to say about it. We already no longer can get true “raw” almonds [however at this writing, I think there is a site where they can be purchased, but they are shipped from another country - this almond controversy would almost take a book to explain!!]. That’s just the beginning. What if we no longer would be able to choose anything about our health care? This is bigger than we are being led to believe, and you are right Kevin, we need to support one another whether we agree with what is on a website or not. We are still able to make choices – click on and off – at least we can choose the path we want to take – but for how long??
3:29 pm on January 8th, 2008
I, too, recongnize that our alternative health advocates advertise products they believe in in their FREE letters to us. I appreciate that. I appreciate it for the fact that it gives me a CHOICE on where I can then go and purchase or not purchase. I can even search out the best prices if I am interested. I also believe in very few if any supplements, but I also know from my own experience that there are times when supplements are necesary. I have an autistic grandson whom is becoming normal just from getting him off of sugar and giving him supplements that are helping his body finally receive the nutrients that it was not receiving in the foods his is given at home and at school in the SAD diet. Boy, am I thankful for supplements. It is changing this boys life. However, I am anxious for the day when his body will start taking for itself the supplements out of the foods that he eats. I guess what I am saying is that through a lot of prayers and experimenting we are finding what is best for my grandson but it is not necessarily what is best for grandma. We each must listen to our bodies and decide with what information we each have or what information we are led to what is best for our body.
3:35 pm on January 8th, 2008
HI,
I have been subscribing to Kevin’s site for a short time. I enjoy his honesty. It has been refreshing to say the least. He allows for dialog. He allows for differing opinion. Look at how diverse he is. I only wish more people in government were as open minded as Kevin. He listens, he evaluates, he understands what ultimate health is. I really respect that. I am relieved and excited that someone has a ‘no holes barred’ approach to lifestyle. He gives us much information, for free, with much study and research. He gives us lots of choices by the people he interviews. There are a million ways to be healthy. Really, there is! You can do it through whole foods, being outdoors with nature, with people you love and that love you. There is the functional foods approach for the person who needs convenience and nutrient dense foods. Going to the gym is great for the person who likes to be with like minded people.
Doing competitive sports is another way, concentrating on one thing you truly love and gets you motivated.
Yes, you do need supplements. I know this unequivocably. Man has damaged our earth beyond its capacity to replenish fast enough, the nutrients that we all require for health and logevity. If we all were so fortunate to be able to grow our own food, knowing that we are able to supply the soil with all the proper nutrients, as our forefathers were able to do, by allowing the earth to regroup and re-establish itself, we could just eat whole foods. It doesn’t work that way today.
I pretty much eat organic, raw, free range, pastured whole foods. Even then, I know I need to supplement. Some days I just can’t get all the green food and fiber I need. I must find an alternative way . Functional foods is a great way to do that and taking some vital supplements. It is easy and convenient.
Please, let’s not quibble about our human lives. It is much too precious. Let’s instead, group together, changing the FDA, big Pharma, corporate dairy and feed lot companies, that try to ‘cram this garbage’ down our throats. Lets work together to protect our choices, which inevitably affects our liberties, for health, wealth and the pursuit of each person’s happiness.
As a certified health coach, I am facing these questions and choices everyday, and will fight for anyone’s right to make the best choice for their lifestyle, and inevitably their health.
11:03 pm on January 8th, 2008
Dear Kevin,
I definitely agree with you! People get too involved in their own individualistic, everyday situations and points of view and focus in on the details instead of the whole.
I live in Italy and I do encounters to help empower women and they don’t always see the wide scope. I also teach healthy living and I sell natural vitamins too. I believe 100% in the vitamins I promote because I’ve taken them for years and I know what they do. I could never sell anything to anyone that I didn’t use myself. People may sometimes think I promote healthy eating and living just to market my vitamins, but that’s not the point.
First of all,if I can help someone by giving them information that people usually don’t volonteer to give you, then why not guide them to the best vitamins that I know of instead of keeping my mouth shut knowing that if they have no alternative information they’re going to wander into a supermarket and pick up that costs less and somthing that the FDA says is ok (which is probably not going to be natural)!
Second, I wonder why it is that people think it’s ok to help others but not to make money doing it. It’s as if selling a simple multivitamin at the end of a seminar is like “something up your sleeve”! Wouldn’t you be glad, after receiving new information, that someone would direction you to where you could buy the best product to help heal your body?
It seems to be a very common belief that one shouldn’t earn a lot of money when dealing with holistic nutrition and healing. It’s a cultural thing. It’s almost as if it’s a sin! They certainly DO listen to the FDA though!
People like you, Kevin, who desire to guide and teach others will always, from time to time, come across diffidence, but that means you’re on the right track! Joan of Arc said, “If you love me, you’ll follow me.”, and she never looked back.
12:29 am on January 9th, 2008
the whole concept of attack, kill, exterminate, obliderate, etc. is a dominant societal competitive notion that is linked to the persecution of inspired healers throughout history. modern day sports fans are clearly of this mentallity, every bid as much as the romans who threw christians to the lions as a sport/entertainment. it is my view that all this sick thinking is correllated w/ irritable bowel syndrome, or simply put glutton eating habits.
interestingly, I agree that supplements have been largely abused by many & that an ideal hygienic naturally masticated food intake in proper proportions coupled w/ occaisional all water fasting when needed remains the ideal.
I do not know Patric from Adam here, but please let’s be a little more professional, objective, & respective here, as Kevin has requested, as well. Thankyou.
Best Always, Jim
2:39 am on January 9th, 2008
Hi everyone!
From my own practice I know that there are different situations in life. Like I for example normally don’t use any supplements but there are situations when food you prefer to eat are just not available then supplements can be very helpful and it is great to know what others recommend. And also nothing is absolute, there will never be one system or one diet for everybody. That is why I like Kevin, he tells us all the interesting things he finds out.
I happen to follow a spiritual path and to have Guru. So I can tell you that Kevin are nothing like that. He is more like a good friend. You don’t need to agree with him all the time but you can be inspired by his cheerful attitude and good heart.
Thank You!
4:10 am on January 9th, 2008
Kevin! I love your open minded and fair attitude.
Supplements: Has anyone heard of muscle testing? Muscle test yourself and you won’t waste any money!! ITS THAT EASY!!! DON’T ASK THE GURUS… ASK YOUR OWN BODY WHAT IT WANTS… THE TRUE GURU
Love is what moves the structures of this world. Lets set up a massage booth for GMO scientists and while receiving our love talk in a co-conspiratorial way about the most fantastic of possibilities, licking and tickling their darling earlobes! We love everyone! yay! xoxoxo Au
10:51 am on January 9th, 2008
I have read many books and done much studying trying to help my 7 year old daughter recover from type I diabetes. I believe the largest helper is her vegetarian (we are not fully raw yet)diet, but there are a few vitamins and supplements that have proven extremely helpful with keeping her blood sugar in check. Because at this time she must still use injected insulin she has many toxins entering her body(check out the ingredients in insulin-such things as metacresol that is used in the manufacture of explosives) and often needs to cleanse. There is a limit to what a 7 year old will eat willingly. Don’t get me wrong, she is a VERY healthy eater compared to other children her age. However, for example I have found echinacea very helpful when she needs to cleanse. She has gone over a year now without so much as a cold. I contribute this to both diet and supplements.
Also I would like to mention that many times I read about certain supplements such as MSM, but some authors don’t tell you which brands are safe and beneficial. I do appreciate Kevin mentioning supplements that he beleives in and are beneficial in his experience. I look for this. Are there alot of sales pitches out there? YES! Do I buy things that I don’t want. NO!! Thanks Kevin. Keep up the good work.
2:08 pm on January 9th, 2008
Dr.Trudy
Firstly I commend you Kevin for your composure and willingness to rise above the slandering under the umbrella of Freedom of Speech which Patrick aimed to unsuccessfully dispaly.
Does Patrick realize that Modern Medicine is a direct spin off of the so called time tested old medicine? I think not! we are trained like old fashioned pysicins were trained at one time. When we go into poor countries abd treat the sick, we don’t have the luxury of MRIs, Utrasound, radiographs etc., thus we had better not miss a beat when we examine, auscultate, palpate, heat and sound etc. The treatment protocols consist of yes ‘SUPPLEMENTS’.Phytotherapy/Herbs/Homeopathy/Acupuncture/Lab Work Ups/Chriopractic, in clinic testing, and the list goes on. Where does he think pharmaceuticals com from? Herbs of course. They are /were the blueprint of today’s drugs. 39 some percent of drugs are still derived from herbs as they are too complicated to synthesise in chemical labs. Vincristine, Vinblastin for Burkitt’s lymphoma are just two such examples. Cardiovascular pharmaceuticals are derived from herbs…….!
I could spend hours explaining why Patrick is wrong and consumed by info, which is FALSE. Do we need supplements…YES!!! Why? Check out the numerous studies out of the UK, to mention but a few, which specify the importance and reasons as to why we need supplements. Each person is biochemically an individual, thus the needs are different for every person. Careful investigation should determine what a person’s needs are thereby showing individual deficiencies. How is this done? Through an integrated medical approach, called a multi disciplinary/medical/integrative approach.Careful investigation,individual symptamotology, in clinic lab work ups and lab work ups which are sent out.
With the way we have tampered with our most important life sources, earth, water and the food chain, it would stand to reason that we would be devoid of nutrients, it’s absorbtion and intra cellular activity due to the lack thereof.
I agree a team approach is vital, as we have solid clinical, double blind and duplicated peer reviewed studies which prove that such an approach proves to result in encouraging results and an improved state of health.
Do the Scriptures teach nutrition? Absolutely. Do we honor our temple the way we should? No we don’t. Does the Creator have the final say? Absolutely. The choice is ours.
Thank you Kevin for your invaluable work in helping the sick, the ailing and the broken. Know that you and your work is much appreciated.
Blessings
Dr. Trudy
2:14 pm on January 9th, 2008
Some of the comments seem repetitive but as I read I find some profound, spiritual, and interesing comments that apply to life as a whole. Cool. Smiling.
8:31 pm on January 9th, 2008
Kevin,
I appreciate your website. Instead of engaging in patterns of opposition that are so common in our world, we should take into account the massive research that you and others have done. We should that information to make informed decisions that work best for each one of us. If someone can get by with no supplements and still be physically, mentally, emotionally, and spiritually/energetically well, then so be it. If someone is well partially due to the consumption of supplements, then so be it. We each walk our own paths, and we each do so to the best of our ability in the moment.
11:29 pm on January 9th, 2008
To Allison I have to say, what she offers as an explanantion in the realm of a reply, could well be perceived to be ‘control’. Team members are a great deal more than YES MEN!!! It takes exactly what she explains to be individualistic to ‘make a team’. A chain can only be as strong as it’s weakest link. A team consists of people who have varied opinions and bring to the table, what results in SUCCESSFUL and HELPFUL solutions for the ailing, the sick and the broken. This you seem to offer with a genuine, selfless and spirit filled approach for the asking and on their behalf.
I wish you continued Godspeed Kevin and may your heart stay as trender and sincere as you’ve displayed thus far.
Blessings
Dr. Trudy
11:49 pm on January 9th, 2008
Hey Kevin,
Sorry to hear your’ed having a hard time,but we all have karmic debt and what doesn’t kill us makes us stronger. You seem pretty much alive to me, and this Patrick thing seems alot like sour grapes to me. Money comes and goes and many people have alot of issues around it especially when coming from a place of fear. I personally use superfood supplements in my raw food diet and miss them when I run out. We are all unique and have differnt needs on all levels, and have a responsibility to ourselves to find what those specific needs are. Patrick is entitled to his own opinions, but he has some lessons to learn around how he goes about expressing them. Much good energy, love, laughter, and light to you. All good things.
Angel blessings,
Maria
1:36 am on January 10th, 2008
I’m with you Kevin. Keep up the great work and thanks for reminding Patrick and the rest of us that we’re all on the same side here.
Bill Vogel
2:51 am on January 10th, 2008
Well, as much as I disagree with Patrick, I do agree to an extent. I too, feel that a lot of times the supplements and things all come down to the bottom line – $$$$. But for me it’s more of which supplement should I really buy? What’s going to help the most? This person or company says one thing, and this one says another. How do I know who to trust, and who to believe?
And by the way, the quote is not “money is the root of all evil”, it’s “The LOVE of money is a root of ALL kINDS of evil.”
The whole thing says “But if we have food and clothing, we will be content with that.People who want to get rich will fall into temptation and a trap and into many foolish and harmful desires that plunge men into ruin and destruction. For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil. Some people, eager for money, have wandered from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs.” 1 Timothy 8-10.
(Any errors in that are all due to my typing, and not the fault of the bible)
So I just hope that none of us are too eager to get rich. We just want to have enough money to pay our bills and buy our food, and provide for our families, and I’m sure that both Kevin and Patrick would agree on that matter.
I appreciate Kevin’s information, because a lot of us don’t even know where to start to find information on health and supplements and excercise. So, thanks Kevin, for what you do. Most of us do appreciate your time, effort, and energy that you put into your research.Stay healthy, both physically and Spiritually. – Ang
11:36 am on January 10th, 2008
It is very true what you said Kevin,the most important aspect of his whole debate is that people who are concerned about their health and promoting a healthy life style should stick together and look at the bigger picture.
There are enough forces trying to undermine all the good work that goes on,especially the goverments and multi-nationals…how are we ever going to be able to go head to head with them if we are bickering amongst ourselves?Its just not going to happen is it and also gives a foot hold for the none belivers to say ‘I knew it was all a load of rubbish’!!
Thats not what we want…so stop acting like children and act for the greater good!
12:40 pm on January 10th, 2008
***NOTE FROM KEVIN–THIS WAS CAUGHT UP IN THE SITE MODERATION, SO THE LAST 2 POSTERS DID NOT SEE IT
***
Hi Kevin/Everyone, Patrick here
I’ve just read through this topic; the original article and my comment, Kevin’s response and all follow up comments – 92 so far, come on I’m sure we can get it to triple digits!. I did post a brief response several comments back (Patrick on January 8, 2008 6:41 am). I must apologise in advance for the extent of my reply and any repetition/divergence, but I either post it now or in a few days when I can get time to edit it.
First, I would like to say that I stand by what I said in my original comment (subject to clarification in next paragraph), but wish that I had said it with more grace and perhaps less candour, although I think that the reaction to it shows a lot more about my critics than myself – who many have been happy to vilify. However, I stand suitably chastened for my uncongenial post, a lesson learnt and in future I will be more wary of expressing my opinion so forthrightly and without a jigger of rum to mellow my mood first!
Clarification of my original ‘off the cuff’ comment, otherwise known as back-pedalling, only joking … my issue with supplements arises when they are pushed as being desirable/necessary for just about everybody – ‘because we really can’t get what we need from our food these days’. I think they can be beneficial in extreme cases (severe illness etc), but using them as a crutch to support poor diet is, I reckon, not what natural health is about. Snake oil … OK, I concede this one to impulsive artistic license, some are, some aren’t.
I signed up to the first Raw Summit, almost 6 months ago, which is how I came to find out about you (Kevin) and this site – referred by one of your guests if I recall correctly. I enjoyed your interviews immensely, because you allowed full rein to your guests to speak and didn’t use it as a chance to preen your ego. I don’t know why you didn’t host the second series, but I found it far more commercialised and wondered if this was why you’d stayed away. In fact I got to hear only segments of some shows and had no inclination to pay to download them, which I had done with your series. I liked the fact that you didn’t inundate my inbox with superfluous emails, trying to get me to buy something.
This was why I was so surprised (after getting your pointer email) when reading your article ‘The 5 natural Sources for Holistic Nutrition’. This title was stretching things a bit and to be completely frank the article read more like a promotional piece that you’d find in a health magazine. At the end of the article was the offer for your ‘7 Steps to Optimum Health Program’, using the ‘time-limit’ marketing technique to sell it. This is, undoubtedly, a great way of increasing income immediately, which is the sole purpose. It has nothing to do with offering better value to purchasers. The way one does that is permanently drop the price, so that people can buy at a time when they’re ready and can afford it.
I have studied internet marketing and frankly I find most of it somewhat obscene. Almost the only purpose is to generate maximum sales/profit, for whatever product one is offering. It makes no consideration for whether the purchaser needs the product, or indeed can afford it. It is largely insidious, in as much as the individuals being targeted have no idea of what is going on, even though several posters on here have stated they are aware of what is happening. A few of the more blatant techniques used are: originate a list price that is ludicrous and then discount dramatically … offer bundles of ‘free’ additional ebooks (these are frequently freely available in any case) … write persuasive sales-letters that utilise well known formulae for turning a ponderer into a buyer … display attractive ebook covers for books that don’t physically exist and never will … create a time sensitive period for purchase at a discount, or a never to be repeated offer … These online courses and ebooks/recordings then often sell for quite staggering prices, way above those realised for the sale of hard copy versions.
One of the core objectives of knowledgeable internet marketeers is to build an email list, which is done by offering free product, subject to supplying an email address. This technique has just been used by the recent ‘12 Days of Fitness’ offer, under the guise of giving something for nothing, which was untrue. In nearly every case you had to ‘give’ your email address. The content available may have been useful, but that is not the point, the deception was in not explaining the real reason for the offer. A massively effective way for all those taking part to build their email lists, potentially gaining access to thousands of people who would never have found them otherwise. It leaves a bad taste in my mouth, particularly when it is portrayed so benevolently, as if all these companies/individuals are all heart. There were at least two alternative more honest ways to have presented this, the first to have genuinely given it away for free, no email required, the second to have explained what the deal was, we get you on our mailing list in exchange for our promotional line. In case anyone has any doubts, email lists are where the money is really generated from and are hugely important/valuable, so well worth flinging out some free product to gain new subscribers.
Several replies seem to have misinterpreted my comment about ‘making as many bucks as they can’. I don’t have anything against someone earning unlimited amounts (yes, I mean gazillions even!) and if they can do this in a business that is helping people develop, rather than just getting them to consume, then that’s wonderful. However, I have seen so much deceptive marketing in the Raw arena, where surely one might expect a slightly less profiteering outlook. So, to stress my point, I don’t expect people to work for nothing – unless that is their choice – in fact you can charge whatever you want, for whatever you want. I have worked for nothing and for $1,000s a day … more often next to nothing I admit!
I think this is all fine if purchasers know exactly what is going on, many do not. They see recommendations and then buy a product, the article is often written seemingly objectively, but with the purpose of selling the product, which may or may not be good. Purchasing from that site/affiliate as a result of that article, is different to going to an online store and browsing for the product you want, that maybe you saw mentioned elsewhere. My point is that I feel it would be more ethical to have a brief explanation, probably on the homepage, of one’s website outlining how things work.
Kevin, you say ‘I am different’, we all are, but then we all have many similarities.
I don’t believe that most would have deleted my post. I surmise that some would choose to ignore it, leaving it up to readers to make comment (which interestingly was negligible in response to your original article, but maybe that’s because of the cyber attack) and others might choose to reply, which you have done, all be it as a full-on piece rather than just in the original.
I wasn’t specifically calling ‘you’ a ‘guru’, although I don’t see that as being out of place in the loose terminology employed outside of the spiritual field. After all a guru is essentially a knowledgeable teacher, it doesn’t mean you have to give seminars and drive a Rolls Royce! Your blurb doesn’t shy away from your experience and ‘guru’ qualities and in any case I don’t hold any derogatory connotations to the word guru – one reader even went so far as to suggest it’s use was the raw equivalent of being homophobic, obviously living in a different world to mine!
I’ll confess I have a problem with the bit about being a ‘team player’, especially when it means not doing anything to upset the ethos of the team, even if it’s wrong. To me that is surrendering your self expression and leads to stagnation. Being a team player may be fine in appropriate circumstances, but not in everything and certainly not if it is to silence dissent. If we can’t discuss and disagree, then we truly give away our individuality. Besides, what is the point of being a winning team if you’re wrong!
It’s fine being a team player, if that’s where your inclination lies, but I think it is unreasonable to suggest that those who wish to be truly individual shouldn’t be. Some of the greatest achievements that stir the human spirit have been done by individuals, or very few, not teams.
I completely disagree with your suggestion ‘that we have to be on the same page at many levels’. Why? Who exactly is responsible for setting these standards that we all agree upon, so that we can consider ourselves one of the ‘health advocates’? We don’t have any definitive natural health blueprint, as is so obviously demonstrated by the fact that some people think we need supplements and others don’t. So who is going to give way on this one, or are we all going to pretend that everything is fine on the good ship ‘Natural Health’ and all the crew are happy to follow the orders of some captain?
I don’t relate to your suggestions of ‘posturing/egos/defensiveness’, expressing oneself is surely part of being who we are – until we reach a state of oneness, or whatever we’re headed to. Deluding oneself that one has no ego and has surrendered to the betterment of mankind is I reckon a pretty good indication that the ego has a firm grasp, a huge illusion that stops one really letting go.
To think that a discussion, on one of probably thousands of natural health sites, is somehow going to impact the natural health movement (whatever that may be) is a little over sensitive I think. In some ways when you’re saying ‘work with me here’, you’re just saying ‘agree with me, believe me, I’m right, everything would be fine on the planet if everyone tagged along’.
I do agree wholeheartedly though that ‘attacking’ is a waste of energy and that is why I wish I had made my observations more softly … lesson learnt
I’ll confess that the ‘let’s all be lovely and get on with each other without disagreeing’ idea sounds idyllic, but it is guaranteed to halt any further progress in development.
I believe that the whole ‘supplement’ issue verges on massive deception. If you really care about your health, then eat properly, if you don’t care then waste money on supplements and persuade yourself that it’s necessary. Make excuses about soil depletion, inability to get necessary food, having no time to eat whole foods, etc. This issue is rarely discussed, because the vast majority of Raw sites make money from selling supplements or cleverly packaged superfoods, either directly or by referral.
There are no ‘missing’ parts in your diet if you eat correctly, talking about holistic nutrition is a distortion of that to justify supplements and superfoods. Superfoods are an amazingly clever way to market overpriced products to people who might otherwise realise they can eat greens/fruits/seeds and be in perfect health, but of course there is no cash in being that honest. Some of the highest profile raw food advocates (won’t call them gurus!) do very nicely from the sales of superfoods, which of course they can’t speak highly enough of. Claims that the soil is deficient and our planet is unable to grow nutritious food suit the pushers of pills, potions and superfoods, it lets nobody escape the net. A food is not just the result of what is in the soil, many other elements come in to play and if you make the effort to eat organic/homegrown/local produce, then you won’t be deficient … spend your supplement money on buying better quality produce.
It is not difficult to eat healthily and in a balanced way when eating raw, the problems arise if you’re cooking your food. Green smoothies are an amazing powerhouse of nutrients. Why put dead green ‘superfood’ powder in your smoothie when you can put the real thing?
I made a reference to Tim VanOrden – http://www.runningraw.com – not my affiliate and I don’t benefit from telling you
who some of you may have heard on Raw Summit 2, if I recall correctly. He is by any standards an extraordinary athlete and realised that all the supplements he had been taking were doing nothing more than a sensible straightforward raw vegan diet did. You can see a short clip here http://revver.com/video/456232/running-raw-tim-vanorden-on-supplements where he succinctly explains the ludicrous claims by ‘health experts’ that we need supplements.
I realise that the essence of my mistake in slating supplements was that I assumed everyone’s motivation was to find perfect natural health, while it is obvious from the comments that many readers here are not actively practising a raw food diet and indeed many of those have no inclination to go that far. In which case all kinds of things can assist the body, including supplements, superfoods, herbal tonics, not to mention vitamin injections etc!
As this blog is obviously read primarily by those who would agree with you I’ll confess that I was surprised to read some comments seeing my viewpoint. I won’t go into all the individual comments, it would become boring reading I’m sure and also I don’t want to descend into a ‘slanging’ match with some of the more extreme posters. So a few general observations.
It was interesting that several people rebuked me for ‘attacking’ Kevin, even going so far as to suggest I need a supplement for my brain
and then displayed the exact same behaviour themselves. One supporter even suggested my comments were slander, which being pedantic is amusing as I never uttered a word 
Some of these comments appeared after my interim post offering my apologies for the impulsiveness of my post, so I can only presume they didn’t bother to read through the comments, or chose to ignore my explanation.
The funny thing is that reading my original comment now, it seems quite banal and inoffensive, by comparison to what it unleashed. In many ways your response is what unleashed the very negativity that many proclaimed to despise in my comment. People seem to have read your response and thus interpretation without actually reading what I said, there is something verging on the hysterical when I am accused of saying you are ‘a traitor to the cause’. I did no such thing, not least because there is no ‘cause’ in my mind.
Many assert supplements are essential, claiming their personal experience, qualifications (a qualification or profession doesn’t automatically make you right in that field), or scientific evidence as proof. If that’s what you choose to believe then fine, continue to do so. I choose to believe otherwise from my experience and am convinced that supplements can be helpful in a crisis situation, but are irrelevant if you actually eat properly.
Several replies state that they take supplements and they help, or provide sustenance that they wouldn’t otherwise get. Quite probably true, but all they’re doing is taking second hand goods, why not go for the direct and ‘complete’ source, with it’s myriad subtle parts of which we know nothing.
My concern was that people have been seduced into believing that supplements and superfoods are essential, when I implicitly believe they are not. This delusion is fortified every time a respected health advocate writes an article saying as much, the damage is multiplied when they claim to be advocates of a raw/vegan/natural lifestyle, as the reaction is to think ‘well, they’re way ahead of me in health and if they say it’s essential it must be’.
Typical of this is the huge mis-information about B-12 and many aspects of body chemistry. For example, what happens when vegetarians/vegans question why their bodies cannot survive without B-12 supplements, when they understand that mankind is non-carnivorous? They are told that things are different now, we are too hygienic, we don’t get the bacteria we got before from eating dirty veg etc. Well, if you want to believe all that then buy the supplement, or cheaper would be to eat a teaspoon of dirt a day. It’s all fantasy, not fact … but then that doesn’t keep the supplements business rolling. Keep people fearful and in ignorance and they’ll do anything, like inject they’re newborn babes with toxins … but that’s another topic
I was not intending to say that supplements and healing remedies don’t work in specific situations, I was trying to make the point that they are not part of a natural ‘holistic’ diet, which the article was suggesting.
After reading your response my first reaction was to wish I had never posted my comment, then to blame myself for being unkind, then to realise the benefit that came, it has shown me a few things and maybe will be of help to some others. So maybe the ‘easy’ path is not always the most beneficial
To precis my original comment, I stated that; I was wrong in my assumption that you worked differently to others – which is a fair comment; ‘hidden’ marketing techniques are prolific in the Raw arena – correct again and used by yourself, though not as forcefully as many; supplements are totally unnecessary – a matter of opinion, so obviously the debate goes on.
Your response ‘rallied the team’ to support you, but actually did little to respond to the points I brought up. It portrayed yourself as an unjustly injured party and myself as an unjustified antagonist, which seems somewhat extreme when looking at what I actually wrote.
Finally … relief all round … possibly contrary to what you’re thinking, I don’t think there was ill intent here at all and I do respect what you do Kevin. My comments above about a lot of what goes on in the health/internet arena are not specifically aimed at you, so please don’t take them too personally. We can maybe just agree to disagree
We all like to believe that we are right, but actually none of us are, we’re all learning and developing. Today’s truth is tomorrow’s falsehood, a well used phrase that happens to be true … but maybe false tomorrow, who knows?!
In peace and love
Patrick
And for those who wonder exactly what my qualifications are … none! I have spent many years searching for answers to many things. My inclination was to set up a website/business on raw food, but I have realised there are other avenues that I feel are more appropriate at the moment, but still internet based. This is why I have studied and spent considerable sums (for me) on how to operate an internet business. It has taught me something invaluable, I will never indulge in the tactics that guarantee success, if it involves what I see as dubious means to get there. I despise the ‘formula’ sales letters that coerce you into buying something. They are without a doubt effective (I have even succumbed!), which is why they are rampant throughout the internet, but they have nothing to do with integrity of business practise. I will want to build up a mailing list, but will be completely open about my intention. I will, quite possibly, sell product that I wholeheartedly feel is beneficial by affiliate referral, but with full disclosure and the opportunity for purchasers to do so without using my affiliate link. I will not make special offers for time sensitive periods to get people to buy – apart from anything else I would find myself vexed if the product I had bought last month as a good customer was now being offered to anyone who stopped by at half the price … this is very different from the ‘Sales’ that occur in high street stores.
2:39 pm on January 10th, 2008
Hi Kevin! There are obviously a number of issues here. Please bear with me while I go “Forensic” for a moment!
First of all, I don’t know Patrick. But, I do know you. I think you do an extraordinary of organizing and presenting information of the highest degree for your subscribers and readers. I believe your intentions are righteous and that you serve a valuable purpose.
That being said, let’s take a look at some of the possible dynamics put in play by this recent controversy!
I don’t know if the opinion Patrick expressed is a knee-jerk reaction to the information you presented or the result of a threatened paradigm based upon a life-long search for truth associated with some expectation that was not met?
None-the-less, it would certainly be easy to attack Patrick for his opinions and leave it at that,since they appear to be an emotional reaction to a challenged belief system. They also appear to be rooted in some form of insecurity revolving around issues like the need to be right, the need for approval, or a need for control.
Anyway, I totally understand his frustration and was actually onboard with his rant until he presented his conclusions. Unfortunately, there is no defense for this opinion, as it is simply untrue, unsubstantiated, misleading, and somewhat fanatical.
But, it is his opinion. Why he chose to couch it in this vicious attack is certainly grist for the mill of the bloggers.
But I believe there’s a greater dynamic that needs to be addressed here.
As you know, I’ve spent the last 35 years developing protocols for resolving chronic health-care issues for close to a million people. As you also know, my experience dictates that imbalances and deficiencies can occur in anyone of the three realms of the human matrix e.g.,(physical-biochemical and psych-emotional-spiritual) An imbalance or deficiency in any one can cause symptoms that can often be difficult to associate with a cause.
In order to navigate this delicate web it is often helpful to have an objective baseline and some tools to guide us through the process of differential diagnosis.
This is why and how I developed the Matrix Assessment Profile. Health, healing, and disease are contextual. They involve a multitude of influences and possibilities.
Often times the symptoms associated with chronic disorders are rooted in nutritiional imbalances and deficiencies that can be managed (long-term) by dietary alterations.
It is rare, however, that an active symptom complex associated with chronic imbalances and deficiencies – can be be remedied with just diet alone. Often, there is a need for therapeutic intervention with pharmaceutical grade neutraceuticals – as evidenced by the numerous case histories on my site.
There are several caveats that I use to maintain objectively and focus when attempting to nurture someone through this process. A few of them apply to the issues we are dealing with in this dialogue.
First, THERE ARE NO PANACEAS! This is probably self-explanatory, but it includes “RAW FOODS”. I’m sure everyone reading this site is familiar with the prominent literature that suggests the problems with the food chain at this time in history.
Simply stated, if it’s not in the soil, it’s not in the food. If it’s not in the food, it’s not in the diet. If it’s not in the diet it’s not in the body. Since the body’s supply and demand mechanisms rely on raw materials in the form of nutrients to maintain normal function, repair and regenerate – perhaps a more reasonable position would be that supplements may be indicated in some cases. Then we could all move on to making decisions about viable sources of reputable supplement manufacturers who provide effective products to meet this need.
Next, EVERYTHING WORKS, but – everything works most effectively when it is applied to a specific set of circumstances for which it is most indicated. (Ever tried to resolve bronchial pneumonia with a celery stick?). All medications are not bad and all Doctors are not bad. Sometimes these people and things are necessary to resolve a particular situation. The problem is relying on them to solve all problems without attempting to restore from the point of cause. So, it’s the indiscriminate use and abuse – not the use in general.
Finally, WHEN, ALL YOU HAVE IS A HAMMER, EVERYTHING LOOKS LIKE A NAIL. I think this is where Patrick fell off the wagon. Of course, he obviously has a powerful belief in the opinion he expresses. Had he stated, “Supplements are totally unneccessary (FOR ME), I think we could have let it slide. But, when this type of opinion is offered up the ultimate Dr. God-Like statement and linked to the partial truth at the end of his opinion (“in fact can interfere with the body’s ability to absorb the very thing they’re meant to provide”), it becomes decpetive, destructive and potentially harmful for the vast majority of people seeking solice, inspiration, and direction.
At any rate, I hope this helps to clarify and unite – rather than to provoke a divisive dialogue. I think you do a great job and would encourage you to learn from your reaction to these comments – how valuable your efforts are and keep doint it!
Much love,
DRD
7:20 pm on January 10th, 2008
Patrick brings up an interesting issue, but your response was not very enlightening: be a team player, don’t ask questions, follow the raw food crowd. Well, the raw food crowd these days are newcomers who are not very healthy and usually overweight as well. If you don’t believe me, just go to a rawfood potluck and see for yourself. Do supplements help them? Perhaps. However, those of us who have been long-time raw fooders, exercise regularly, and are in excellent health will find the supplements and so-called superfoods to be a waste of money. I am most critical about the idea that raw chocolate is often considered a superfood, even though it contains caffeine. People are spending big bucks on foods which aren’t even good for us. They are easily swayed by those who are in the business of selling such foods. We have to be wary.
I hope Patrick will respond to the many concerns he has raised. And yes, I also admire Tim on runningraw.com, especially because I am a marathon runner.
12:08 am on January 11th, 2008
Thank you Kevin for your voice of reason.
There is so much to learn about our bodies and the ways they utilize nutrients, as well as the bio-available forms of the nutrients, and our individual body needs. We should be sharing both the past and evolving body of knowledge in a spirit of harmony. There’s too much to study it all for yourself, so we need each other to research, study, synthesize, report.
Then each person has the gift of free will. Each person knows his or her own body. Each person makes his or her own choice.
I know my body’s vulnerabilities. I read “enlightened” doctors and research reports about the combinations of nutrients my body might need for certain circumstances… which forms to avoid (e.g., certain forms of calcium molecules actually bond with calcium in the bones and leach it, not augment it, and the calcium-magnesium balance is as important as the calcium itself if not moreso!)… what is available in foods.
I read years ago the summary of the Dept. of Agriculture report presented to the Senate in or around 1940 stating that our farmlands were depleted of some essential minerals. Well, that tells me something about “supplementation.” It’s up to me to decide how.
Personally, I like “superfoods” as part of my regimen, to get the mega-doses of certain things I cannot get from an otherwise health-conscious diet. Things such as Mona Vie (19 fruits and berries, finest processes, I get it through http://www.thegreatproduct.com/mymonavie )… freshly grind my golden flax seed and use it with cottage cheese or yogurt (for the co-factors)to get more omega-3′s and some other things than a bundle of fish or broccoli, etc…. and Sea Silver for essential amino acids, trace minerals, and such that my diet cannot provide sufficiently.
But that’s all my individual choice. You might not like it. You have a right to your choices. And I, for one, want to hear your analyses and choices… because I just might learn something. There just might be something you are doing or avoiding that I will want to adopt for my own health.
So I agree. Let’s stop fighting. Let’s just SHARE and support each other. Like opinions about anything else, everyone has one.
As the slogan said in the 1960′s: “Make love, not war.” We are to be a community, not a slaughter house! We’re here to help and nurture each other….
http://homehealthcarebooks.com
10:49 pm on January 11th, 2008
speaking for myself only….
Daily Joint-specific supplements = ability to comfortably walk & support myself on an advanced degenerative hip (@300#)
No supplements = Total hip replacement 2 years ago when diagnosed; a route *not* followed
Do I KNOW these supplements work?? YES YES YES since *experimenting* last year two months DRY, and an extended Sunday bike ride leading to hiplock & 8 weeks on crutches w supplements again to regain pain-free mobility.
Just my 2c
(FYI: glucosamine, MSM, silica, collagen, microlactin, hyaluronic acid, boswellia serrata, serrazimes, avovida, quercetin, OIL OIL OIL and more OIL [fish/wild salmon/krill])
12:57 am on January 13th, 2008
Your post about supplements got me interested in really finding the truth about supplements. I know that most supplements that we are told to take are garbage, but don’t know how good some of the companies really are. So you have inspired me to learn what I feel is the truth myself, so then I can make whatever decision I want, be independent and work with the other playes on the team, so to speak, by sharing my thoughts on things. I believe that truth is whatever you want it to be. And I mean that very literally. Maybe the way I see blue isn’t quite how someone else sees it. If there were only one answer, that wouldn’t be very much fun would it.
And I thought that the products that you described are actually simply powerful versions of food, but have to be categorized as a supplement. Thanks for the information. I appreciate the time you must spend to send so many people so much information.
8:21 pm on January 13th, 2008
Thank you so much for your response, Kevin. I think you hit the nail on the head. Wow, I feel so inspired and enlightened by your post. You have responded with such a heightened vibration and brought up such an important point that is not only applicable to health “gurus” fighting health “gurus”, but people fighting people in general. I read a quote today from Esther/Jerry Hicks about how in religion for example, if we could just be excited about our religion instead of pushing against other religions and just focus on our religion, we could all coexist peacefully and have what we want. I am paraphrasing, but you get my drift I hope.
Many blessings to you. Look forward to reading your high vibrational posts, thanks for sharing and ELEVATING!
Amanda
2:34 pm on January 15th, 2008
Thank you Kevin for sharing Patrick’s latest superb post. Thank you for providing value informations.
3:04 pm on January 15th, 2008
First off I think that an email like this often comes from a heated moment and was really not meant as intently as most of these post imply. However, regardless of passion and or intent it has prompted quit a response to a long awaiting issue. And I’m not talking about supplements. I am talking about the cut throat battle of ego and recognition in the raw food community. I have started and maintained now for eight years the first successful and longest running raw food restaurant in the history of planet earth yet I don’t have any books out, claim to be a guru of any sort or post $10,000 articles in LA Times or NY Times on how great I am like many of the raw eateries that came in my wake. You see my website http://www.rawchefdan.com and my restaurant, Quintessence are not about me or the restaurant. It is about sharing the good will, good karma, good news and good food available to us if we choose to eat better and be healthier. Most of the other raw restaurants are not 100% organic or even hold true to the guides of raw food nutrition. It is usually a chef or a group of people who want the recognition they think a restaurant will bring them. Just the same as I have posted in my blog many times the fact that many of the new “gurus and teachers” popping up have spent a week at Ann Wigmore and are now writing books and teaching “certification” courses.
If you search out those who really know what they are talking about and have the years of study and knowledge to back them up you will find they do not call themselves gurus. These people also do not find good affiliate programs and then promote whatever that company sells. In most cases a health consultant or a raw chef like me will discover things that have worked very well for them and sought out an affiliate program or distributorship with those products. I have been to many of the alternative health trade shows like the New Life Expo and was attracted by so many people with there multilevel marketed products it make me feel like the intention behind the product has been compromised. I felt sticky and gooey when I left and went straight home to take a shower. Needless to say I don’t go to the expose anymore. Many websites I feel are the same. Very few raw food or living food sites are created to help a person with support and guidance in their time of discovery and transition. Most are product sites with the only free information crafted to sell their products. I am not saying there isn’t a need for such sights and if I need macca powder then hey great for maccaweb.com or Naturalzing.com. But what I love about Kevin (and my site of course) is it is set up to provide people with support; real practical news, information and in my case anyway instruction. In our own experience there is now way for us to be completely unbiased because what we find works for us or what we discover that is good we like to share. That is really where most true alternative health teachers and consultants come from; “Hey I had great luck with these pro-biotic and I want to turn you on to it.” If you want to know who you should listen too and trust I suggest Kevin’s teleseminars as these are the cream of the crop. Gabriel Cousins has had a real live working clinic treating thousands of real live patients for decades getting real life results. Doug Gram, Nomi Shannon, David Wolf (a bit of a salesman but incredibly knowledgeable) do let that get away from you, Yashpaul, Viktorus Kulvinskas, Dr Fred Bisci… Go with the greats, the ones that have been around for 10yrs plus and you will not be swindled. And if they are selling a supplement it is because they have found that it works for the application in which they offer it to you.
3:09 pm on January 15th, 2008
Thank you Kevin for sharing Patrick’s latest superb post. Thank you for all the value information and links.
My believe is that the best to do, for anybody who feel, or believe, or think and is sure that he’s missing some element of his needs, is to go closer to the source. It is a source of aboundance. Let us achieve the shape where we are able to use it well.
Peter
3:28 pm on January 15th, 2008
Many opinions here, just as many facts. Bottom line is: What works for you? We all have varied needs and desires. I like the SAD (standard American diet)comment – THAT is the real reason Americans are in the health predicament we are in now and have the need to search for anything will make us feel better, good and bad supplements included.
I was so pleased to actually hear 2 politicians in one of the debates answer the “health care crisis” question with the (approximate) answer that “Americans need to change their lifestyles, begin eating healthier, and become more active so that we don’t get to the point of poor health in the first place.” What a breath of fresh air from all the insurance/pharmaceutical/hospital reform.
Sadly, what sort of major revolution would have to take place for this to happen? It was probably just political rhetoric when you begin to consider the ramifications of how large of an impact would occur if Americans truly changed their diets. If you want to talk about making money, ask the producers of the pharmaceuticals/supplements who also produce the antibiotics and hormones which are fed to the cattle/pigs/chickens/farm raised fish/etc to change their way of thinking and promote whole foods instead. Ask the corn farmers who grow corn for cows to eat (and make sick so they need the antibiotics)to stop growing corn for livestock and grow a crop for the health of humans. All of this is what makes Americans sick so that they need the supplements and drugs. I can’t begin to imagine the economic impact of this sort of revolution, can you?
As for eating, we are all entitled to what makes us feel great. Raw or cooked, it’s not all black and white. Read this recent discovery about broccoli:
“…University of Illinois researcher Elizabeth Jeffery has learned how to maximize
the cancer-fighting power of broccoli. It involves heating broccoli just enough
to eliminate a sulfur-grabbing protein, but not enough to stop the plant from
releasing an important cancer- fighting compound called sulforaphane.The discovery of this sulfur-grabbing protein in the Jeffery lab makes it possible to maximize the amount of the anticarcinogen sulforaphane in broccoli.
“As scientists, we learned that sulforaphane is maximized when broccoli has been
heated 10 minutes at 140 degrees Fahrenheit,” said Jeffery. “For the consumer,
who cannot readily hold the temperature as low as 140 degrees, that means the
best way to prepare broccoli is to steam it lightly about 3 or 4 minutes–until
the broccoli is tough- tender.
Jeffery’s research will be published in an upcoming issue of Phytochemistry. She
is a professor in the Department of Food Science and Human Nutrition at the U of
I.”
I too am frustrated with being inundated with information overload. We know so little and can learn so much more. Kevin is right, we should be a team. We are more knowledgeable about detrimental diets and are just beginning to understand what constitutes a beneficial diet. It is a journey. If supplements help you take them. If you feel great without them, don’t take them. The most important thing we can do is continue to share the knowledge.
8:40 pm on January 15th, 2008
Wow.
That’s about all I have to say about this post. It’s fascinating that even though affiliate marketing is a legitimate business, so many people can be angry about being referred to another person’s product.
We’re all adults. Whether you’re in the natural health field buying supplements or garlic, or in insurance buying Identity Theft Protection, or traveling around the world buuying calling cards, it’s always up to you to decide if the person you’re taking the advice or referral from is the person who you should be trusting.
And, it’s important to remember that people make mistakes. People can make mistakes in what they refer you to.
Kevin, I’m sure you do an extremely thorough job before sending someone along to a product, but even you could make a mistake in what you refer someone to. (I’m not saying you ever have, I’m just saying that it’s possible, and people need to understand that.)
To those who are complaining about affiliate links… stop. It’s like saying that ABC, NBC, or CBS are wrong for running advertisements on their stations for products that are endorsed by celebrities (or not even endorsed by celebrities) because they’re forcing you to buy their products…
When you’re looking at something online, use the same judgement you would as anywhere else. And if you don’t know whether something is good for you or not, do what you should always do anyway, and get a second opinion.
People always make decisions based on the information or feelings they have at the moment of purchase. If your feelings are somehow being influenced by someone’s compelling referral, it’s your job to be aware enough of what’s happening to know that you should do a little more research.
Kevin, thanks for doing all the amazing things you do.
I know you’re not a “guru”, but you’ve found a way to serve the many, and service to many leads to greatness.
Jonathan
http://www.affiliateadvice.us
9:51 pm on January 16th, 2008
What people refer to be a portrayal of a ‘GURU’ is in fact called a ‘BIO’ or ‘CV’. We each have one.
Blessings
Dr. Trudy
5:59 pm on January 20th, 2008
Wow! It took me a week but I read all these replies. I was intrigued by what was started by one man’s differing opinion. But originally by Kevin’s mature original response. I found a couple things interesting in all these posts.
1) That most people were offering their differing opinions.
2) That some were aggressive and somewhat abusive in their response
3) Yet MOST were respectful and tried their best to be kind
I believe most of us in offering our opinions at one time or another have falen a little from grace.
What I have respected in the past couple of years of watching Kevin is his ability to see when he has yet some refining to do in his own growth and being so humble as to say it.
I also respected that Patrick also showed some humilty in his admitting that he could have said things with a different tone.
These I believe are the main things that can be learned in all this. RESPECT, KINDNESS, PATIENCE.
I understand the point that Patrick is making yet, unfortunately there are those of us who live in climates where it is very difficult (not entirely impossible)to find or grow good produce year round. Then, we have to make an educated decision as to where and how we will keep the proper nutrients in our diets.
This is something that has plagued me for the past couple of years to the point that my health has taken a backward turn. So anytime that I can get reliable opinions, such as Kevin’s original blog that started this whole thing, I appreciate it and with a sound mind am able to decide wether or not to impliment any or all of the advice into my life.
Several times in the reading Kevin’s replies I have thought, “this is someone I would like as a friend” I don’t think that way very freely.
One of those times was his response to a question about how to eat while vacationing or eating out with friends. His balance, honesty and candor was heart-warming and empowering for me.
This is the same balance I find in people like John Robbins. Which is why I can read information they give and feel free to act on it or not act on it without any guilt or defense. Yet I never question their honesty and credibilty.
For that I thank them.
With all respect and sincerity,
Lana
2:56 am on January 22nd, 2008
Wow, I find the whole raw foodie movement to be a bit fanatical. I’m always left feeling like it’s being shoved down my throat.
I do however feel that raw foods are an important part of a balanced diet, and that supplements are needed by most people because of the problems that so many of you already cited.
I appreciate being able to find information about various foods and supplements, and where to buy them if I want them.
Like Robert Ringin posted about finding a solution for his prostate problems. I would think that anyone with a similar problem would like to know more.
A couple of people have mentioned how supplements have helped them, and one in particular said that their skin looked better. I have had the same results. I tried knocking out the supplements, and realized that was not smart!
Somehow food became controversial. I guess I ask what would Jesus do? He ate beef and fish. The only thing God prohibited was pork because it was unclean – and even that was later modified. The Bible consistently teaches moderation in these areas.
But it also teaches that if someone else beleives that it is unclean, then you should not try to persuade them away from their belief, you should respect it and not eat the food in question in their presence.
So while I might think that the practice of burying your plate in the backyard because it had meat and milk on it is a bit over the edge – to each their own.
The real crisis is that there are so many people that are not healthy, and we need to find a way to help them. Some will follow extremists, shock value sells – to a point. The majority aren’t budging yet.
I find Kevin’s style refreshing. He delivers the information rationally, without all the screaming and outlandish stuff that so many others are doing. A lot of the others, I just have to roll my eyes and click away – they get so ridiculous.
I consider it a great victory if we can just get people off packaged foods!
anyway – that’s enough for today.
Kevin – Thanks for delivering information in a common sense manner –
Carole
6:25 pm on January 30th, 2008
Kevin,
I think you might be taking Patrick’s response a bit too personally.
In anyway, trying to “unify” everybody under some kind of “banner” may be just another ego tactic.
Best regards,
Pavel
10:36 pm on July 8th, 2009
Kevin,
Thank you for being honest. It is brave to tell the truth about yourself as much as you do. By doing so you receive so much real love. Look at all the people who love and appreciate you just as you truly are. I feel very comfortable when I’m at your web site. I know you are doing your best to give helpful advice and present many ideas not just yours or some other one sided opinion. It is obvious you have helped and inspired many people with their health. You have me!
I love you both. What you do takes a lot of effort and I feel so happy to know you receive all you need to keep on givin and livin!
I called you once to sign up for a class but it filled up so fast. On your own you asked me questions about what I was wanting to do, and offered ideas and support for about 1/2 hour. All for free. I know the hours of free support you offer us are many, and I feel lucky to have found you.
May we all support each other!
Love, Love, Love,
Susan